Let's Play VtM: Wild Nights - Chapter 10

[grotsnik]

Do we still ghoul them with B?

Oui.

Billy Budd

I see you and respond with;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwoxp5avslI

Shit! Completely unintentional. It's from a Melville novel, which I think is where I got it from. Usually I remember to Google the names I come up with to check I didn't just nick them from somewhere else...

A most tasty treat, good sir

With all the glimpses of Other Stuff we've been getting (Kirkbeck, Griddle, Eames and Hob, the Sabbat's Ritz Recruitment, and, above all else, Anthony), I've been wondering if we could also get a piece of text about London's new Archbishop. Pwease? Pwetty pwease?

Thanks! As to the Archbishop bit, sounds good - I'll try and fit something in next update.

 

[Storyfag]

Thanks! As to the Archbishop bit, sounds good - I'll try and fit something in next update.

 

[Esquilax]

C is very dangerous in term of betrayals and them turning on Humphrey and Sommers. Militarymen are accustomed to be kept in the dark but add "enslavement" in the process will lead to revolt and mutiny for sure and certain.

Why do you do this? You want to play as a "good" character then you cook up thin justifications for acting Humane, but present it as pragmatism. If you want to choose A because you don't like the idea of misleading innocent people into being expendable pawns for an immortal monster, just say so. I actually agree with that. But I'm not going to start saying that it's the most beneficial choice, either, because it probably isn't. Doing what's right is hard - that's why vampires, especially elders, tend to be such horrible cunts. However, it's precisely because it's so hard that I find trying to stay humane so compelling.

They won't do shit against us if they're ghouled. You know this. Even if they find out, the blood bond will render them incapable of acting against us. We won't even need to maintain eye contact to Dominate them. The only thing stopping us from enslaving them utterly is Anthony's notoriously shoddy conscience.

I say we give these guys the red pill and show them how far the rabbit hole goes, just like Morpheus.

There are a few decent "practical" reasons for this, like letting these guys know what they're going to be up against, but my main reason for being honest is so that these guys know what sort of life they're going to be getting into and how things are going to change. It's the "right", Humanity choice. A few might decide to leave, but I'm betting that with Tony's innate charisma and some use of PRESENCE, we'll have very little turnover. Anybody who decides to leave can easily be mind-wiped via DOMINATE and then they won't threaten the Masquerade. We can't just pretend we're not vampires forever in front of these guys - they'll figure it out eventually. I like keeping things out in the open.

Besides, I've been itching to use or abilities on some people. It's been too long since Tony's exerted some vampiric power on somebody.

So on that note, A

 

[Excidium]

I don't like A, being direct like that just doesn't work. It's too much shit for a mortal mind to handle. If it was simple like that the Masquerade wouldn't exist.

What the hell do you people want, to tie them on chairs and force your blood down their throats if they don't find the idea of serving undead freaks awesome?

We have time, let's do it the right way. First let's indoctrinate them, they're soldiers, it's easy to manipulate their minds, specially for a guy like Anthony. You don't need to ghoulify them right away.

Better to reveal information gradually:

-Show the enemy.

-Show the fate humans have in the hands of the Sabbat vampires.

- Present the Camarilla as the wonderful good vamps tasked with keeping the evil vamps out of London.

-And then you show the ones that didn't go insane how you can enhance their abilities to fight against this enemy...

 

[Kashmir Slippers]

B.

Sommers is a diplomat. He should know what is best to tell the soldiers for his and their sakes.

 

[Bob]

A

Best to know which ones are gonna kick up a fuss over it from the outset. Then you can mind-rape them before you let them go, or decide how hard to screw them if you're gonna keep them.

Specops guys are fairly smart, for soldiers at least. They spend a lot of time learning to interact with the cultures they're going to be around and very little time in uniform. Learning languages and customs, how to read a situation - in addition to whatever more specialised skill they've acquired as part of the unit. Weapons training generally covers a vast range in a very short space of time. Then you've got anything specific they do like VIP protection, jump certification....

They may not be spook smart but there is some independent thinking going on. They're gonna figure it out.

 

[Esquilax]

I don't like A, being direct like that just doesn't work. It's too much shit for a mortal mind to handle. If it was simple like that the Masquerade wouldn't exist.

What the hell do you people want, to tie them on chairs and force your blood down their throats if they don't find the idea of serving undead freaks awesome?

We have time, let's do it the right way. First let's indoctrinate them, they're soldiers, it's easy to manipulate their minds, specially for a guy like Anthony. You don't need to ghoulify them right away.

Better to reveal information gradually:

-Show the enemy.

-Show the fate humans have in the hands of the Sabbat vampires.

- Present the Camarilla as the wonderful good vamps tasked with keeping the evil vamps out of London.

-And then you show the ones that didn't go insane how you can enhance their abilities to fight against this enemy...

Some good points about indoctrination, but I honestly don't think Tony needs it. Why present the Camarilla as the "good guys"? After all, this is our personal unit, their loyalties should be solely to Anthony, not to these assholes in the Camarilla who have been undermining us at every turn. We have to let our troops know that the people on our own side can be snakes too so that they can be prepared for possible betrayal on the Camarilla's end. The war has been going very well for the Camarilla so far, and I don't think that the other Barons are above trying to get our squad killed off somehow if they view them as a threat. If we had opted to cede control of the unit to the Camarilla, B would've been better, but since it's our personal unit, I think we have to be honest.

I am a bit uneasy about hiding the fact that we're also vampires from them, which is what B would presumably entail. It's not the sort of secret you can easily keep. They're going to eventually figure out that we have the exact same habits as the prey they're hunting; as Bob said, special ops guys are pretty goddamn observant. Also, Humphrey is a bro and I don't like tricking his old pal like that.

If they know that we're vampires from the get-go, we'll be able to give them better instruction on killing vampires; we can teach them by using our (and Eddie's) abilities during combat training. It's one thing to be told that vampires can shrug off a hail of gunfire or that they can close in and chop someone up in the blink of an eye, but it's quite another to train for those exact circumstances beforehand so that you're really prepared when the shit hits the fan. Essentially it's the difference between being told what a boxing combination is vs actually sparring and perfecting it against a live opponent.

Sure we might get one guy who decides to want out, but I'm betting that Anthony's persuasiveness will ensure that very few recruits will want to leave. The recruits that remain will be very well-trained - it's a good trade-off, IMO. Do you want 6 guys that aren't sure what to expect from the enemy and haven't faced what they're capable of, or 4-5 guys who know exactly how to deal with the enemy because they've trained for that enemy a million times before?

Finally, since Anthony will very likely be sticking to Humanity, I find that this is the most morally acceptable option for him. There's an element of deception in all the other options, but in A, even though you're persuasive, you never actively omit any important details. Anyways, that's my take on it.

 

[Excidium]

Hmm, makes sense. I'll flop to A).

Ghouling works a lot better when it's a voluntary act so none of that forced bullshit, specially because it would be too much out of his character.

 

[laclongquan]

Why present your side as good guy? Because we need to use Kine, that's why.

Kindred is different from normal unknowing Kine is that they know, deep in their soul, they are damned. Mythological descendant of the 1st Killer, Realistically prey on sapiens for sustenance, those facts fuck them up in the head. They are damned and therefore pretending to be good guys or bad guys make not much sense among their kinds.

However unknowing Kine is not like that. Humans dont prey on sapiens to live and they believe mythologically they are images of god(s). They want to believe themselves to be 'good guy'.

in this operation Sommers need Kine muscles therefore he will have to pander to Kine's beliefs. Hell, even Humphrey need to believe that Sommers' side is 'good' side. Therefore he will try to present his side as 'good'. This shit is pure Kine manipulation, oi.

And my choosing AAAAAAAAAA is depending on two very practical factors: Because the squad know almost all the truths and being ghoul themselves, the Masquerade is kept. AND they can be brief fully in whatever they need to know. Those are very important, oi. And the second factor will enhance their effectiveness.

 

[Azael]

I'm going to go with A. These will be our sword and scalpel and they need to know what they are up against, they also need to know that good old Tony is the only vampire they can fully trust. These guys aren't idiots and they will likely connect the dots sooner or later, better that it is us who control what information they get and how they get it.

Sommers' strength is Kine relations, this should be right up his alley. After all, he must have had "the talk" with Humphrey at the start of their relationship and he was just a politician, not a hardened soldier.

 

[ironyuri]

I'm going to go with A. These will be our sword and scalpel and they need to know what they are up against, they also need to know that good old Tony is the only vampire they can fully trust. These guys aren't idiots and they will likely connect the dots sooner or later, better that it is us who control what information they get and how they get it.

Sommers' strength is Kine relations, this should be right up his alley. After all, he must have had "the talk" with Humphrey at the start of their relationship and he was just a politician, not a hardened soldier.

Alright, fuck yas cunts.

Flopping to A.

 

[SCO]

How are you going to deal with the floppers?

It's not like those will freak out openly - they'll lay low and get out of dodge.

Maybe if you use dominate to ascertain their true intentions before letting them out of the "interview" and mindwipe those that are going to make trouble. That would also be a good little demonstration.

Then i will flop to A.

Besides, dangling immortality over them is a damn powerful incentive too - it's even traditional.


I also wouldn't discount the possibility they ARE briefed already, or were chosen for their high patriotism so they could be a information pump for the MI5 - it's only logical for a government to want their own dudes feeding them information about the world under the masquerade.

 

[Rod Rodderson]

A, for few original reasons. Should be simple enough to take an eraser to the minds of any who object, even after having the benefits explained.

We could also, hypothetically, teach them each a dot of Fortitude after a bit. Them knowing what we're doing would only help that process.

 

[Storyfag]

How are you going to deal with the floppers?

It's not like those will freak out openly - they'll lay low and get out of dodge.

Simple, really. They stay at the base and don't get to leave untill the training with Anthony and Fellowes is complete. And guess what completes the training. Ghoulification Those who won't partake in Anthony's blood of their own accord may be forced to do so through a simple: 'Drink.'

On that account, I am willing to flop to A.

EDIT:

Also, the troopers needn't know ALL the properties of Vitae when Anthony offers them a drink. We can tell them it will make them stronger, more resilient and perhaps faster and nothing more. Yes, they will start to have more and more positive feelings towards Anthony after drinking his blood. What a strange coincidence

I once had my PnP Tzimisce trick several bodybuilding thugs into drinking his Vitae by claiming it's an anabolic of some sort. Did it make them stronger like he promised? Yes. Did they know about the side effect of becoming his servants? No. But once they drank it was too late for them. This situation is exactly identical.

 

[Black Bart Charley]

The vast Charlotte Towers apartment block embarrasses the skyline of Gipsy Hill, which is itself leafy and rather flat, filled on all sides with the small red-bricked semi-detached homes that would have been part of a picturesque suburban dream before London rolled out and swallowed them.

Liked that line.

I like the new sheriff and how the centurion pussy'ed out.

Voting CCC

Real world history shows that dictatorships fail not because the conditions of the people get worse but because the iron grip gets softer.

Voting CCC

 

[Azael]

I'm not sure the Centurion pussied out, he's not exactly a sane man, this Row Man, Low Man.

 

[Breaking Axe]

Stepping in to vote A with the proviso that we dominate the ones who balk when shown the truth and suss out the motives of each individual carefully.

Edit: Agh, I can see the arguments for B as well, better that they slowly be brought up to scratch than it being dumped on them all at once, the extraordinary needs time to feel ordinary. Okay, flipping to B

 

[SCO]

Don't forget ghouls can frenzy.

 

[Esquilax]

Simple, really. They stay at the base and don't get to leave untill the training with Anthony and Fellowes is complete. And guess what completes the training. Ghoulification Those who won't partake in Anthony's blood of their own accord may be forced to do so through a simple: 'Drink.'

On that account, I am willing to flop to A.

EDIT:

Also, the troopers needn't know ALL the properties of Vitae when Anthony offers them a drink. We can tell them it will make them stronger, more resilient and perhaps faster and nothing more. Yes, they will start to have more and more positive feelings towards Anthony after drinking his blood. What a strange coincidence

I once had my PnP Tzimisce trick several bodybuilding thugs into drinking his Vitae by claiming it's an anabolic of some sort. Did it make them stronger like he promised? Yes. Did they know about the side effect of becoming his servants? No. But once they drank it was too late for them. This situation is exactly identical.

That's pretty awesome. I honestly wouldn't have expected a Tzimisce to do something that subtle - it's a tactic more befitting a Ventrue, Lasombra or even a Toreador.

If a member of Humphrey's team decides he doesn't want to get involved, Anthony can simply Dominate him into forgetting anything he's seen and send him back to his ignorant, regular life. But you raise a good question: how much do we tell these guys about the properties of Vitae? Since A is winning, I'm assuming we're telling them that (1) Tony and Eddie are vampires representing an organization that secretly coexists within human society, (2) We hired them to fight the Sabbat, a brutal organization that is extremely violent towards humans, and (3) that we'll be training them to hunt Sabbat vampires.

However, how much are we going to tell these guys about the process of becoming a ghoul? Do we say:

A1) It's a miracle drug. Makes you stronger, faster, gives you supernatural powers and makes you better in the sack. You'll look and feel younger than ever! Best part is... NO SIDE AFFECTS! Buy two blood bags for the low, low price of $29.99, and get another one free! What are you waiting for? This offer won't last long, so pick up that phone now!

A2) Er... there may be a few complications if you drink this. You'll be inclined to think more positively of the person who gave you the blood. Sacrifice is part of being a soldier, and you've all sacrificed far more in your tour of duty than taking a drink and following a few orders.

A3) Fellas, I'm not gonna sugar-coat this. Three drinks of this stuff, and you become my eternal slave. If you think that's worth immortality, an oppurtunity to face the biggest challenge of your careers, the chance to serve this country in a way that no human being has ever done before, and to be part of something bigger, join me. If not, I'll mindwipe you into forgetting what you've heard tonight, and tomorrow you'll wake up in France, where you'll fit in just fine with all the other pussies.

 

[Excidium]

A1. Nobody would accept being ghouled if they knew the severity of side effects...

 

[Storyfag]

That's pretty awesome.

Thanks!

I honestly wouldn't have expected a Tzimisce to do something that subtle - it's a tactic more befitting a Ventrue, Lasombra or even a Toreador.

Well, preparing the ground for a Crusade while posing as a Tremere in a city ruled by a neutral Nosferatu Prince installed by the Supreme Brujah Soviet while they were still in power is not a task during which one can indulge one's normal urges. Once I can openly declare myself as a Bishop (or, perhaps the Archbishop, Caine willing) of Warsaw, I will be able to do such things the proper way: ask a pack to kidnap some Kine and force the Vitae down their throats...

However, how much are we going to tell these guys about the process of becoming a ghoul? Do we say:

A1) It's a miracle drug. Makes you stronger, faster, gives you supernatural powers and makes you better in the sack. You'll look and feel younger than ever! Best part is... NO SIDE AFFECTS! Buy two blood bags for the low, low price of $29.99, and get another one free! What are you waiting for? This offer won't last long, so pick up that phone now!

A2) Er... there may be a few complications if you drink this. You'll be inclined to think more positively of the person who gave you the blood. Sacrifice is part of being a soldier, and you've all sacrificed far more in your tour of duty than taking a drink and following a few orders.

A3) Fellas, I'm not gonna sugar-coat this. Three drinks of this stuff, and you become my eternal slave. If you think that's worth immortality, an oppurtunity to face the biggest challenge of your careers, the chance to serve this country in a way that no human being has ever done before, and to be part of something bigger, join me. If not, I'll mindwipe you into forgetting what you've heard tonight, and tomorrow you'll wake up in France, where you'll fit in just fine with all the other pussies.

I'd be all for A1 if they were brainless brutes. But we're not recruiting szlachta material here and these guys might begin to suspect something. Still, Dominate, Presence and Anthony's oratory talents should help us alleviate their suspicions. Got to think this over though.

 

[Excidium]

They're not brainless brutes but they're just mortals, they don't know shit about what's going on. Seriously, if Anthony can't manipulate a bunch of mortals I think he should be kicked out of the Ventrue club.

 

[Esquilax]

They're not brainless brutes but they're just mortals, they don't know shit about what's going on. Seriously, if Anthony can't manipulate a bunch of mortals I think he should be kicked out of the Ventrue club.

That's true. If they knew what being a ghoul entailed, they wouldn't go for it. I don't think anybody would trade magic powers, super-strength and immortality provided by a steady supply of blood in exchange for unquestioning servititude to a monster for as long as you live. *sigh* You just can't stay humane here.

Well, how about this, if they refuse to become ghouls, we just mindwipe them and let them go. If they accept, we feed them vitae, but don't tell them about the side effects?

 

[Storyfag]

They're not brainless brutes but they're just mortals, they don't know shit about what's going on. Seriously, if Anthony can't manipulate a bunch of mortals I think he should be kicked out of the Ventrue club.

True. On that note: A1 it is!

Well, how about this, if they refuse to become ghouls, we just mindwipe them and let them go. If they accept, we feed them vitae, but don't tell them about the side effects?

I'd still Dominate the unwilling ones to drink the Vitae anyway.

 

[Esquilax]

I'd still Dominate the unwilling ones to drink the Vitae anyway.

I'd rather retain some bare thread of Humanity so that we're not completely shitty people. Let's give them a real choice to leave if they decide they want to come back to their normal lives. We're still assholes for misleading them, but at least they had the chance to leave from the get-go instead of going BioWare on them and making them drink our vitae anyways if they refuse.

My main argument against this is if we make them drink the Vitae, we're really no better than BioWare by offering people fake choices. Do you really want Tony to end up like BioWare, Storyfag? Because I sure don't. Today Tony's giving people choices that don't amount to anything, tomorrow he's having gay sex with his Toreador underling, Eddie. It's a slippery slope, my friend.