[deleted]

[Naveen]

Deus ex is one of my favourites since it's more or less seamlessly integrated into an FPS. It's a simple concept, but making your crosshair expansion slower or quicker according to your Guns level is brilliant (I would have implemented that in Fallout 3).

I like D&D 2-3e at low-levels (1-6). Although I like the idea of having lots of points to invest (Fallout), it's odd when I get better at something I haven't even practiced. Don't know if it exists, but a mix between Morrowind-Fallout system could be interesting.

 

[gunman]

Giving skill points to raise any stat or skill you want is fun but kind of moronic. Like spending all the time to kill wolves with a sword and suddenly becoming proficient in axes and negotiation.

Ideally I would see a system in which you are slowly gaining proficiency by use, in the weapon you used more or by talking and being offered all possible dialogue options with a difficulty check (with some options being more difficult to succeed), and your skill in speech would grow with successfully passed dialogue options. Level ups I would see like honorary titles granted by reaching certain levels in skills (and optionally performing tasks for the organisation or faction offering these titles).

 

[DavidBVal]

Giving skill points to raise any stat or skill you want is fun but kind of moronic. Like spending all the time to kill wolves with a sword and suddenly becoming proficient in axes and negotiation.

Ideally I would see a system in which you are slowly gaining proficiency by use, in the weapon you used more or by talking and being offered all possible dialogue options with a difficulty check (with some options being more difficult to succeed), and your skill in speech would grow with successfully passed dialogue options. Level ups I would see like honorary titles granted by reaching certain levels in skills (and optionally performing tasks for the organisation or faction offering these titles).

That's how skill increases work in RL. And it sucks.

 

[gunman]

We're talking about role playing games here, not real life simulators. Why would it necessarily suck in an alternate reality governed by different laws and rules?

 

[hoverdog]

Systems that are more horizontal, not vertical. That means that a character does not get more powerful inherently (like in DnD, where a 3rd level fighter might have triple the HPs of a 1st level one) or at least the power curve is lower, but rather gets more tools to work with.
Games that operate in this way are hard to find, though. DnD games are obviously out, although it gets a bit smoother in BG2, due to higher levels, than in BG or IWDs. Arcanum could be, kind of, counted as such, but its system is completely broken power-wise so it doesn't really matter in the end. Realms of Arkania, I suppose, but it's been ages since I played it.

Learn-by-use could be good, theoretically, but in practice it's a broken system chokefull of exploits.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

I think increase by use should never replace real leveling, I can see why people would like that form of progression, not just for immersion but because immediate and constant reactivity is pretty satisfying. But I prefer choice any day, Skyrim's leveling system was way better than Oblivion's and did offer some choice in the form of perks, but I never felt as free to use whatever's best at any moment when I played it. Staves for instance, can be more powerful than your spells whilst costing no magic, yet no one I know ever uses them because they don't grant exp.

Something like what New Vegas did with it's challenge perks, or the proficiency system in Borderlands, would be ideal. The majority of leveling is player choice, but you can still improve by practice and use, it just isn't part of the core leveling system.

 

[Reinhardt]

Oh, and I liked Mana Khemia system, when all upgades comes from alchemy.

 

[AArmanFV]

Giving skill points to raise any stat or skill you want is fun but kind of moronic. Like spending all the time to kill wolves with a sword and suddenly becoming proficient in axes and negotiation.

Ideally I would see a system in which you are slowly gaining proficiency by use, in the weapon you used more or by talking and being offered all possible dialogue options with a difficulty check (with some options being more difficult to succeed), and your skill in speech would grow with successfully passed dialogue options. Level ups I would see like honorary titles granted by reaching certain levels in skills (and optionally performing tasks for the organisation or faction offering these titles).

Like Wasteland you say?

 

[Neanderthal]

Thought Betrayal at Krondors improve by use system was pretty tasty, but open to exploit again. Need a good GM to oversee that kind of shit, maybe tier it so that you can only improve so much through repetition then need to see a master to learn the secret of getting to the next plateau of use.

 

[Shin]

Giving skill points to raise any stat or skill you want is fun but kind of moronic. Like spending all the time to kill wolves with a sword and suddenly becoming proficient in axes and negotiation.

Ideally I would see a system in which you are slowly gaining proficiency by use, in the weapon you used more or by talking and being offered all possible dialogue options with a difficulty check (with some options being more difficult to succeed), and your skill in speech would grow with successfully passed dialogue options. Level ups I would see like honorary titles granted by reaching certain levels in skills (and optionally performing tasks for the organisation or faction offering these titles).

 

[Alex]

I am rather fond of games like AD&D where the level of power of the character sharply increase. Especially when these increases lead to a very different gameplay. In pen and paper D&D, a first level character is a weakling who needs his wits to survive any dungeon delve. A fifth level character is more akin to a pulp fantasy hero. A tenth-ish level character is not only personally powerful, but he also has access to some kind of keep. Fighters become warlords. Clerics build their own church or monastery and suddenly they have several people to aid him with the praying (and a whole lot more to concern himself with). Wizards build towers where they can research new spells, create monstrosities and what not, etc. Thieves get to create their own guild and become the head of organized crime in some city.

This aspect of the game has not, to my knowledge, ever been well translated to computer games.

 

[Excidium II]

This aspect of the game has not, to my knowledge, ever been well translated to computer games.

Or most groups for that matter, considering that modern D&D devolved into focusing on muderhobo at all levels to support how people played the game.

 

[Alex]

Or most groups for that matter, considering that modern D&D devolved into focusing on muderhobo at all levels to support how people played the game.

What is this "modern" D&D you speak of?

 

[Excidium II]

Last 20 years?

 

[Telengard]

My favorite leveling system does not exist in the crpg world. It's from RECON, where your choice of class and cross-training class determines what skills you can choose from, then you choose skills, and after that, everything is wickedly random. Every stat, every skill - it's all rolled. And you can be tops from the beginning. But since so much is random, it's not like waiting for six stats to be high. You have to accept some compromise. Then when you "level", you barely change at all. One skill up a few points.

(Not that the crpg world would ever accept such a system.)

 

[Alex]

My favorite leveling system does not exist in the crpg world. It's from RECON, where your choice of class and cross-training class determines what skills you can choose from, then you choose skills, and after that, everything is wickedly random. Every stat, every skill - it's all rolled. And you can be tops from the beginning. But since so much is random, it's not like waiting for six stats to be high. You have to accept some compromise. Then when you "level", you barely change at all. One skill up a few points.

(Not that the crpg world would ever accept such a system.)

Sounds a bit like Traveller's.

Last 20 years?

Someday we will get a game that mixes the best out of megadungeons, hex-crawling, 4x strategy games, and Warhammer Fantasy.

 

[Excidium II]

Someday.

 

[Nekot-The-Brave]

I like how the leveling is in Underrail and Fallout 1/2, But I'd like it to where you could only increase skills that you 'used' in the previous level.

 

[Invictus]

Learn-by-use could be good, theoretically, but in practice it's a broken system chokefull of exploits.

Even the master of balance himself acknowledges Darklands does that system perfectly, but since modern games tend to try for leveling scaling rather tha cone up with proper game balance we get what we have, I honestly cant think of a way that Darklands could be exploited even knowing the game inside out, the most I can think of is going straight to Nurenberg for the best quality weapons and armor and a pretty good physician and an university for healing

 

[DavidBVal]

Even the master of balance himself acknowledges Darklands does that system perfectly, but since modern games tend to try for leveling scaling rather tha cone up with proper game balance we get what we have, I honestly cant think of a way that Darklands could be exploited even knowing the game inside out, the most I can think of is going straight to Nurenberg for the best quality weapons and armor and a pretty good physician and an university for healing

Maybe it has to do with the fact that... you never become really powerful in Darklands, like you do in other RPGs.

But you are essentially right.

By the way, Darklands' character creation, with the switching careers, is very similar to WFRP careers progression system.

 

[weresheeple]

I would absolutely love the 3.5 D&D progression if a game actually included all the prestige classes and feats to make your unique characters and had slow leveling and actually gave you plenty of opportunities to utilize all of those skills, feats and especially utility spells and spell-like abilities before they become absolutely useless.

 

[Alex]

Maybe it has to do with the fact that... you never become really powerful in Darklands, like you do in other RPGs.

But you are essentially right.

By the way, Darklands' character creation, with the switching careers, is very similar to WFRP careers progression system.

Don't forget, however, that in WFRP, the career system is still used after character creation. The careers are the levelling system! Which is a pretty cool feature and something I think they never took full advantage of. I think it would be pretty cool if someone used it in a computer game.

 

[DavidBVal]

Don't forget, however, that in WFRP, the career system is still used after character creation. The careers are the levelling system! Which is a pretty cool feature and something I think they never took full advantage of. I think it would be pretty cool if someone used it in a computer game.

I one day will!

 

[deuxhero]

I like how the leveling is in Underrail and Fallout 1/2, But I'd like it to where you could only increase skills that you 'used' in the previous level.

This easily creates a death-spiral for skills. If it's not useful enough to use regularlly it will only grow worse and worse compared to other skills.

 

[Alex]

This easily creates a death-spiral for skills. If it's not useful enough to use regularlly it will only grow worse and worse compared to other skills.

You could solve this with books. As in, books allow you to invest in skills the more you've spent reading them. In fact, if the game had a time limit like Fallout was supposed to have, deciding whether to study a skill you would like to improve or whether to press on could be an interesting choice!

You could also have levels allowing you to spend skill points however you like, but give the player the choice to study skills when he finds teachers and books. Fallout does this already, but finding a book or a teacher was a rare event. You could, instead, plan the game around the player having half of his skill points coming from study.