[LP CYOA] 傳

[Baltika9]

I think the bets mostly irrelevant to the decision, both people should know its a tournament and shit happens.

A only guarantees skill ups, but at a potential physical cost to Guo, or ourselves (or both). Doesn't guarantee the win.

B guarantees a win, but could be seen to be dishonourable/out of character, though also correct by the rules.

C guarantees a loss, Guo will probably thank us though.

I dunno about that, A is defenitely a victory I think. Ffs, we fought against Zhang with a cracked skull, we can take this guy on. He's good, but nothing compared to our Master.

 

[kazgar]

I think the bets mostly irrelevant to the decision, both people should know its a tournament and shit happens.

A only guarantees skill ups, but at a potential physical cost to Guo, or ourselves (or both). Doesn't guarantee the win.

B guarantees a win, but could be seen to be dishonourable/out of character, though also correct by the rules.

C guarantees a loss, Guo will probably thank us though.

I dunno about that, A is defenitely a victory I think. Ffs, we fought against Zhang with a cracked skull, we can take this guy on. He's good, but nothing compared to our Master.

Something about the writeup of the option left room for interpretation, ie there's a bunch of self belief in that you can win and that you can be fixed up. (nothing wrong with self belief, just that its not perfect and is subject to change)

 

[Zero Credibility]

I think the bets mostly irrelevant to the decision, both people should know its a tournament and shit happens.

Still, Qu Liuwu seemed adamant that we must win. Must be a hell of a lot riding on the stakes, possibly even more than just money. And he did help us with his technique so I can't help but feel inclined to help him back if we can.

 

[Esquilax]

No, if we really turn it up with A, I think we'll definitely win. Guo Fu might be a physical freak of nature, but Jing is pretty physically freakish himself, plus with his neigong and Zhang's nasty techniques, there's just no way that Guo Fu will be able win if Jing isn't holding back.

I'd also like to point out, in addition to what Smashing Axe said, just because we puss out on this fight doesn't necessarily mean that we'll do so in the finals. We could pull off a dramatic reveal after an impressive display of skill against Nameless.

That didn't seem to stop her last night, though, we're at 100 % today. I'm sure she'll be glad to do some more vigorous treatments tonight.

Trade-offs and opportunity costs here. We have the fight against Yifang, and while we know her style and have devised a counter for it, the broken arm is trouble. Also, a lot could happen in the hours between fights; the time spent recovering could be spent learning more about the Persian fighters, for example.

Don't we have another fight today after this one?

Yeah, we do. The broken arm is concerning, but perhaps the skill boost would allow us to pull off our counter-move even with the crappy wooden sparring swords they use for the tournament:

Deceptive Fish Stab - A flexible and flashy three-step attack that involves luring the opponent into misjudging their distance, compounding their errors with an effective feint, and finishing them off with a quick stab. Works best with the Yuchang Sword.
...
Her parry meets empty air. Your fist follows through, slipping in between her guard to strike her on the jaw with the sword’s hilt. As she staggers back, you flip your sword back into position to deal the third step – the finishing blow – a quick stab to the chest before the enemy can recover their balance.

At least, you try to. The sword spins out of control as you twirl the hilt again. With a lighter, shorter sword you would have no problem, but the shoddily-made tournament-issue blunted swords don’t exactly have the best balance for this technique, and you don’t have the skill to compensate. Your fingers fumble as the sword flies from your grasp and hits Yiling in the forehead hilt-first.

The reason that we couldn't work the counter against Yiling was that we didn't have the Sword skill to compensate. With some practice against Guo Fu right now, perhaps we'll be able to pull it off. Also note that we broke our left forearm. Our right hand is our swordhand, so I don't think that this will affect our game too badly against Yifang.

Still, Qu Liuwu seemed adamant that we must win. Must be a hell of a lot riding on the stakes, possibly even more than just money. And he did help us with his technique so I can't help but feel inclined to help him back if we can.

Winner picks up Guo Fu? Nah, I doubt it. I think it has more to do with the fact that the Masters are just a bunch of degenerate alcoholics and gamblers who love prostitutes. They bet on shit all the time.

 

[treave]

The Beggar Bookkeeper is not a man you want to cross, and if he ever found out the Chief had dipped into the Sect's accounts for a personal bet...

Well, this is just one possibility.

 

[Baltika9]

Something about the writeup of the option left room for interpretation, ie there's a bunch of self belief in that you can win and that you can be fixed up. (nothing wrong with self belief, just that its not perfect and is subject to change)

And I understand the what you're saying, it's just that Bro Fu fights like Zhang does, all out maximum fuck, he's just not nearly as good at it as our Master is. And he already showed his hand to us, all of it, and we figured it out. A is just awesome for building up tension and winning the crowd's adulation, which guarantees that they'll lap up whatever pitch we throw at them later.

On the other hand, if we wuss out with B, there will still be rumors going on about Guo, even worse than before. "Just like his Master, no understanding of self control," still placing him and his waifu in danger.

 

[Kayerts]

Best case for A seems to be that we enter the finals relatively unharmed, having shown off our tricks.
Worse case is that (1) we seriously hurt Guo Fu (and he's less able to protect his wife), (2) Jing hurts himself, and/or (3) Jing reveals his techniques to the entire pugilistic world; 1 or 2 probably result in Nameless winning the tournament. How any of this applies to Jing's long-term goals seems unclear, but it seems more important that Nameless lose than that Jing win. Perhaps most pertinently, do you honestly think treave's gonna give us a free power-up that also happens to be the most optimal choice?

B's probably the option that leaves open the path to winning the tournament. I don't know how unbro it is; Fu's already accomplished his goals here.

C probably results in Fu beating Nameless; Jing's techniques remain relatively unknown. Not a bad outcome.

Voting anything but A.

 

[asxetos]

treave, is Qi Liuwu some distant uncle of Shun? or was it a different dynasty that was overthrown by the Emperor?

 

[Zero Credibility]

I wonder what would be the effect of hitting someone with our unique qi. I'm betting it wouldn't be pleasant for the target. We really should go back to Yao and learn Yuhe Finger when we get an opportunity again. We have pressure points skill anyway, so let's put it to use.

 

[Baltika9]

1: if we lay the smack down on Guo with our Shouwamg, that completely takes the heat off of him and he becomes irrelevant to the WiB plot.
3) It's gonna happen anyway if we intend to win the tournament, no way we'll bullshit through the Persians.

And also, the Frathouse Bros are expecting us to reveal our true identity at some point in the bout to stop the WiB plan. Winning here is a must, it's A or B and they both have their advantages. I just preffer A for the reasons I already stated.

 

[treave]

Qi Liuwu is a royal uncle, yes. Of course, this is not his real name. Still the same Tang Dynasty, still the same House of Li. The previous Emperor had over two dozen sons, including the current Emperor, the current one has about fifteen. Shun is not the oldest but he is the designated heir.

 

[Ifeex]

A.

 

[Esquilax]

Kayerts makes some good points, but out of all the downsides you name, (3) is the only one that's really important. Guo Fu won't be in trouble once we win with A, because by then the rumors of him being Zhang's apprentice will die down. B is actually more dangerous for Fu, because our injury could be perceived as brutality on Fu's part by onlookers rather than just the bro having trouble holding back. It would probably make the rumors worse.

3) It's gonna happen anyway if we intend to win the tournament, no way we'll bullshit through the Persians.

And also, the Frathouse Bros are expecting us to reveal our true identity at some point in the bout to stop the WiB plan. Winning here is a must, it's A or B and they both have their advantages. I just preffer A for the reasons I already stated.

We may not be able to bullshit past Nameless, but we'd be giving away far less of our skill if people like Bai Jiutian only have one fight of ours to go on as far as our techniques are concerned. At that point, if we have already laid claim that we're Zhang's apprentice (and thus, we take credit for defeating Nie Mudan, Yiling, Yifang and Guo Fu), it would probably be more prudent to drop the finals so that we don't have to give away more of our skills.

There are varying degrees of technique that we can give away: it isn't an all-or-nothing deal here. As of now, we've given none of our real techniques away, and the less that we show, the better. Plus, just like how we need to view a particular fighter multiple times before we understood his style, most people aren't like Cao'er and would need multiple views of our technique in action to theorize a counter for it. A good rule of thumb is: if we show a technique more than once, Bai Jiutian has probably started to theorize a counter for it.

The issue with fixing our broken arm is also opportunity cost: the time that Cao'er spends fixing our arm is time not spent watching other fights. For instance, I'd really love to catch the quarter-final match between Su Liaojing vs Nie Shiuxian as the Kunlun fighter seems like one of our more dangerous opponents. We won't be able to do that if both Jing and Cao'er are indisposed.

So there are plenty of things to consider.

 

[Nevill]

Voting B. Will elaborate later.

 

[Azira]

Win this fight, then fight bare-chested against Yifang. Have the garmenst worn in a way that everything but the mask can be shed in moments, if we really need to throw Yifang off. Imagine that, the naked Man Tiger Pig fighting against the best the nuns have?

On the other hand, she did join the castration squad, so we might be putting the balls in an untenable position...

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Win this fight, then fight bare-chested against Yifang. Have the garmenst worn in a way that everything but the mask can be shed in moments, if we really need to throw Yifang off. Imagine that, the naked Man Tiger Pig fighting against the best the nuns have?

On the other hand, she did join the castration squad, so we might be putting the balls in an untenable position...

It's a tournament bro, no worries.

 

[Esquilax]

I've just realized that we can still protect Guo Fu just fine even with B. Currently, Fu and Pu'er are still staying in their own house, and by now the WiB have become aware that Murong Yandi is acting as their bodyguard. However, our own identity is shielded from them; unlike the orthodox fighters participating here, they haven't seen our face and they still don't know who we are. Which is why they won't expect Fu to have a second bodyguard should they attack him again tonight:

“If… if it is a concern,” Murong Yandi speaks up, “perhaps I may be of help. Let me watch over Guo Fu and his wife. It is not like I have anything else to do. They can continue staying at their place. I think this is what my Master would want me to do…”

“That is great,” you say, “I’ll help you out and we can take turns.” If there is an attack tonight, it could be a chance for you to capture one of the assailants and interrogate them, no matter if they are connected to the mysterious people-in-black, or if they truly are orthodox sect pugilists.

treave, what is our arrangement with Murong Yandi? Do we alternate bodyguard duty every night?

Alternatively, we could offer both Fu and Pu'er a room to crash with us. Since the WiB haven't connected Man Tiger Pig with our merchant alter-ego, I don't think that anyone will realize where Fu actually is. I think that we have other options here than either exposing all of our techniques or throwing Fu and Pu'er to the wolves. We can still look after him, or better yet, get help from one of the sect heads that we just talked to. I think that we've all glossed over this part of the update:

You would probably have to get more help from the heads of the sects to protect Guo Fu – but you can discuss that after today’s matches. The conspirators don’t seem to have tried anything within the tournament area so far.

The very people that attacked Fu and his wife the first time were dressed in orthodox sect uniforms, so we can't be sure who some of them are really working for, but perhaps the sect heads can give us a few options here.

Bros, we just can't give our techniques away like this. treave would not have offered a +1 Unarmed, +1 Sword skill boost if it didn't put our entire Art of War at risk of being exposed to the very people we need to hide it from. We need to think long-term, and in the long-term not revealing all of our skills will pay off far more than this skill boost will. We'll face a lot of challenges over the next year in which we issue our challenges, so we'll have more than enough opportunity to improve our skills between the fights and our investigations into Shun's mission. Don't treat this as the last skill boost you'll ever see, because it isn't.

 

[treave]

There is no real arrangement, just him deciding to hang around them to deter any assailants.

 

[Zero Credibility]

I don't like the fact that with B Guo would still appear stronger then us in the ring, even if we win on a technicality. Partly it is because it only strengthens the public opinion that Guo is the Maniac's apprentice, leading to trouble for him even if he lost and making our reveal that we are the true apprentice (if we need to make one later) that much more difficult.

But it is also because of the Maniac's challenge. I fear that Zhang would not consider our task completed until we also take down Guo, because a win on a technicality is no win at all for him and he wouldn't accept that there is anyone stronger then his apprentice. He might even demand that we maim or kill him - I wouldn't put it past him. Remember what he would do to the tigers we could have befriended?

 

[Esquilax]

I don't like the fact that with B Guo would still appear stronger then us in the ring, even if we win on a technicality. Partly it is because it only strengthens the public opinion that Guo is the Maniac's apprentice, leading to trouble for him even if he lost and making our reveal that we are the true apprentice (if we need to make one later) that much more difficult.

But it is also because of the Maniac's challenge. I fear that Zhang would not consider our task completed until we also take down Guo, because a win on a technicality is no win at all for him and he wouldn't accept that there is anyone stronger then his apprentice. He might even demand that we maim or kill him - I wouldn't put it past him. Remember what he would do to the tigers we could have befriended?

Baseless speculation. He hasn't made demands for anyone to be maimed or killed so far, and I don't see why he would change things right now. However, you're absolutely right that we would have to defeat Guo Fu in the future once an orthodox sect scoops him up. By that point, we would already have had the experience of this bout going for us in another encounter, whereas he isn't anywhere near smart or perceptive enough to use such things to his advantage as much as Jing is.

As for the public opinion, we have the Masters vouching for our identity. If the word of the Abbess, Abbot Fangzhang, and Qi Liuwu isn't enough, then I'm not sure what is.

However, if we do end up going with A, I would recommend losing at the finals after revealing that we're Zhang's apprentice. That way, we'd claim credit for all the victories against Fu, the Emei and Nie Mudan, but we wouldn't have to reveal any more of our techniques than necessary. We'd lose out on the technique manual, but perhaps if we are able to identify the Persians and track them down, along with the manual, while using the bout with Nameless as a pretext for figuring out her style, we may not miss out on the manual after all...

We really need to be cognizant of the flow of information, it's very crucial to our success. Both A and B would require a different approach, but if we vote A, I am against beating Nameless in the finals.

 

[Azira]

Zhang would probably be less than amused that we "gave up" and started whining, just because our arm might be broken. No. I'm sticking with A here.

 

[Esquilax]

Zhang would probably be less than amused that we "gave up" and started whining, just because our arm might be broken. No. I'm sticking with A here.

The task needs to be completed in a year. treave has mentioned before that even if we get beaten, we can still issue another challenge later depending on the circumstances. So long as all the names are crossed off in the end, that's all that matters.

Again, nobody's arguing that the win in B would count for the purpose of Zhang's challenge. It won't. We'd have to fight Guo Fu at a later time.

But still, I am really tempted by the general awesomeness of A. Nevertheless, I can't justify showing our hand while our future opponents are watching.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Baseless speculation.

It's speculation, sure. But as I sad, I wouldn't put it past him at all. His apprentice hurt and then calling foul in front of an audience - no, he wouldn't like that at all.

 

[Esquilax]

It's speculation, sure. But as I sad, I wouldn't put it past him at all. His apprentice hurt and then calling foul in front of an audience - no, he wouldn't like that at all.

Well there's speculation and there's baseless speculation. You said that Zhang might change the conditions such that we would have to maim or kill Guo Fu, but there's absolutely nothing that supports that, so it's baseless. Zhang's a results-oriented guy, so he doesn't give a fuck if we accomplish his task either cleanly or through causing a massacre that puts the entire pugilistic world at war with us. As for your comment about the call-out, it has some merit, but a good showing against Nameless will prove our worth just fine. We can't make a good showing with a broken arm and most of our techniques revealed, though.

The point is that the Masters will vouch for us and that as champion, we have grounds to issue a challenge. If the Masters have told us that they're willing to accept a challenge, and we've got a pulpit to issue a challenge, I don't see what the problem is. Just because we might not be a legit champ in the eyes of a bunch of drunken plebs means nothing if the Masters accept, which they of course will.

As I said already, we would be able to fight Guo Fu later. This challenge will last a year, so let's treat it like a marathon and not a sprint. We're not going to win by winning a match that ultimately means nothing to Zhang and showing all of our techniques to the people that we need to fight in the near future anyways.

How do you account for people like Bai Jiutian, who's no doubt keenly watching this fight against Guo Fu? On what grounds do you justify showing our hand like this? What do you feel you'll get in return that is worth giving up that information? If the answer is just that you want to be bros with Guo Fu, that's not good enough. If it's about issuing a challenge, we already have grounds to do so with the Masters vouching for us. I just don't see the benefits of A here.

Now, I'm sure that A won't give everything away, but considering that we'll be going all-out, it'll definitely expose us a great deal.

 

[Jester]

vote A
Its best option for helping farmer changing WiB target from him to us and that can be very helpful. Guo wont be able to disturb their plans or gather any intel on them even if WiB will blackmail him, but Jing should be able to. WE can win tournament with B probably but i see A as base for cunning trap gaining us information, and WiB will try to get Jing or abandon their plans here so. So either we will stop them here or gain some leads.
We should have our priorities IMO.

Treave if we will lv our sword skill does that mean our sword based techniques will get a boost to? I expect when two people using same tech fight battle is decided by statistic and overall skill in weapon.