Let's Play VtM: Wild Nights - Chapter 10

[laclongquan]

I think the vamp died in Prologue is the muscle washed ashore. The second must be keeping watch around and be captured soon after. This is an assassination to save Prince's face because one of his major allies was in cahoot with those crowds. Not good, not good. highly possible the old baron is the organizer of this little tete a tete.

 

[Esquilax]

3. Back to our original plan: Negotiate with Sabbat for Terrance. We can bluff most truthfully: Negotiate with me or a lot of your Sabbats gonna die tonight and we are not bluffing. Last chance for you, old chaps. Heh. And it will be a very quick negotiation, just so we arrive the rendevous with results. Lots of fangs and barons will be grateful for this because it mean they wont have to die in Sabbat hands to strengthen Prince's rule. And if the Sabbat say truthfully that they know nothing about Terrance's whereabout? Ding Dong! Final Result we need to prevent the massacre.

I advise we go with 3rd method, which will be D. It's time for quick action and quick tongue.

Audacity, always audacity. Within reasons.

-Ventrue's motto, or it damn well should be-

So indeed, It's DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD.

EDIT: just read the Prologue, but it dont make me change my minds. Edit a few things above.

Dude, the Sabbat don't give a fuck if their own guys die tonight. They are loony cultists - if the Sabbat aren't ready for war, then nobody is. What is our bargaining chip? What do we have to offer that would get them to provide us with Rannigan, even if they did have him (which they almost certainly don't)? We have nothing that would make them so afraid that they would negotiate with us.

And even if on the extremely unlikely chance that Dubrik doesn't laugh at us, what are we gonna say at the meeting? "Hey guys, just had a chat over the phone with the Sabbat leader, he says they don't have Rannigan. Everybody go home now."

 

[laclongquan]

3. Back to our original plan: Negotiate with Sabbat for Terrance. We can bluff most truthfully: Negotiate with me or a lot of your Sabbats gonna die tonight and we are not bluffing. Last chance for you, old chaps. Heh. And it will be a very quick negotiation, just so we arrive the rendevous with results. Lots of fangs and barons will be grateful for this because it mean they wont have to die in Sabbat hands to strengthen Prince's rule. And if the Sabbat say truthfully that they know nothing about Terrance's whereabout? Ding Dong! Final Result we need to prevent the massacre.

I advise we go with 3rd method, which will be D. It's time for quick action and quick tongue.

Audacity, always audacity. Within reasons.

-Ventrue's motto, or it damn well should be-

So indeed, It's DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD.

EDIT: just read the Prologue, but it dont make me change my minds. Edit a few things above.

Dude, the Sabbat don't give a fuck if their own guys die tonight. They are loony cultists - if the Sabbat aren't ready for war, then nobody is. What is our bargaining chip? What do we have to offer that would get them to provide us with Rannigan, even if they did have him (which they almost certainly don't)? We have nothing that would make them so afraid that they would negotiate with us.

And even if on the extremely unlikely chance that Dubrik doesn't laugh at us, what are we gonna say at the meeting? "Hey guys, just had a chat over the phone with the Sabbat leader, he says they don't have Rannigan. Everybody go home now."

The vase, hellooooo, the fucking vase in our possession? I always favor negotiation because I know we have bargaining chip from the start.

And even bloodthirsty Sabbat wont be so stupidly suicidal. Suicidal, yeah, but not stupidly. The key of negotiation is do the deeds with strong position:

1. We call their Bishop on his personal cell. Impressive intelligence.

2. We have what they want. A strong factor.

3. We are ready to resort to *enough* violence if negotiation doesnt come through. A sure fire sweetener.

4. We leave them a way to save face: their Bishop get back his vase, we get back our baron. Wow, Dubrik got eyes for valuable things or what. no sirree, certainly not because Sabbat back down in face of strength and destruction.

Negotiation will work this case and work very fast.

 

[laclongquan]

No u.

I say it's a way to save face, not because it's true. If negotiation fall through everybody will think that Bishop did all the crazy shits to get back his vase, which show ONE he got good eyes for valuable thing TWO he do crazy shits to get valuable things. They DONT think or say out loud with proof that Sabbat back down in the face of total war with Camarilla. This is what we call politic and negotiation.

You, root, dont really understand both. You favour direct actions and gut feelings. It could work if you play that kind of characters but a goddamn death wish if you play diplomatic types like Ventrue or Torreador. You dont have the instinct for them.

 

[ironyuri]

save face with whom? you think they'll buy that bishop whathisname kidnapped a baron to get a vase back?

this is turning into a serious throwdown.

An artist's rendition of laclongquan and root:

I still think we have to be politic within the Camarilla, rather than turning to the Sabbat to solve our problems. Right now we're quite possibly facing the Final Death. There may not even be a raid in the works, but rather a trap set by the Prince and du Marchais to dispose of our ventrue who they will, I presume, know is antagonistic to their goals.

The raid could just be a ruse to get us out there and to get us killed, we don't know that yet. If we alert the Sabbat to a non-existant raid which causes them, especially their Spymaster who has it in for us, to lose face, they'll come after us with more firepower in the future. If we play along with du Marchais for the moment we can salvage something or at the very least dodge the sunrise for another night while we make our plans.

Dubrik will likely just hang us out to dry. If he's any kind of spymaster, he'll know that something is brewing with the London camarilla and will know that we're either in for the final death or that there is a raid coming and have the necessary precautions in place.

We have to be savvy and sometimes savvy means bowing your head and eating the shit people shovel for you until they become complacent enough to forget about the dagger in your hand. du Marchais thinks he's got us where he wants us- if he cooked up the Sabbat raid (just like we had the option to do when we first heard about the kidnapping) out of desperation, then we have what we need to ensure the whole thing backfires.

Edit- I didn't address the vase, apologies. The vase is a bargaining chip, but it only has personal power over Dubrik who wants it, or our head. Right now we're not tussling with Dubrik, we're tussling with du Marchais and Kirkbeck. Dubrik likely won't negotiate, but rather just send in more shovelheads hoping to destabilise the London Camarilla and its ineffectual Prince even more. We might even be killed in the raid, which means he can get his vase or satisfaction.

 

[grotsnik]

"I come, old friend, from hell tonight,
Across the rotting sea.
Nor the nails of the Cross
Nor the blood of Christ
Can bring you help this eve."

Waitwaitwaitwait, that's not the Malk. That's Oscar. He's singing a Pogues song to keep his spirits up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6fFJX4OkDw It has no symbolic significance, the lyrics are just awesome. Sorry if that was unclear.

Spoiler

Yeah, and the unnamed vampire in the beginning was indeed the Prince's muscle.

 

[ironyuri]

Pogues is good work bronik.



Also, good work for that poker comment earlier, root. Gave me some serious laughs, had to close my office door as I tried to imagine laying down your hand at a poker game and immediately being assaulted by a huge black cock.

 

[laclongquan]

Mhmmm~

Do remember that Prince and Baron is not the whole Camarrila. they are not even representative of the barons. This operation is a ploy of Prince in order to bolster his rule. Remember a similar ploy used by the LA Prince?

So if you either remove the cause of the operation which is Terrance's disappearance OR find way to get barons support us, the threat over our head will be lessened. Dont try to kiss ass to Prince, he's a lost cause.

The vase is both a bargaining chip for Terrance AND the saving face gesture that the Sabbat will accept. For Dubrik, it's the vase. For other Sabbat, it's the termination of this major operation against them. That's why I said the Sabbat will agree to it.

Mind you, the Sabbat could deny that they hold him AND expose just which cabal Terrance belonged to, in order to poke at Camarilla. In that case we have proof that Terrance is just a nogood bum that no selfrespecting Camarilla vamp should bleed for. Prince wont like us but other barons will, because they dont like this operation and want any excuse to abort it. An egg to the Prince's face is just a bonus.

Call Sabbat, I urge you.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Nice twist. I say go with B.

But call tremere regent before / while you are driving to the meeting. We need info (is this just a trap to get us killed?) and support. And the regent can provide both (for a price, of course; but we have some info to trade with ourselves).

 

[SCO]

looks like a baali


Expect Terrance to appear again, turned.

 

[laclongquan]

that's a lot of assumptions you're making there

1) that this is the prince's idea (i disagree)

2) that the sabbat want to save face (again, I disagree, what do they care?)

3) that the sabbat care about a petty raid against their thin-blooded neophytes (same as above)

4) that rannigan is part of a cabal? this was p. much confirmed as wrong when the prince's muscle said rannigan was messing with people the sabbat wouldn't want to shake hands with

See? The evidence before your eyes but you insist on a upside down interpretation

1. Terrance was part of a cabal so dark sabbat wouldnt associate, Prince's men abducted him and planned to kill him but fumbled the business. So the prince want to hunt two birds with one operation: both determine whether Terrance in Sabbat's dens or not and bolster his rule.

2. Sabbat want to avoid a confrontation when they are NOT the aggressors.

3. A petty raid? A summon from the Prince to All Camarilla and you say a petty raid? what basis behind this assumption of yours?

Whatever. If you insist on being willfully stupid, far be it from me to keep you from such. My reasons and arguments are fully presented on the table. Anyone care to read can see it.

 

[grotsnik]

Chapter index updated! And BBC will feel vindicated to know that I have absolutely no fucking clue what vote is winning right now.

Btw, ironyuri, I haven't forgotten about your suggestion for a character sheet. Twill be done.

EDIT: I don't want to butt in too much in case it sways anybody unfairly, but to those speculating that Dubrik will definitely know about the raid; he's the spymaster in Liverpool, in the north of the UK, and he keeps a lot of balls rolling in cities all across the country. So while he may know everything you know and a lot more, the fact that you managed to successfully steal from him before suggests that he isn't omniscient in London.

 

[SCO]

i bet setite. besides, they have a discipline that can avoid stake through the heart.

Shrug. Followers of Set are not particularly monstrous - their preferred method of fucking you up is talk. The thing in the video was described as not having a human outline.

Another (nasty) alternative is the Nictuku. Doubt that they would care about a prince associate though.

And you should have gone with my cunning plan.

Calling the sabbat is amazingly stupid though. They'll just melt away and call the prince's phone in the metting. It's final night for you m'boy.

 

[Esquilax]

I still think we have to be politic within the Camarilla, rather than turning to the Sabbat to solve our problems. Right now we're quite possibly facing the Final Death. There may not even be a raid in the works, but rather a trap set by the Prince and du Marchais to dispose of our ventrue who they will, I presume, know is antagonistic to their goals.

The raid could just be a ruse to get us out there and to get us killed, we don't know that yet. If we alert the Sabbat to a non-existant raid which causes them, especially their Spymaster who has it in for us, to lose face, they'll come after us with more firepower in the future. If we play along with du Marchais for the moment we can salvage something or at the very least dodge the sunrise for another night while we make our plans.

Dubrik will likely just hang us out to dry. If he's any kind of spymaster, he'll know that something is brewing with the London camarilla and will know that we're either in for the final death or that there is a raid coming and have the necessary precautions in place.

We have to be savvy and sometimes savvy means bowing your head and eating the shit people shovel for you until they become complacent enough to forget about the dagger in your hand. du Marchais thinks he's got us where he wants us- if he cooked up the Sabbat raid (just like we had the option to do when we first heard about the kidnapping) out of desperation, then we have what we need to ensure the whole thing backfires.

Edit- I didn't address the vase, apologies. The vase is a bargaining chip, but it only has personal power over Dubrik who wants it, or our head. Right now we're not tussling with Dubrik, we're tussling with du Marchais and Kirkbeck. Dubrik likely won't negotiate, but rather just send in more shovelheads hoping to destabilise the London Camarilla and its ineffectual Prince even more. We might even be killed in the raid, which means he can get his vase or satisfaction.

Absolutely, I agree with you 100%. We need to fall on our swords right now and only reveal the info at the right moment. I think that if the whole thing does turn out to be a trap, we have Edgar and enough of our own skills to get away in one piece. Not saying we are bad motherfuckers in a fight, but after Edgar's training, we have enough to put a Kindred down and get away (dumdum bullets ftw) with our hide intact, especially with the Toreador at our back.

 

[SCO]

Too late now.
0) find out the sabbat location with the home sec
1) visit du Marchais, give him the vase
2) leak the info to the mole, along with information about duMarchais security
3) watch the sabat movements
4) when they move, raid the place (with the anarchs preferably)

In fact this raid may have been introduced to prevent just this.
OhOhoh
If the vase is not so important, setup a "private meeting" or something irresistible like that.

 

[SCO]

Since Tarrence is obviously not on their headquarters, this would just simplify the game unacceptably i guess. I wanted to kill that Lasombra prick and duMarchais, with us smelling like rose petals. If they don't die, they get weakened (especially duMarchais), that is just fine too.

I am unsure what to do now. I am against calling the sabbat - a true ventrue doesn't betray the sect, especially not to a backstabbing Lasombra.

 

[laclongquan]

Snort.

 

[SCO]

BTW, the Lasombra might just get the information about the raid anyway from the mole/setite.


We aren't even very high up on the hierarchy. Maybe maybe there are more moles. Anyway, a general mobilization like this is impossible to keep secret. They probably already know, and we have shit to negotiate with.

 

[Storyfag]

So. They're setting us up while we *almost* have the real solution to Rannigan's disappearence. Given the intel Oscar gave us, I'm sure Rannigan won't be in the Sabbat den. This means that either:
1) Du Marchais is a fool, and the Prince is double the fool, and they truly believe he is there. Slim chance.
2) Du Marchais is a fool, and the Prince is scheming to increase his power by uniting everyone behind him in an anti-Sabbat crusade. More likely than the above.
3) Du Marchais is scheming to gut us in the firefight, and the Prince is scheming to increase his power as above. As likely as the above.
4) Du Marchais is scheming to gut us in the firefight, and the Prince is a fool. Not as likely as the above, but more likely than 1)
5) This is a complete setup against us and only us. There is no meeting at all, and both Du Marchais and the Prince are out to get specifically us. Slimmest chance. What would the Prince care about us? We're in no position to endanger him.

As much as I want to defect to the Sabbat, the conditions for that are suboptimal at the moment. We've got too few bargaining chips, even should we count our influence among the Kine (something the Sabbat looks down on on one hand, but desperately lacks on the other). We *could* offer them the Prince's head on a platter, but that won't work at the moment. Not when *all* of London Camarilla will be there to fight.

So let's consider our other options. If it's Du Marchais' scheme, we should be pretty safe there. If it's the Prince's doing, we know too much. HOWEVER the Prince needn't know what we learned. And we need to learn more stuff.

Let's:

CALL THE TREMERE REGENT And ask her about the planned raid. If she didn't hear anything about it, we're being set up. So we'll gracefully tell her about the Prince's summons and hope she turns up. Maybe we could ask her to tell other Barons about it too? If she know about the meeting, we should be fine.

Either way we should:

B) Attend the Camarilla meeting; go along with du Marchais' explanation. For now. But we should take the evidence with us anyway, to reveal it should shit hit the fan.

 

[SCO]

Ok, i want to do this then:

Call the sheriff. Show/send her the video, but tell her you go along with the raid to consolidate the prince power.

duMarchais reward will be death i think.

then go to the meeting with the evidence you have.

@storyfag : we don't have her phone, we didn't contact her instead of the ravnos, and haven't had enough time.

The raid will end in disaster anyway (if it goes through and we aren't preemptively attacked), but we will prob survive. This is exactly what the setite wanted, likely, so he will alert the sabbat if he is involved.

 

[Storyfag]

@storyfag : we don't have her phone, we didn't contact her instead of the ravnos, and haven't had enough time.

Oops, silly me. Let's go with this then:

Call the sheriff. Show/send her the video, but tell her you go along with the raid to consolidate the prince power.

 

[SCO]

In the list, we don't have the sheriff number either, but in reality we have it now, since she called us. The number will be in the phone.


@root you advise silence then? This means that the information about the prince or duMarchais will become dangerous to us, if we expose it to the prince publicly. Either he is is shown to be a fool or to be asshole. Privately duMarchais would prob still be fucked, but he might just ask you how and WHEN did you get it. The prince has dominate and is higher gen than you btw.

 

[SCO]

I am assuming (as in ass) that the sheriff is loyal to the prince. After all, if not, the prince should already be dead no?

 

[SCO]

Another way is to betray the prince from the inside.

Go along with the raid (that will be disastrous). After the disaster meet up with sammy and imply the prince is a incompetent (show her the video). Form a coup faction.

Of course, tremere ALSO have dominate as well as blood bonds (a good player would blood bond you immediately as Serious_Business said). And in the larger scenario i don't like this. Plays into the sabbat hands.

 

[Zero Credibility]

@storyfag : we don't have her phone, we didn't contact her instead of the ravnos, and haven't had enough time.

Wait, wait. We know her and have some influence with her, she is a tremere regent and a baron, but we don't have a way of contacting her? That not very smart of us at all.