[LP CYOA] 傳

[ERYFKRAD]

Guys, the Man-Tiger-Pig tournament is the clue. We must drop our pants, shock BJ and exploit the opening that offers.

 

[Nevill]

By the way, ERYFKRAD may be onto something here.

“Here, let me adjust this a bit… there.”

Bai Jiutian lets out a stifled moan before saying, awkwardly, “Thank you, shimu.”

“Tian’er, you are still a bit sloppy with your technique at times. Be careful it doesn’t come undone."

Hmmm... which option is the one that undoes the sash?

 

[Absinthe]

Jing had already gone into order mode when he launched the Vermillion Phoenix move, and that didn't exactly pan out well.

That's our only sword move that doesn't benefit from Order mode. Here is treave talking about our kenjutsu:

It wouldn't make the top five best sword techniques, but it's the sort that scales well with the user; in contrast to techniques that make the user powerful (legendary manuals etc), here it is the user that makes the technique powerful, if that makes sense. The moves in the Minamoto-ryuu style are ones that Central Plains pugilists have few counters for, so it's up to the user to make it count. 'Order' mode will help improve the first and second moves, and with the first part of the fourth move.

BJ is just a better swordsman than Jing is,

Sure. But better sword skills/technique isn't everything. For instance, our sword techniques are hard to counter.

a little perception boost wasn't about to make a massive difference in the fight

Going from 7 perception to 9 perception isn't little. That's a huge perception boost. Considering how Bai Jiutian has landed minor cuts with a deceptive technique, I think our high perception would negate some of his swordsmanship. Also, treave confirmed some time ago that with 7 int and 7 per (or high sword skill) we can start devising counters on the fly. Now we would have 7 int and 9 per with our 7 sword skill. Plus 3 of our sword moves benefit from the added perception, so yes I think the +2 perception does a lot to bridge the gap between Xu Jing and Bai Jiutian.

and it didn't as was demonstrated immediately afterwards, except for that at least Jing didn't get outright wounded for his efforts.

That was the one move that didn't benefit from order mode, though.

Yeah, we've landed a couple of attacks in at high risk to ourselves... the former he dodged and the latter he easily blocked, and that latter was more of a way to give us distance outside of the oppressive reach of his sword. He definitely outclasses us in the sword part of the match (who knows for the unarmed) and that's what the majority of the match will be unless we somehow manage to get rid of his sword, which I doubt is likely.

He was also able to easily block a stray Wuying Leipo Kick with ease as well as to dodge that palm technique. He has good stats and good technique, and we aren't getting past that sword of his very often or inflicting much damage when we do.

MTP was still trolling Bai Jiutian. We can do much better than that. Even a few unarmed moves can be enough to make Bai Jiutian lose. We have some extremely powerful techniques here. And I still think Jing has the better stats.

You don't need to ask about the agility at least.

Actually, we do. I doubt Bai Jiutian has 13 agility.

That's exactly what I'm saying. He's going all out to make us reveal our moves, if we don't reveal them he's going to vanquish us and start up some interrogation. He's already pretty sure we know the move, he intends to confirm it one way or another.

That doesn't make sense. Bai Jiutian wouldn't have any better way of making us admit to having the Wuxiang Qiankun skill than forcing us in such a dangerous fight. Face it, even if we lose with A2, Bai Jiutian would be swayed that we probably don't have the Wuxiang Qiankun, and that means his best hope of obtaining a legendary technique is to team with us against the Zhang family.

 

[Kipeci]

That's our only sword move that doesn't benefit from Order mode. Here is treave talking about our kenjutsu:

I've got that, but I don't see one point of perception making such a vast difference with the other moves that we begin to outclass the Bai Jiutian.

Sure. But better sword skills/technique isn't everything.

Actually being a better swordsman than BJ seems like it's a pretty good first step to beating him in a sword fight, though, and it's one that we're definitely not at.

Going from 7 perception to 9 perception isn't little. That's a huge perception boost. Considering how Bai Jiutian has landed minor cuts with a deceptive technique, I think our high perception would negate some of his swordsmanship. Also, treave confirmed some time ago that with 7 int and 7 per (or high sword skill) we can start devising counters on the fly. Now we would have 7 int and 9 per with our 7 sword skill. Plus 3 of our sword moves benefit from the added perception, so I think the +2 perception does a lot to bridge the gap between Xu Jing and Bai Jiutian.

We're already using the skill, you know, and BJ isn't exactly a slouch either with this stuff since he's countered excellently everything we've thrown at him. Being able to see his sword while it slashes around rapidly is a great boost, which is why we switched on over to the order mode, but we're just not fast enough to put up a complete defense, let alone switch into the offensive mode. If Jing's other moves are so super-boosted and broken from a bit of extra perception, why didn't he try using them instead of the Vermillion Phoenix move?

MTP was still trolling Bai Jiutian. We can do much better than that. Even a few unarmed moves can be enough to make Bai Jiutian lose. We have some extremely powerful techniques here. And I still think Jing has the better stats.

Ah, yes, we were trolling him by failing to land a hit and getting another one to be perfectly blocked. Excellent trolling. Keep in mind that while we're looking for any openings to use our fists he'll be looking for openings to use his sword, and if we just hit each other a few times over an extended match my bet is on the guy landing in sword blows. Jing already has minor injuries while BJ has blocked the only attack we managed to land on him, a little extrapolation here says that this probably won't turn out well. It won't matter if Jing has better strength and so on if he can't get past BJ's sword range to make use of it more than a couple of times, even assuming that he is superior there (looks can be deceiving, the Bandit Prince has strength about on par with or somewhat less than Jing's and he's definitely bigger and more muscled than Jing is) so even if it turns out that BJ has 7 base strength I wouldn't celebrate too much. Who knows what techniques he has to supplement that stuff, anyway?

Actually, we do. I doubt Bai Jiutian has 13 agility.

Well he seems to be keeping up pretty well with someone who has that after boosts are applied, right? Who knows how much of it is natural and how much comes from techniques, but in the end it doesn't matter what the exact composition is as the result is that he's gaster than us.

That doesn't make sense. Bai Jiutian wouldn't have any better way of making us admit to having the Wuxiang Qiankun skill than forcing us in such a dangerous fight. Face it, even if we lose with A2, Bai Jiutian would be swayed that we probably don't have the Wuxiang Qiankun, and that means his best hope of obtaining a legendary technique is to team with us against the Zhang family.

Maybe you just need more quotes.

“If you cared for Nie Wuxing’s approval, why did you ask to meet me in private then, away from Huashan? You could just have easily shouted out for help last night.”

“I could, and if you had not agreed to meet me here I would have. I needed to confirm one matter in private though, something that my shifu or shimu must not find out.”

He wants to talk with us privately about something of great importance, which from the context is about the legendary skill.

“…that is right,” he admits grudgingly. “But that only means I need to find ways to protect myself from them instead of relying solely on my shimu. So, let me return to my questions. What did you find in Tufan? I know you were there. Zhang Manxing reported your presence.”

“I found myself in trouble.”

“That is nothing new. Are you going to answer me, or do I have to force the truth out of you?” He seems serious this time: it looks like this is one question that he definitely wants an answer to. He likely selected this place so that he could fight you uninterrupted, too.

Jing is uncooperative about revealing the skill to him, as he expected, so he goes to his back-up plan of trying to fight Jing. His initial hope was that we could talk to him, that didn't work out, so he plans to "force the truth out" of Jing because this is too important for him to let us off.

“It was barely even a workout thanks to your distraction. Besides, if I let you go here, there is no telling when I will get this chance again.” He raises his blood-stained sword, pointing it at you. “Are you more willing to talk now?”

“Are you going to try and make me talk?”

“I cannot afford not to. My shimu already suspects a thing or two about you… even if you do not talk now, you are merely postponing the inevitable.”

If we lose, he's not going to decide 'whelp, that's it!' and walk off, he's going to hold us captive and try to force the information out of us. He's very certain that we know it, not using it won't convince him otherwise, so we may as well bite the bullet and legitimately beat him so that we can train the skill and keep him from trying to track us down and annoy us about this matter any further. This is something that he intends to keep to himself, anyway, as mentioned in the quote I provided some posts up.

Going with A2 won't make him a best buddy if we lose, he'll be angry at us for wasting his time when he knows that we know the technique and he'll try to draw the information out of us.

 

[Nevill]

Kipeci, you are going to another extreme. If he knows we know the technique, as you've put it, then there is no point in this spectacle.

He does not know. He only suspects.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Ah, voting D.

If we can get to that bag and hit BJ with it that would be ideal. I am not too sure about our chances to win in a proper fight.

Yeah, that'd be the best option. Of course, if (s)he turns out to be a he after all, Jing could get raped by an uber-horny swordsman. Or worse, end up having to give BJ a BJ to save his life.

 

[Kipeci]

Kipeci, you are going to another extreme. If he knows we know the technique, as you've put it, then there is no point in this spectacle.

He does not know. He only suspects.

True, I might have gotten a bit worked up there. Regardless, he said that the suspicion is high enough that he's going to detain us anyway, so the point in my argument there still stands that he's not going to let us go if we lose.

 

[Absinthe]

I've got that, but I don't see one point of perception making such a vast difference with the other moves that we begin to outclass the Bai Jiutian.

Two points, and while I don't think we'll outclass Bai Jiutian, I do think we'll be able to face him on a much more even footing and hit him with some of our outrageously powerful unarmed techniques.

Actually being a better swordsman than BJ seems like it's a pretty good first step to beating him in a sword fight, though, and it's one that we're definitely not at.

There are other ways though. If Bai Jiutian's sword technique is rank 9, then our rank 8 sword technique isn't exactly an insurmountable difference in skill.

We're already using the skill, you know, and BJ isn't exactly a slouch either with this stuff since he's countered excellently everything we've thrown at him. Being able to see his sword while it slashes around rapidly is a great boost, which is why we switched on over to the order mode, but we're just not fast enough to put up a complete defense, let alone switch into the offensive mode. If Jing's other moves are so super-boosted and broken from a bit of extra perception, why didn't he try using them instead of the Vermillion Phoenix move?

Ask treave. Anyway, for the most part, we only threw Vermillion Pheasant at him. Aside from that, we did manage to stop his sword with our scabbard, opening him up to our palm technique in the process, so I think Order mode does a lot more than you give it credit for.

Ah, yes, we were trolling him by failing to land a hit and getting another one to be perfectly blocked. Excellent trolling.

Jing was still dicking around for the most part where he dances around the opponent instead of going for a serious offensive. It's not the most effective thing against Bai Jiutian, but that doesn't mean Jing can't do better.

Keep in mind that while we're looking for any openings to use our fists he'll be looking for openings to use his sword, and if we just hit each other a few times over an extended match my bet is on the guy landing in sword blows. Jing already has minor injuries while BJ has blocked the only attack we managed to land on him, a little extrapolation here says that this probably won't turn out well.

Keep in mind that our Raging Claws of the Mad Lion style is bordering on ranged attacks and that we already managed to create openings for unarmed techniques. Also, those minor injuries occurred before we activated Order mode and landed specifically because "the speed of his steel is deceptive to the eye." I'm rather certain our new +2 perception solves this problem.

It won't matter if Jing has better strength and so on if he can't get past BJ's sword range to make use of it more than a couple of times, even assuming that he is superior there (looks can be deceiving, the Bandit Prince has strength about on par with or somewhat less than Jing's and he's definitely bigger and more muscled than Jing is) so even if it turns out that BJ has 7 base strength I wouldn't celebrate too much. Who knows what techniques he has to supplement that stuff, anyway?

High strength does matter, since it affects Bai Jiutian's ability to block our blows.

Well he seems to be keeping up pretty well with someone who has that after boosts are applied, right? Who knows how much of it is natural and how much comes from techniques, but in the end it doesn't matter what the exact composition is as the result is that he's faster than us.

Actually I'd say he's probably as fast as we are. It's just that huashan sword techniques make him look faster, possibly to mislead opponents, but our high perception helps us out there. Treave, can you confirm this?

True, I might have gotten a bit worked up there. Regardless, he said that the suspicion is high enough that he's going to detain us anyway, so the point in my argument there still stands that he's not going to let us go if we lose.

I don't see the value in that. Unless he knows we have Wuxiang Qiankun, he's better off pursuing the Xiaoming Jiuyang manual with our assistance than detaining us. If we already refused to use the technique in a dangerous fight, then we're not likely to submit to torture either, so detaining us is not even useful. I think your interpretation of this outcome is predicated on the assumption that there is no way Bai Jiutian would cooperate with us, but if that's the case then I don't think the option to come here like this would exist in the first place. Heck, treave says:

It would be easier to talk about such things when he isn't yet fully convinced you have the skill and might want to tease some information out of you to be sure. The both of you would have something to offer the other, making for a tense and strange but perhaps workable relationship.

So I think there is a very real chance he would work with us if we convince him we probably don't have the technique. To that end, I think A2 is our best bet here.

 

[treave]

Re: stats, you can't get a good feel for it with only a brief exchange of blows. You don't know how much of his speed is from technique though it certainly is difficult for you to handle even with increased perception. You also haven't gone in against him seriously yet, but your kick was thrown quite hard and he seems capable of blocking that without stumbling from the force. It's not one of your stronger kicks though, and those might have a more obvious effect if they land.

Not sure why you guys are arguing about techniques anyway when D will win.

 

[Jester]

Hmm get to corpse, take item "horny powder" use it on enemy. Run like fuck?

 

[XenomorphII]

A2

 

[Absinthe]

Re: stats, you can't get a good feel for it with only a brief exchange of blows. You don't know how much of his speed is from technique though it certainly is difficult for you to handle even with increased perception. You also haven't gone in against him seriously yet, but your kick was thrown quite hard and he seems capable of blocking that without stumbling from the force. It's not one of your stronger kicks though, and those might have a more obvious effect if they land.

Can you confirm whether A2 would result in an increase to our sword skill?

Not sure why you guys are arguing about techniques anyway when D will win.

Nothing is decided yet.

Hmm get to corpse, take item "horny powder" use it on enemy. Run like fuck?

We already have the five poisons powder on us, but our throwing skill is shit and unlike Zhang Manxing we don't have retarded luck to make up for our lack of skill. I don't see the appeal of D to be honest. If Zhang Manxing survives, it's Bai Jiutian who gets trouble, not us.

 

[treave]

Can you confirm whether A2 would result in an increase to our sword skill?

Can't confirm any skill boosts in this choice. That may be code for 'convince me it's deserved here', but you have no way of knowing before it's written.

We already have the five poisons powder on us, but our throwing skill is shit and unlike Zhang Manxing we don't have retarded luck to make up for our lack of skill. I don't see the appeal of D to be honest. If Zhang Manxing survives, it's Bai Jiutian who gets trouble, not us.

To be fair you don't need throwing skill if you're just scattering some potent powder over a short range with your hand.

 

[Grimgravy]

Horny powder: It's the new laxatives. Forget the Brown Bedding, we could cause the Epic Orgy Wedding or something similar. Picture something like the scene near the end of Perfume: The Story of a Murderer, but with Chinese people.

 

[Absinthe]

Can't confirm any skill boosts in this choice. That may be code for 'convince me it's deserved here', but you have no way of knowing before it's written.

Well, using the match against Guo Fu as an example: We got a +1 sword skill there in what was not a lethal fight against a rather powerful opponent for attempting to use our sword to fend off a very dangerous opponent and going up against the limits of our skill. If we go with A2, we're repeatedly pushing the limits of our ability with the sword against Bai Jiuitian who outskills us in what is primarily a sword fight where both of us are serious. Also, with our very high capacity for observation, we could also learn a thing or two from observing Bai Jiutian's movements and from our first-hand experience of his attacks. Factoring in the Jueshi Wugong Sword Song which makes it easier for us to improve our swordsmanship, I think it stands to reason that our sword skills should improve from an intense bout against a superior swordsman.

To be fair you don't need throwing skill if you're just scattering some potent powder over a short range with your hand.

Ah, fair enough. I still don't like D though because at the end of the day it sabotages our chances of an teaming up with Bai Jiuitian, which is what we came here for. I wouldn't call it a win to go back empty-handed.

 

[Kipeci]

Ah, fair enough. I still don't like D though because at the end of the day it sabotages our chances of an teaming up with Bai Jiuitian, which is what we came here for. I wouldn't call it a win to go back empty-handed.

You don't see the same thing happening from pointlessly fighting him over the matter when he says he's not going to let us go without some sort of interrogation to hear what we picked up in Tufan? He's bound to have it confirmed later, if we're going to commit the time to this technique to practice it and develop it into something truly badass-- if you're convinced that that's what'll turn him into an eternal enemy, it's going to happen sooner or later anyway so we may as well try to beat him now and dispose of him by using the technique.

I don't really want to kill him, I think we can develop a partnership if he knows we have the technique. He seems reasonably likely to keep this between us, if for no other reason than that he's suspicious of his fellows and doesn't want them gaining any more power over him.

 

[Kz3r0]

What is wrong with BJ? We just helped hiim get rid of a thorn in his side and he immediately decides to try to kill us?

Do you mean what's wrong with us treating himas an ally when he has clearly shown again and again that he doesn't like us and at best used us to get rid of his rivals.

 

[Kz3r0]

He's practical.

But I expected hugs!

 

[Absinthe]

You don't see the same thing happening from pointlessly fighting him over the matter when he says he's not going to let us go without some sort of interrogation to hear what we picked up in Tufan? He's bound to have it confirmed later, if we're going to commit the time to this technique to practice it and develop it into something truly badass-- if you're convinced that that's what'll turn him into an eternal enemy, it's going to happen sooner or later anyway so we may as well try to beat him now and dispose of him by using the technique.

First off, BJ finding out later still works out better for us. Right now if Bai Jiutian has reason to believe we have the Wuxiang Qiankun technique, he would probably decide it's easier to side with Huashan and get it from us than to side with us against the Zhang family and Huashan by proxy for the Xiaoming Jiuyang. If we give him reason to disbelieve that we have the Wuxiang Qiankun technique, his best lead would probably be the Xiaoming Jiuyang manual from the Zhang family. This means he would be operating against the interests of Huashan for his own sake. If he tries to turn on us later, he'd be in a worse spot for it. Also, the longer our enemies suspect that we don't have the skill, the better it works out for us because our whole crew would have more time to improve their skills.

That said, I think it is possible to really convince Bai Jiutian that we do not have the Wuxiang Qiankun technique. The first step is of course A2 to convince him that we don't have the technique right now: With Bai Jiutian confronting us as the superior swordsman and still not using Wuxiang Qiankun however much we get pushed, we indicate to him that honestly we really don't have it. The second step would be the Ten Swords conference at Taoying Island. Once we reveal that we are the wielder of the Yuchang Sword, Bai Jiutian would have reason to suspect that the unusual sword techniques we have been hiding were not in fact the Wuxiang Qiankun technique but instead secret sword techniques for our legendary sword. At that point, if we've been working with him, we can probably convince him we don't have the Wuxiang Qiankun technique until around the Huashan Summit which is basically where hell will break loose.

I don't really want to kill him, I think we can develop a partnership if he knows we have the technique. He seems reasonably likely to keep this between us, if for no other reason than that he's suspicious of his fellows and doesn't want them gaining any more power over him.

I'd prefer to build a partnership with him too. We do need all the help we can get taking on the Zhang family, and Bai Jiutian of Huashan would be in a very good position to get some good info. That said, when it comes to revealing the Wuxiang Qiankun technique, I don't think Bai Jiutian trusts or likes us enough to keep our secrets for us right now. Frankly, if he wants the manual (which he does), he'd pursue his leads, which means he would pursue us. Right now he would probably decide that we're the easier target than the Zhang family for a legendary manual. However, even though he is strong, he still cannot take on our whole party by himself (hell if Jing uses Wuxiang Qiankun, he might not even be able to take on Jing), so he would need assistance, which means Huashan. Huashan in turn might try to use some of their underground contacts or possibly the Zhang family. We don't need that kind of trouble down our necks. On the other hand, if Bai Jiutian obtains new reason to suspect that we honestly don't have the Wuxiang Qiankun technique, then his best lead for a legendary manual would be the Xiaoming Jiuyang manual, in which case he would have to side with us and it would be an arrangement of mutual benefit. To that end, I'd rather face him head on without using the Wuxiang Qiankun technique.

That's why I think voting A2 is our best bet at the moment. What do you think about this?

Azira, Kashmir Slippers, would you care to flop from A1 to A2? In the first case, I think if we really get such an upper hand over Bai Jiutian using the Wuxiang Qiankun technique, he would just run away and possibly call for help. Also, it sabotages any chances of cooperation. Right now it seems like our best solution is to fight Bai Jiutian without using our Wuxiang Qiankun technique. Not only do we fight him properly, he also gets to think that we probably don't have the technique, so if he'd want a legendary manual, it would be from the Zhang family, so he'd have to side with us. Also, delaying BJ from finding out we have the Wuxiang Qiankun technique is much better than him finding out now.

Tribute, if you want to get back at Bai Jiutian, I think A2 is the best option. If we get a solid upper hand with A1, BJ would probably run the fuck away and possibly call for help. At that point the only thing we succeed in is revealing that we really do have the Wuxiang Qiankun technique. Also, convincing him that we really don't have the Wuxiang Qiankun technique would go a long way towards protecting our party (and our party needs all the extra moments it can get to improve their martial arts). We might even convince him to work with us against the Zhang family (since his best lead for a manual would be the Zhang family - who hate BJ) and we could use all the help we can get.

Baltika9, ERYFKRAD, Ganymede, Grimgravy, Lambchop19, Fangshi, would you care to flop from D to A2? I don't think D is a winning option. The problem is that we came here to convince BJ to backstab Huashan and the Zhang family (who are much bigger threats than BJ is to us) and work together to obtain the Xiaoming Jiuyang manual (with a surprise discovery awaiting him if we ever point out that's actually the emperor's property). If we get D to work, we basically return empty-handed, and I wouldn't call that a win. I think it's much better to pick A2 because not only do we convince him that we probably don't have the technique (which would lower the heat on our party, I would call that a win), but we could even convince him to go after the Zhang family manual with us (After all, they would be his best lead on another manual, and he could only get help from us). At the same time, we get to kick his ass for being a cunt, so there are so many good things right now that even if we don't get everything I just mentioned, A2 will solidly put us ahead anyway. Besides, I think Zhang Jue would be disappointed if we ran away from Bai Jiutian right now. We have a duty to take him on, gentlemen.

Nevill, would you care to flop back from D to A2? Like I said, I don't think it's a winning option to walk away empty-handed, and it seems to me that if we vote D that's exactly what we'll do. We came here with an objective, so lets make good on that.

Esquilax, I know you've been following the conversation, would you care to weigh in?

 

[treave]

Well, using the match against Guo Fu as an example: We got a +1 sword skill there in what was not a lethal fight against a rather powerful opponent for attempting to use our sword to fend off a very dangerous opponent and going up against the limits of our skill. If we go with A2, we're repeatedly pushing the limits of our ability with the sword against Bai Jiuitian who outskills us in what is primarily a sword fight where both of us are serious. Also, with our very high capacity for observation, we could also learn a thing or two from observing Bai Jiutian's movements and from our first-hand experience of his attacks. Factoring in the Jueshi Wugong Sword Song which makes it easier for us to improve our swordsmanship, I think it stands to reason that our sword skills should improve from an intense bout against a superior swordsman.

Hm, about getting skill boosts from fighting tough opponents, not likely or common from just a single fight when you're already at 7 or 8.

I'll address the rest if you're interested in knowing the reasoning when the votes close in about 8 hours or so.

 

[Absinthe]

Huh, what about our 9 perception and the Jueshi Wugong Sword Song? Well, I'm interested in seeing the reasoning when the update appears.

 

[treave]

Yeah, I'll address that, but before that I'll remain on my previous stance that I can't confirm or deny any skill boosts at the moment.

 

[Kipeci]

First off, BJ finding out later still works out better for us. Right now if Bai Jiutian has reason to believe we have the Wuxiang Qiankun skill, he would probably decide it's easier to side with Huashan and get it from us than to side with us against the Zhang family and Huashan by proxy for the Xiaoming Jiuyang. If we give him reason to disbelieve that we have the Wuxiang Qiankun skill, his best lead would probably be the Xiaoming Jiuyang manual from the Zhang family. This means he would be operating against the interests of Huashan for his own sake. If he tries to turn on us later, he'd be in a worse spot for it. Also, the longer our enemies suspect that we don't have the skill, the better it works out for us because our whole crew would have more time to improve their skills.

Simmer down a little. He's already said that he wanted this answer from us without getting the rest of Huashan involved-- why else do you think he would invite us out to this secluded area rather than just calling for help at Huashan? There was more reason there for us to fight for our lives given that the master of Huashan would be present as an enemy as well as the rest of Huashan, the odds would be much more in his favor. If he intended to screw us over by calling for Huashan to help him out then he'd have done so already.

That said, I think it is possible to convince Bai Jiutian that we do not have the Wuxiang Qiankun skill. The first step is to convince him that we don't have the technique right now by accepting his challenge for a sword fight, and with Bai Jiutian confronting us as the superior swordsman, we still don't use it however much we get pushed.

I sure hope we'll able to withstand whatever interrogation he puts us through after he destroys us in a fight if A2 pans out, or that's a lot of waste for no reason.

The second step would be the Ten Swords conference at Taoying Island. Once we reveal that we are the wielder of the Yuchang Sword, Bai Jiutian would have reason to suspect that the unusual sword techniques we have been hiding were not in fact the Wuxiang Qiankun skill but instead secret sword techniques for our legendary sword. At that point, if we've been working with him, we can probably convince him we don't have the Wuxiang Qiankun technique until around the Huashan Summit which is basically where hell will break loose.

The 'unusual sword techniques' that we 'were hiding' was the formation technique used by those guys, the traces of which qi he found on their bodies... which he must have found if he has reason to suspect us of this copying technique. That has nothing to do with the Yuchang sword, revealing that we have that sword wouldn't allay his suspicions. During this time of working with him we couldn't work on upgrading that skill to keep him from becoming suspicious, which puts us in a worse shape for the Summit since it certainly won't be as developed as it could be if we were able to openly train it against a powerful foe in the form of him and keep on using it without worry of him finding it out.

Also, don't you think this is a little distant in the future for resolving his suspicions? His intention is to not allow us off the mountain until we reveal our secret, at what point do you think he'll just let us go so that he can be suspicious until the Huashan Summit?

I'd prefer to build a partnership with him too. We do need all the help we can get taking on the Zhang family, and Bai Jiutian of Huashan would be in a very good position to get some good info. That said, when it comes to revealing the Wuxiang Qiankun skill, I don't think Bai Jiutian trusts or likes us enough to keep our secrets for us right now. Frankly, if he wants the manual (which he does), he'd pursue his leads, which means he would pursue us. Right now he would probably decide that we're the easier target than the Zhang family for a legendary manual. However, even though he is strong, he still cannot take on our whole party by himself (hell if Jing uses Wuxiang Qiankun, he might not even be able to take on Jing), so he would need assistance, which means Huashan.

The Huashan that he didn't want involved in this. Isn't it a little stupid to specifically hold this away from the people he'd intend to call on for help if it turned out that his hunch was right? Unless he didn't want to involve them, as he said.

Huashan in turn might try to use some of their underground contacts or possibly the Zhang family. We don't need that kind of trouble down our necks.

Knowing that the Zhang family dislikes him, why would BJ make a move to empower the already overpowerful Zhang clan by getting them the manual? If they get involved you know there's no way that BJ's the one that ends up with it. Heck, expanding that to Huashan would more likely result in the master trying to monopolize the stuff or use it to get deeper in bed with the Zhang guys, which is probably why he didn't want them involved in the first place.

On the other hand, if Bai Jiutian obtains new reason to suspect that we honestly don't have the Wuxiang Qiankun technique, then his best lead for a legendary manual would be the Xiaoming Jiuyang manual, in which case he would have to side with us and it would be an arrangement of mutual benefit. To that end, I'd rather face him head on without using the Wuxiang Qiankun skill.

We don't know what we'd face in interrogation and the best I'm getting from you that we won't face such an event at the conclusion of our fight is a suggestion that 'stats and techniques aren't everything', which is hardly comforting. I'd much rather dictate a partnership from a point of power in having won the match rather than from the vanquished end, and if we admit anything then it's very bad by your suggestions and just embarrassing loss/waste of training opportunity from mine that will only serve to piss off BJ further. If nothing's admitted and his suspicion is high enough, and he's already said he's not letting us get away so I think it's pretty high, he'll get even angrier and by then we won't be in a position to fight back and we have no sort of rescue team set up with the girls.

I think I'll flop to A1 > D. I don't like D since I think it's better to let Zhang scamper off and die of dickrot (there's no way he's dead and we've already used WQ against his posse so that cat's out of the bag already if he were knowledgeable enough to know anything about it) but it's much better than A2.

 

[Absinthe]

Simmer down a little. He's already said that he wanted this answer from us without getting the rest of Huashan involved-- why else do you think he would invite us out to this secluded area rather than just calling for help at Huashan? There was more reason there for us to fight for our lives given that the master of Huashan would be present as an enemy as well as the rest of Huashan, the odds would be much more in his favor. If he intended to screw us over by calling for Huashan to help him out then he'd have done so already.

I don't think that's how BJ operates. Whether or not he calls for Huashan depends on whether or not he stands to benefit from doing so. That's why for the time being he is willing to speak with us quietly. At the same time, if it turns out he could gain more from turning us over to Huashan, he would do so.

I sure hope we'll able to withstand whatever interrogation he puts us through after he destroys us in a fight if A2 pans out, or that's a lot of waste for no reason.

First, Jing has some monstrous willpower. I don't think for a moment he'd cave to any interrogation. Second, I seriously doubt BJ would interrogate us. As I said, even if we lose, BJ would probably conclude that it's better to pursue the Zhang manual than us.

The 'unusual sword techniques' that we 'were hiding' was the formation technique used by those guys, the traces of which qi he found on their bodies... which he must have found if he has reason to suspect us of this copying technique. That has nothing to do with the Yuchang sword, revealing that we have that sword wouldn't allay his suspicions.

Sure, we know that. He is not so sure. The possibility of hidden sword techniques would add a layer of doubt and confusion to the idea we used Wuxiang Qiankun and not something else. The Yuchang Sword is famed for handling far more easily than any other blade in existence. The possibility that we have some kind of swordsmanship-copying technique with the Yuchang Sword, for instance, isn't out of the question.

During this time of working with him we couldn't work on upgrading that skill to keep him from becoming suspicious, which puts us in a worse shape for the Summit since it certainly won't be as developed as it could be if we were able to openly train it against a powerful foe in the form of him and keep on using it without worry of him finding it out.

In the first case, I doubt Bai Jiutian would join our group. If he helps us out, he would be doing it from his own side searching through Huashan, etc. Beyond that, training on Wuxiang Qiankun is mostly meditation, and just about every martial artist meditates so I doubt he's going to suspect something is up when we meditate unless he happens to have immortal eyes.

Also, don't you think this is a little distant in the future for resolving his suspicions? His intention is to not allow us off the mountain until we reveal our secret, at what point do you think he'll just let us go so that he can be suspicious until the Huashan Summit?

I don't think he's expecting 100% confirmation, and if we go with A2 he'll have to admit that so far signs are looking negative. I'm not sure why you insist on thinking in terms of absolutes.

The Huashan that he didn't want involved in this. Isn't it a little stupid to specifically hold this away from the people he'd intend to call on for help if it turned out that his hunch was right? Unless he didn't want to involve them, as he said.

He'd call on them the moment it would suit his purpose. Did you forget that he admitted he would call Huashan on us if we refused to agree to the meeting?

Knowing that the Zhang family dislikes him, why would BJ make a move to empower the already overpowerful Zhang clan by getting them the manual? If they get involved you know there's no way that BJ's the one that ends up with it. Heck, expanding that to Huashan would more likely result in the master trying to monopolize the stuff or use it to get deeper in bed with the Zhang guys, which is probably why he didn't want them involved in the first place.

Because turning in the Wuxiang Qiankun manual is just the sort of thing to repair his standing and make him a very powerful martial artist.

the best I'm getting from you that we won't face such an event at the conclusion of our fight is a suggestion that 'stats and techniques aren't everything', which is hardly comforting.

You're underselling what I said. I said that with our very high perception we'd have enough ability to fend off his swordsmanship for the most part and create a few openings for our unarmed techniques. With our unarmed techniques we should be able to beat him and with our rank 8 kenjutsu we should be able to face his sword.

I'd much rather dictate a partnership from a point of power in having won the match rather than from the vanquished end, and if we admit anything then it's very bad by your suggestions and just embarrassing loss/waste of training opportunity from mine that will only serve to piss off BJ further.

We can dictate from a point of power anyway if we win with A2, which I find to be quite possible. We invested in the Kenjutsu package so heavily precisely so that we'd have a solid sword technique. That said, even if we lose, if Bai Jiutian has the better opportunity by helping us than by backstabbing us, I think he'd help us. Losing would prove to him that we probably don't have the technique, so I think he would most likely try to help us out.

I think I'll flop to A1 > D. I don't like D since I think it's better to let Zhang scamper off and die of dickrot (there's no way he's dead and we've already used WQ against his posse so that cat's out of the bag already if he were knowledgeable enough to know anything about it) but it's much better than A2.

You realize there is such a thing as an uncertainty, right? Even though Bai Jiutian suspects we have the technique, he does not know we have the technique. If he already knew for certain we have the technique, he wouldn't be bothering getting confirmation in the first place. I think A1 is very reckless in this regard because we put our whole party in danger and I think BJ will just run away if Wuxiang Qiankun does turn out to be so effective.

 

[profreshinal]

We can't give BJ any info or more leads to the WQS unless we kill him right after. If BJ can confirm his suspicions then his next step is actually learning/getting the skill, we'll never get rid of him after that. Jing will still be the easiest target to get a legendary skill and BJ talks with respect about the Zhang's power.

How would using the WQS even help in this battle? It gives +1 sneak, +2 qinggong and allows to mimic BJ's techniques. Great, we'll be using BJ's techniques while having less proficiency in swords. It's not going to be very surprising either, I'm sure BJ is very comfortable counter-counter-countering Huashan techniques. WQS is strong but it's only lvl 1 and it's not yet going supersaiyan.

A2>C