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Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
How do we know what influence it had when we failed both our willpower tests?

Anyway, my point here is that we know nothing about the demon so we shouldn't be factoring hon so heavily into our decision making (Shulgi all over again, for those of us from the EPIC days). Nothing more.
 

Elfberserker

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 25, 2013
Messages
1,540
Whatever we think of the demon, we can fuck up the conferance if we are too tired...

There is a chance that madam nie ambushes us during the talk with bai jiutian.

Shu probrary has better grasp of situation than we have..

Night raid could be interesting surprise find/buttfuck
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
Pretty sure night brings out the demon:
There is something different about the Sword Demon tonight, compared to when you had met him on the road. He seems sharper somehow… more real. More deadly.

And now we're oddly full of energy at this unearthly hour of night.
Usually, I find myself disagreeing with you, but I have to admit you have a point here:
At this unearthly hour everyone should be fast asleep, but you are feeling full of energy tonight…
And no, the demon isn't the new "Shulgi". It's a very real and always present thing that we know will have a profound effect on our character eventually (unless we either exercise it or die first).

D - Besides, this strikes me as one of those moments where treave will punish us for trying to have our cake and eat it too.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
And no, the demon isn't the new "Shulgi". It's a very real and always present thing that we know will have a profound effect on our character eventually (unless we either exercise it or die first).
It is, in a sense that though it is no less real than our luck, we have absolutely no knowledge about how it works or when it can strike, and thus the only reasoning that is ever brought up is a paranoid speculation of how one day, some day it will show itself if we do this random thing or that.

Besides, this strikes me as one of those moments where treave will punish us for trying to have our cake and eat it too.
You mean, trying to meta your way out with actions based purely on speculations, out of a situation you landed yourself in by acting carelessly around a force you didn't have a single solid fact about in the first place is a completely acceptable approach to the problem, and not at all looks like trying to keep our +2 legendary swords and avoid the corresponding consequences? That surely deserves a reward. :)

I am not arguing one way or the other, but the meta arguments aren't worth anything. If we sticked to the facts and accepted that we didn't know squat about what we were facing, we would have avoided the possession in the first place.
 
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Absinthe

Arcane
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
4,062
It is, in a sense that though it is no less real than our luck, we have absolutely no knowledge about how it works or when it can strike,
:lol: Look at Nevill, trying so hard to be so ignorant. C'mon now, you know better than that.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Of course, some of us always totes know what's up, and it never fails to bring us resounding success.

The luck argument was outlawed to avoid the baseless drivel about how "This will get us killed! No, that will!" from cluttering the discuss. I hope that people give the new Shulgi a similar treatment once they tire of jumping at shadows.
 

Absinthe

Arcane
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
4,062
Yep, you're definitely going full retard.

Next you'll claim we can't really know if Jing was even possessed. :lol:

Of course, I suspect that would be too stupid even for you, but you never know. Surprise me, Nevill.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
I've been mulling over how best to vote for this choice, and it's difficult - I don't like using meta reasoning because there are so many ways that that can fail you, but at the same time, the option to sleep is there for a reason and clearly provides different consequences than the others. Similarly, there must be a downside to the A, B and C choices where we actively decide to do something - everything carries a price. Attending the Conference is important and whatever reason you can conjure up, going with something other than D gives me a bad feeling. Call it chasing demons, call it meta-logic, but I am getting a bad gut feeling from this that I can't just shake off as paranoia based off of knowledge that our character isn't privy to.

Nevertheless, demons or no, I'd rather be sharp for the Conference and take things as they are tomorrow.

D
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
the meta arguments aren't worth anything. If we sticked to the facts and accepted that we didn't know squat about what we were facing, we might have avoided the possession in the first place.
Sometimes the facts just aren't all there and you have to make the best guess you can. If we had done as you say, we would have been defeated by the sword demon - either by virtue of us running away at all or by virtue of us being stabbed in the back as we ran away (only treave knows how it would have played out). If we had (as I wanted to) voted to kiss him, he would have ran away. It wasn't sticking to the facts, but we would have effectively won and avoided the possession. Sometimes you just have to make the best guess you can and go with it. It's that or run every time because we almost never really know what we're facing.

Here's what many of us did successfully guess at with our worthless meta arguments:
1. That the kiss would shock him enough that he wouldn't kill us even if we failed.
2. That WQS would give the demon an opportunity to possess us.
3. That he was a demon or possessed by one.

Problem is, not enough people listened to these oh so "meta" arguments that happened to be 100% correct.
Of course, some of us always totes know what's up, and it never fails to bring us resounding success.

The luck argument was outlawed to avoid the baseless drivel about how "This will get us killed! No, that will!" from cluttering the discuss. I hope that people give the new Shulgi a similar treatment once they tire of jumping at shadows.
The demon is not like our luck skill or Shulgi. treav espressly stated that the luck skill wouldn't predictably sabotage our choices and we had no idea how Shulgi or the luck skill would affect either LP.

We know for a fact the ultimate result that our possession can and probably will bring about. It's an active entity that has a will and we can recognize some of the signs of it's operation - as Absinthe noted. It's hardly fitting to call this meta. It's more like "using basic memory recall".
 

Absinthe

Arcane
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
4,062
Because that will probably lead to a bad end.

When treave gave us the opportunity to continue, he also gave us the opportunity to fuck up the possession worse than the ending he wrote.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Sometimes the facts just aren't all there and you have to make the best guess you can. If we had done as you say, we would have been defeated by the sword demon - either by virtue of us running away at all or by virtue of us being stabbed in the back as we ran away (only treave knows how it would have played out).
Well, it would not have turned out the best way, but it was a reasonable choice of action, seeing how treave said he only added it because he was feeling generous and offered us a way out.

Sometimes you just have to make the best guess you can and go with it. It's that or run every time because we almost never really know what we're facing.

Here's what many of us did successfully guess at with our worthless meta arguments:
1. That the kiss would shock him enough that he wouldn't kill us even if we failed.
2. That WQS would give the demon an opportunity to possess us.
3. That he was a demon or possessed by one.
Ah, see, this is where our understanding differs. Those weren't arguments, meta or not. What happened is that we came up with a bunch of guesses, and some of them turned out to be right. It was a case of a broken watch pointing at the right time, simply because one of the answers had to be right, and between the different people we called all of them.

Ultimately, it was pure guesswork, and people who said they didn't hear a single good argument in favor of either choice were right in that they recognized it as such. None of us had any basis for their claims. Naturally, the fact that the demon was special and thus no previous knowledge applied didn't help our situation any.

Of course, that didn't stop people who totes knew B was the right call because it involved WQS.

Problem is, not enough people listened to these oh so "meta" arguments that happened to be 100% correct.
You shouldn't expect people to listen to you when you ask them to stake their life on a hunch. Both sides have failed to make a good case out of what was available. What have happened is that people were psychologically more comfortable with a 50% chance of success while they were fighting than with the same chance while they were trying to chase the dude and kiss him.

The funny thing is that the kiss that supposedly would have worked on a demon would not even land on him, so the people who were '100% correct' weren't even correct for the reasons they have themselves stated.

That's not being correct, that's being lucky.

The demon is not like our luck skill or Shulgi. treave espressly stated that the luck skill wouldn't predictably sabotage our choices and we had no idea how Shulgi or the luck skill would affect either LP.

We know for a fact the ultimate result that our possession can and probably will bring about.
Ah, but we do know how the luck and Shulgi will affect our choices. Badly. Shun will die, Yunzi will die, everyone will die etc - you know, the usual scares that people put up when they are trying to dissuade others from their chosen path. What we don't know is if they will affect any given choice.

And that is exactly how they are alike with the Demon. What we know about the possession is that there will be little to no effect on our choices until the LP ends, because of the way we handled it. That major story-altering change you are talking about that is supposed to make it different is not going to happen during our time:
Besides, with the option chosen, the effects don't really kick in until you finish playing hero and find out that you are addicted to it.

What I would like to avoid is the situation when we no longer treat the choices on their own merits, instead acting on what would affect the DEMONZ. I am alright if you call it a bad feeling or a hunch, but I will maintain that no logical argument can be made in its favor or against it. Though if that makes it fun for you people, who am I to judge?
 
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Absinthe

Arcane
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
4,062
And that is exactly how they are alike with the Demon. What we know about the possession is that there will be little to no effect on our choices until the LP ends, because of the way we handled it. That major story-altering change you are talking about that is supposed to make it different is not going to happen during our time.
Nevill totes knows. Alright, lets ask treave.
 

Absinthe

Arcane
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
4,062
Nevill is claiming all decisions relating to demonic possession will have minimal impact on the LP until the ending. Is this true?
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
Nevill is claiming all decisions relating to demonic possession will have minimal impact on the LP until the ending. Is this true?
I think he already answered that:
Wait. This isn't some sort of sentient being you can converse with. It can be said to be nothing more than twisted intent. A warped mirror of yourself. So, uh, if you guys are hoping for superpowers off the bat and voices in your head or a desire to feed on tentacled beings, not happening. Just being up front here about expectations.

The most obvious consequences you can expect in the near future is the lack of options to say 'Fuck it', which will really make little difference considering I hardly recall when it's ever been picked anyway...
 
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Smashing Axe

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
2,835
Divinity: Original Sin
I think you guys are right about our possession affecting us at night.

Still, I want to see BJ. Because it'd be amusing.

B
 

Absinthe

Arcane
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
4,062
I think there's a payoff for being a good boy who goes to bed and actually wakes up on time in the morning though.
 

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