Dragon Age Cooldown Versus Vancian

[Lilura]

 

[RK47]

You don't even know what you're talking about.

 

[Mangoose]

Origins:
Mage casts spell, begin 6sec cooldown!
What to do, what to do...?
Mage can cast another spell! (or use her rocket launcher staff a few times).
Rinse repeat

Baldur's Gate:
Mage casts spell, begin 1 round (6sec) "cooldown"!
What to do, what to do...?
Mage CAN'T cast another spell, so either runs around in circles like a fucktard or feebly taps enemy with q.staff at 1ApR and - no surprise - MISSES!, before able to cast another spell.
Rinse repeat

There's a reason people played Fighter/mage multis in BG2, 10ApR in between castings of Sunfire were rather effective, better than standing around twiddling the thumbs as a single-class would.

But who cares, they both play similarly. I used to be totally against cooldowns, then I opened my mind and started to think a bit more. Maybe others should, too.

Lol, if you spam spells in BG you're going to be sad when you run out of memorized spells.

 

[RK47]

Lol, if you spam spells in BG you're going to be sad when you run out of memorized spells.

Stop ruining his edginess.
It's obvious Diablo is a great game.

 

[Infinitron]

Pillars of Eternity has a "rocket launcher" unlimited Blast ability AND memorization, so best of both worlds I guess?

 

[RK47]

Pillars of Eternity has a "rocket launcher" unlimited Blast ability AND memorization, so best of both worlds I guess?

It's great cause Sawyer is on it and Obsidian isn't a small time company.

 

[Lilura]

Lol, if you spam spells in BG you're going to be sad when you run out of memorized spells.

Yes, because a few castings of Sleep, Web and Blindness coupled with copious wands of fireball thrown around like confetti aren't enough to completely dominate BG1 encounters, right?

 

[Ziem]

Lol, if you spam spells in BG you're going to be sad when you run out of memorized spells.

Who cares, after the fight he will just press the magic "Rest" button and everything is going to be ready again


There's nothing inherently wrong about cooldowns

 

[Mangoose]

Lol, if you spam spells in BG you're going to be sad when you run out of memorized spells.

Yes, because a few castings of Sleep, Web and Blindness coupled with copious wands of fireball thrown around like confetti aren't enough to completely dominate BG1 encounters, right?

>Talk about gameplay mechanics
>Bring bad itemization into the discussion

What are you gonna do in the next encounter after you wasted your Sleeps, Webs, and Blindness on your first encounter? Rest-spam? lol.

 

[Mangoose]

Lol, if you spam spells in BG you're going to be sad when you run out of memorized spells.

Who cares, after the fight he will just press the magic "Rest" button and everything is going to be ready again

>Talk about gameplay mechanics
>Bring in bad level design where you can rest anywhere.

There's nothing inherently wrong about cooldowns

>Can't distinguish between spammy abilities on short cooldowns and situational abilities on long cooldowns.

 

[RK47]

Lol, if you spam spells in BG you're going to be sad when you run out of memorized spells.

Who cares, after the fight he will just press the magic "Rest" button and everything is going to be ready again


There's nothing inherently wrong about cooldowns

>Talk about gameplay mechanics
>Bring in bad level design where you can rest anywhere.

Stop nitpicking, shut up, it's fun.

 

[Lilura]

What are you gonna do in the next encounter after you wasted your Sleeps, Webs, and Blindness on your first encounter? Rest-spam? lol.

I just thru you a softball, kid. Do you really think you need all that for one encounter? One casting of Sleep is enough to knock out everything up to ogre. For anything above, there's Blindness and Web. All three are level 1-2 spells, for which you have enough slots to get you thru a whole map or dungeon level, on average, before resting. Get on my level.

 

[Mangoose]

What are you gonna do in the next encounter after you wasted your Sleeps, Webs, and Blindness on your first encounter? Rest-spam? lol.

I just thru you a softball, kid. Do you really think you need all that for one encounter? One casting of Sleep is enough to knock out everything up to ogre. For anything above, there's Blindness and Web. All three are level 1-2 spells, for which you have enough slots to get you thru a whole map or dungeon level, on average, before resting. Get on my level.

Oh, so in other words, you don't spam spells in BG. But you do spam spells in DA:O. Clearly they play similarly.

 

[RK47]

Yeah, kid. Shut up. The adult gamers are talking. Get on their level. Fuck your static unmoving goalposts.

 

[Lilura]

Oh, so in other words, you don't spam spells in BG. But you do spam spells in DA:O. Clearly they play similarly.

Of course, Origins just has comparatively weaker spells (dmg, duration) than Baldur's Gate, you might cast a disabler like Cone of Cold two or three times per encounter, whereas for the same encounter in BG you would just cast one OP Sleep.

The difference is that inbetween cooldowns, Origins gives the mage more to do because they can immediately cast another, different spell from the quickbar. Say, follow up the Cone of Cold with a Stone Fist, to cause shatter. In Baldur's Gate you're just waiting for 1 round before you cast Fireball on the sleeping enemies.

So what's so bad about Origins cooldowns, then?

 

[Mangoose]

Oh, so in other words, you don't spam spells in BG. But you do spam spells in DA:O. Clearly they play similarly.

Of course, Origins just has comparatively weaker spells (dmg, duration) than Baldur's Gate, you might cast a disabler like Cone of Cold two or three times per encounter, whereas for the same encounter in BG you would just cast one OP Sleep.

The difference is that inbetween cooldowns, Origins gives the mage more to do because they can immediately cast another, different spell from the quickbar. Say, follow up the Cone of Cold with a Stone Fist, to cause shatter. In Baldur's Gate you're just waiting for 1 round before you cast Fireball on the sleeping enemies.

So what's the difference? (other than Origins combat being faster and more fun)

The difference is that you're an ADHD spastic who actually likes that shit.

 

[Lilura]

The difference is that you're an ADHD spastic who actually likes that shit.

Then I guess I'm an ADHD spastic playing BG1, too, then. Because I clear out most Baldur's Gate ARs by running around spamming Sleep (warriors then hack them up in an instant), faster than I clear out an area in Origins with all your so-called "spamming".

 

[Mangoose]

The difference is that you're an ADHD spastic who actually likes that shit.

Then I guess I'm an ADHD spastic playing BG1, too, then. Because I clear out most Baldur's Gate ARs by running around spamming Sleep (warriors then hack them up in an instant), faster than I clear out an area in Origins with all your so-called "spamming".

You actually like micromanagement in an RTWP game lol.

 

[Lilura]

You actually like micromanagement in an RTWP game lol.

So no arguments against Origins cooldowns other than ignorant notions, you're now reduced to lols? K.

 

[Mangoose]

You actually like micromanagement in an RTWP game lol.

So no arguments against Origins cooldowns other than ignorant notions, you're now reduced to lols? K.

Read the past three pages.

 

[Lilura]

Read the past three pages.

Yeah, none of that is really valid to Origins. I do more clicking playing Baldur's Gate, it doesn't even have a tactical framework. It seems you just have a fear of change, which is common for those who don't get enough sunshine and fresh air.

 

[eremita]

Oh guys you were actually on to something interesting but Mangoose's ego got the better of him...

It's clear there's no difference between short cooldowns and long cooldowns or even memorization with no regard to area/encounter design. There's a lot of shit going on in some of the harder fights in DAO, so even with short cooldowns, you have to time your casting anyway.

The power of memorization mechanics really shone in BG2 dungeons where you couldn't sleep. If you managed your spells/potions badly, you were fucked. Not something you could achieve even with long cooldown stuff cause you'll just wait. People tend to argue that only an idiot would wait half an hour for cooldowns before finishing the dungeon but still - there's that feeling that you're alright no matter what, you'll just wait if you had to. Not present in BG2 dungeon with vampires and lichs... you just felt uuuuuhh I'm probably fucked right now...

Mangoose spoke about interesting dynamic in MOBA games though (never played them) - you don't wanna fuck around with your cooldowns because of the competitive aspect. I wonder if there can be something similar in classic CRPG game (mind you not some competitive bullshit, but something pushing you to not fucking around)...

 

[FeelTheRads]

Read the past three pages.

Yeah, none of that is really valid to Origins. I do more clicking playing Baldur's Gate, it doesn't even have a tactical framework. It seems you just have a fear of change, which is common for those who don't get enough sunshine and fresh air.

Uh oh, Mangoose, you've been outed.
Be a man not a goose.

 

[Mangoose]

I do more clicking playing Baldur's Gate

r00fles

 

[Lilura]

Except there were almost no dungeons in all the Infinity Engine games wherein you couldn't sleep. In fact, I struggle to think of any (though they definitely exist). And in Infinity Engine games you have an all-powerful rest "spell", which trigger respawns only rarely.

Sure, you can self-impose a rest restriction, but you can also self-impose a "no wait" restriction in Origins.