In Progress Let's Play: Neverwinter Nights 2 (and expansions)

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its good to do so. it gives more experience when reading it.
besides. saying shit sucks would provoke a 'why does it suck?' thought in the reader. then u respond. good job , man.

You're lucky to not have chosen Alpha Popamole in a blind LP instead.

Trust me, it's worse, much worse, even if shorter.

I got Alpha Protocol for $2 of a Steam sale a while back, and I would say it was worth the money. The games not great, it's arguably not even good, but I completed it and had some dumb fun with it. Never touched it since, but I think it's superior to the OC that NWN2 offers. Cheesy B Movie with gameplay that is a shitty popamole version of Deus Ex > cliché boring fantasy RPG to me.

Thanks, glad to hear it.

Enjoy it, keep it up.

I love Alpha Protocol (THIS MUCH) but I can see the challenges you'll face if you're doing screenshot LP.
The time based dialogue is one thing...but the trippy action sequence need a video playback badly.

Can't wait for the Orc caves.

Don't forget Gimli and fake-Annah. Should be pretty damn rage-worthy.

I think it's okay, wouldn't bother me as long as you don't get too verbose and rant-y with it.

I mean, half the people here are taking potshots at when you'll abandon the OC and you haven't set yourself up to do more of a funny/comedic LP w/ jokes and crazy shit. So I don't see the problem in snarkily explaining why every part of the game is shit. Personally, I actually liked the Trial of Ember sequence (a lot) in how it integrated different approaches/arguments/skillsets into one big dialog challenge, which is how RPGs ought to handle dialog challenges rather than one click instant win bullshit, but they fucked it up by going all BioWarean and making it lead to the same conclusion.

Kudos for starting this and I hope you're able to pull through the OC without getting bored and with your sanity intact.

First, I commend the effort you are putting in the commentary; that's pretty much the only reason to read this all

However, since voices in my head made me finish the NWN2 OC twice in years past, I must say: sanity damage incoming. If you really have heaps of free time, there are *way* better pastimes to waste it on. I mean, if you're dead set on playing "Hours upon hours of BSB: The Game" Ironman mode (as you seem to be), do what thou wilt - but remember: when you stare too long at the derp, it stares right back and laughs (but its face never remembers). And when you attempt to analyze the derp and think of obvious ways to improve it (as you seem to be with your running commentary), faith in humanity evaporates in great great stinking clouds (centered on the caster)...
M:

Commentary is good the way it is now, keep it so.
Your foster father may be able to only cast Cure Light Wounds once a day, but in NWN2 that means once every 5 seconds. This makes it totally justifiable for him to stay with the wounded
Dialogue checks are a nice touch, but in NWN2 they added most of them to avoid some boss fights (at least from what I remember of the beginning). In the case of this dungeon it just makes no sense that after slaughtering almost his whole tribe he'd go 'OK, I guess it was all a misunderstanding'. Why they couldn't add an extra check with one of the lizard guards at the entrance to take you straight to the chieftain and skip the whole dungeon is beyond me.
Dragon Age OC >> NWN2 OC
I recommend you do what I did when you reach the orcs, turn god mode on and just ignore them to save sanity points.
Keep it coming, reading this is way better than playing through the crap that is the OC for anyone involved (except for you, you sadist)

The [Skill] tags really annoy me. If they weren't there, the dialogues could be an entertaining challenge : the player would have to use the gray stuff between his ears to guess which dialogue option is best suited to his skills (or, even better, which dialogue option is actually the smartest).

At least there is no [Intelligence]You fight the good fight with your voice!

Although it has been a long time so maybe I just forgot about it.

looking good so far, will certainly keep an eye on this thread

This update goes out to laclongquan, you may consider this whole post one giant smug smiley directed towards you. Enjoy.

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Map screen reeks of railroading. But then, I should have more faith in obsidian, it was a weak opening, but so was the opening of other games they’ve made. This is probably the point where the game gets good. (No, no it is not.) Off to the Weeping Willow Inn it is then.



Ah, yes. I remember this now. This Dwarf gets himself into shit with these thugs and you get drawn into the fight. Well, fuck that. I’m going to just leave and run for the exit. Screw your crappy characters, I’ll solo this bitch.





Dialog triggers automatically at a certain point. Ok, no harm I can still weasel my way out of this.

: You’re a small one to be taking this road all by yourself, dwarf. Maybe you’ve come looking for trouble… unless you have a little coin to convince us otherwise.

: Just leave me out of this.

I love when dialog options actually have an option that reflects exactly how you want to respond.

: My friend’s right, I believe all of you were threatening ME… if you ever decide to throw a punch that is. Even the stranger can see you’re too scared of your own shadows to do it.

: Is that so? Maybe both of you should pay, how ‘bout that?

Fuck you Dwarf. Actually, fuck you Obsidian, this is all entirely railroaded isn’t it? I can’t avoid this fight at all, not matter what I do.

: Come on, somebody hit me already… even the newcomer here sees you’re too afraid to do anything.

: All right, I’ve heard enough of this – come on, boys. Let’s deal with the Dwarf and his new friend.

New friend... you know I actually hate this Dwarf as much as you guys do. Surely I could just attack the Dwarf to help you out then have you angry merciless thugs as my party, that’d be pretty sweet. I’d probably enjoy that game.



No? Fine. But I want it on the record I’m quite bitter about this.

: Well, now, that was a good fight. A shame they had to resort to weapons, but if they have to keep the odds even, can’t blame them too much. Name’s Khelgar, by the way – of the Clan Ironfist. Been making my way along the Coast for some time now, stopped in the Willow here for a brief fight.

This is like that thing TNO was talking about. Unfortunately his review was lost to the depths of the decline when Codex 2.0 took over, but the bottom line of what he said is that all the characters are nothing more than walking clichés, that can be described with a single word. In Khelgar’s case, that word is “Dwarf”, you now know everything there is to know about Mr Ironfist.

: I wasn’t looking to get dragged into your fight.

That is almost exactly what happened, yes. I mean, I didn’t even move him towards this area, the god of the game decided that is what happened because fuck choice.

: Eh? Well, you could have fooled me – you handled yourself pretty well. Almost as well as I did, but that’s a high mark to reach for. So tell me, what brings you out along the Mere? Roads aren’t exactly safe you know – and they’re getting worse all the time.

: Where I travel is my own business.

: Now now, didn’t mean to start another fight – especially when we have such a fine tavern before us that has some untapped kegs we haven’t fought yet. I say we step inside the Weeping Willow here and share our stories over a few of the Innkeepers best.

Well, it’s not like I have a choice, so I guess so. No, really, I don’t even have a cosmetic Bioware style choice, it just fades to fucking black and from then on, Khelgar knows what you are doing, even though I basically just told him to go up himself moments ago. I never seen how railroaded this was the l last time I played, as I sort of went with it trying to enjoy myself, but here I am specifically trying to agitate myself to make the LP more amusing. Well, that and I am playing an evil character, which is quite clearly not supported as well as it could have been. It’s probably because they have a sequence of smaller areas to meet the party members. If you don’t have them in the group you’d get fucked up hard. So why not just make a medium sized hub area with a lump of party members you can recruit and a bunch of quests? Better than this journeying from scripted place to scripted place system.

: …so then I punched HIM in the face for asking, and while he was trying to pick his teeth of the floor, his friend decided to add a few choice words about my heritage. So I punched him, too. So to make a long story short, I take pride in what I do – fighting. It’s something you can’t get enough of, and it’s something where there’s always room for improvement, if you apply yourself – stay focused – and keep swinging. And that’s why I’m heading to Neverwinter. I heard there’s a house of monks there… a monastery, right? …heard they’ll train anyone, just for the asking. Couldn’t ask for a better opportunity.

Ok, I get it now, Khelgar is a physical representation of the crazy mentality of an adventurer. Always on the road, always starting fights with random people and ending up trading life stories with random wanderers. He also finds himself, starting with a simple and respectable wish (to join an order of monks) swept up in a greater story about an ultimate evil, where the real central character is a person he met and works with, but he is the muscle who did all the work. Or maybe that is just my mind trying to turn this tripe into something meaningful and interesting, either way.



Talk about spoiled for choice.

: Why a monk?

: As it happens, I didn’t ALWAYS want to become a monk, what happened was –

: The Kalach-Cha. Find it!

It’s funny because they clearly know I’m here, so instead of sending a large host to fuck my shit up, they send a small strike team that is neatly organized to coincide with the Challenge Rating that would be acceptable for my level and number of party members. There a walking bag of reused plot devices, sure, but you have to give them credit for their courtesy.

: Well, look at this – our next round of practice just arrived.



Spoiler: Combat wasn’t that great. After killing like, 4 guys, the combat if over and an NPC is screaming for help. Please god let me have some options here.



: Please, someone help me! There are more of those foul beats upstairs! They have my husband trapped!

: All right. But first let’s talk price.

Evil is doing good but getting paid for it, didn’t you know?

: Can’t say I approve of taking money for this, seeing as how it’s YOU they want.

: I won’t do this for any less than 50 gold.

: But… but I can’t afford that much!

: [Diplomacy] Is your husband’s life worth so little to you?

: [Failure] But I don’t have that much!

: Then find someone else to help you.

Feels good, mang.

: It’s up to you, lad. But I’d rather take care of things here than have them surprise me out on the road.

: Sorry, but I’m just not interested.

Khelgar: You disappoint me, Julian. But I’ll not judge you too harshly. It really isn’t your problem.

I disappointed Khelgar? Doing something right there. I’m normally pretty relaxed when it comes to characterization and forgiving of clichés. I mean, I like Alistair from Dragon Age, I like most of the characters in it, actually. Except, Oghren, he can fuck himself for the same reason Khelgar can. There is just NOTHING interesting or unique about the character in any way.

The only way to improve Khelgar would be to cut him from the game completely, and rewrite him as a completely different character, preferably not even as a Dwarf. I hate Dwarves, they are almost always the exact same damn character or a slight “twist” on it. “Oh yeah, he drinks mead, has a beard and worships his ancestors but he’s a pacifist!”, fuck that shit.



: Look, we’re headed in the same direction and you seem to have more enemies than friends, what say we travel together? Might be able to teach a few others a few things.

: I’m not keen on travelling with an insane Dwarf.

: Insane? Ha! Maybe one too many blows to the head, but I’ve toughened up since then. But let me prove it to you… so what do you say?



I place this here, where I normally don’t show dialog options just to point out that Obsidian has just taken to trolling players at this point. “Sure, we gave you the option to try and push Khelgar aside, but fuck you bitch, this is our story, you do what we say when we say”. Here is what the dialog options look like from my perspective.

1. Hahahaha, sucks to be you.
2. Take it, bitch.
3. Free will? What's that?

: Just stay out of my way in fights, that’s all I ask.

: You don’t even have to ask. I don’t steal another man’s kill – well, not on purpose anyway. And don’t worry about me keeping up – Khelgar Ironfist carries his own weight, I won’t be slowing you down.

Jesus Christ, the worst part about this is I know the next section of the game is even worse, so for your amusement, and my pain, I present Fort Locke:





Even though I have already decided to avoid all side quests just to make this as quick and focused as possible I decide to visit Mr Merchant man to delay the inevitable.

<massive image derp here, the guards threaten Galen though, no artists rendition I'm afraid, he broke his wrist drawing the last one>

: I’ll just be moving on, don’t mind me. (I forgot a screencap of this dialogue, so this is a close recreation)

: I’m afraid I can’t let you do that. No witnesses. After all, we wouldn’t want the authorities involved, would we? Brother! Attack!



: Once again you’ve saved my hide. I can’t believe my own guards would turn on me like that.

Wait, when did I save Galen? It can’t have been West harbor, we was gone during the attack… it’s presuming I went upstairs in the Weeping Willow. Galen was trapped up there, and you can rescue him. I didn’t and it presumed I did. God DAMN, man.

: I expect to get paid well for this.

: And a reward you shall get have, my friend. I am not ungrateful for your help.

A diplomacy check weasels more money out of him, not important or particularly interesting dialog. We run further down the road, the same way Galen did and get jumped by wolves. Galen uses his magical NPC powers to disappear into thin air.



And then…



Possibly the most annoying character of any game I have ever played. There are truly supernatural forces going on with this bitch. Her voice actor grates on me as if it was designed to do so, her character concept is once again two dimensional and she has this thing where she argues with everyone that makes me want to strangle whoever wrote her to death. Anyways:



: Leave me alone – I’ve done nothing to you!

: Well, now Commander Vallis will be happy to hear that. It means his work here’s all done, he can just give up the fort and go home.

: Still, there’s just the SMALL matter of those bounties on bandits he posted – and a bandit with demon blood, well, there’s no telling how much that’s worth.

: A-course, you COULD tell us where your camp is – Vallis will pay more for that, he will, and we won’t even have to butcher the lot of you.

: I told you, I’m NOT with those bandits – or are you deaf and stupid.



Using image for ridiculous pose in the screen capture.

: Eh – hold on, looks like she’s got friends, she does.

: This doesn’t concern you, we’re soldiers from Fort Locke, hunting bandits.

: That we are, caught this demon trying to raid our camp, and we were about to deal with her.

So, these guys are pretty much straight up Lawful Evil here, don’t think there can be much argument there. Position of authority, malicious intent within the extent of their power. Sounds like a mighty fine arrangement, let’s let them do their thing.

: Fine with me - don’t let me stop you.

: Oh, we weren’t going to let you stop us – this bounties ours.

: You know, Vallis might pay for THREE bandit bounties, he’s not one for asking questions…

: …especially a demon, a runty dwarf… and a dirty harborman who doesn’t know when to keep walking.

: “Runty Dwarf?”. I know you cowards aren’t talking to me, or you’ll be talking to my fist next.

: Good enough for me. Let’s kill them all and I’ll sort out the tale later.



Fuck this. Would it have really been so hard as to have made one of the Guards a possible party member, Lawful Evil type, or even Lawful neutral to be the counterbalance to Neeshka. Make them mutually exclusive. Side with the guards, get him, save Neeshka, get her. And I mean, I understand that neeshka has that stupid backstory in Neverwinter, but a guard could easily tie into that.

Instead of her having been involved in the underground, the guard served there and was involved in fucking shit up for them, and he left the city to protect himself. When he shows up in the city again, the criminals are like: “Oh shit, X is back, we can get him now”. It’s not like the characters are so complex that you can’t easily make another one.



: Sorry if I sound surprised – it’s just, you know, people don’t usually help me out like that… especially, uh, well, you know, people like you, you know. Nice-looking people. Does that make me a damsel in distress? I hope not, I hate those women.

: I wasn’t trying to save anyone. They attacked me, remember?

: Yeah. Lucky me, huh? Better to be lucky than good! Someone told me that once. It’s a good way to think about things sometimes, you know? I mean, once folks catch sight of me – usually it’s the horns – they run in the other direction. And all those tales about tieflings being cursed doesn’t help much, either. I’m Neeshka, by the way. I’m really glad you came when you did. Wasn’t really sure how I’d get out of that one. Of course, they never would’ve caught me in the first place if that “invisibility” potion I bought hadn’t been watered down. If I ever see that merchant again…

You know, this is almost physically painful to listen to. I mean, mentally the whole thing up to this point has been Class One assault, but this is almost causing physical pain. Ok, not really, but it probably could.

: I’ve wasted enough time here.

: Yeah, I guess you don’t have any reason to stay. Look, thanks for saving me… really. Do you… do you think I could join you? Just for now! I won’t get in the way, I promise! It’s just that I don’t know how long I can survive on my own, and… well… I do owe you one.

Over my dead fucking body.

: Can’t say I trust her. Tieflings’ll stab you in the back and run off with your purse the moment you drop your ground.

Khelgar has a purse? Maybe he’s a closeted homosexual, this character may be more complex then I first thought.

: Yeah? Well, dwarves are squat, smelly drunks who’ll chop someone in half just to show they’re tough!

Shut the.

: Oh, is that so? Why don’t you step down here and say that again!

Fuck up. This doesn’t stop. At the point I rage quit the last time I tried playing, the Orc Caves, funnily enough, Neeshka and other members at the party just wouldn’t shut their noise holes.

: But please – let me come with you. I owe you for saving me – and those soldiers will just try to kill me again if they catch me out here on my own.



“Hahahaha, sucks to be you” etc.

: Very well. But if you don’t pull your weight, we’ll leave you behind.

: Thanks! I won’t let you down, I swear. I think those Fort Locke thugs have my gear locked away here.

We grab the crap from the trunk and advance up the hill towards Fort Locke proper, a myriad of quests and possible problems await us, waiting to be resolved.



Pass. I head straight for the exit gate.





Mysterious Stalker Elf makes another appearance. Who is she, what does she want, why is she following us? If you are actually curious about the answer to any of these questions, please revaluate what you are doing with your life.

the companions continue to amuse me at how easy to hate their personality within seconds of meeting them.

Oh gooooooooooooooood, the road to Neverwinter was so. damn. miserable!

And then people mock me for liking Skyrim. Skyrim doesn't force and railroad ridiculous nonsense for 10 straight hours before the actual core game starts. If Skyrim were like Chapter 1 NWN2 OC, it would have forced you to have Barabas as a companion the moment you leave Helgen keep.

The railroading. The forced quests. The forced NPCs. The goals within a goal within a goal. NWN2 OC's Chapter 1 was among the worst gaming experiences I had. I believe the original NWN OC had a more tolerable opening chapter.

To me it didn't seem that bad, but when I read your LP. Damn. All the memories come back

It's...atrocious, really. The story shouldn't require these bastards to be alive later on, and often doesn't (I know Shandra, Bishop, Khelgar and a few others move the plot on, but does Neeshka actually contribute anything significant other than bandit side-quests?) and it'd take a couple of simple conditionals to account for them being dead and cut out their dialogue and quests.

Hopefully you'll get far enough in to murder Elanee!

hail to the conquering LPlayer advanced beyond 3rd update!

words of wisdom

to be fair, for first time players, they might think of the stalker as a boss of some sort.

crude peasant clothes? WTF? No way we would think that's a boss.

Chainmail bikini, now that's a surefire guarantee.

Yup, Avellone wrote all the NWN2 OC party members from what I recall of previews and interviews at the time of the game's release. This is even more baffling considering the atrocious retado-clones of Annah and Dak'kon found in the game (Neeshka and the chick whose name starts with a Z). I think the whole stereotypical companions bickering all the time was them trying to copy the BG2 formula (again they touted during previews that NWN2 would be more akin to BG2 than NWN, boasting about the innovative feature of YOU CAN HAS A PARTY THIS TIME NOT JUST A HENCHMAN), but the funny thing is even in BG2 the companions were optional and you could choose not to give a shit about Imoen and the game respected your choice and provided you with a different reason for following Irenicus. Also, this time it's not like in K2 where you couldn't throw Kreia out of the ship because you'd fuck up the plot, aside from Ammon Jerro and his granddaughter none of the other npc are vital to the plot, in fact they're only there to force you to go through filler combat area #1276 because 'Trust us guys, this area holds a vital clue that you need to advance the plot'.
What I'm trying to say is the NWN2 OC is rage inducing even when you just remind yourself of it.
Rage on, brother Stasgard.

The companions in NWN 2 OC are pretty much like the companions found in jRPGs : you can't tell them to fuck off. But at least, jRPGs don't use pointless dialogue options to give the false impression that you have any say in the matter.

I think the NWN 2 companion I disliked most was Shandra. She's not quite as cliché as some of the others, but the fact that she suddenly became a mega-important obligatory companion really annoyed me. Also, she completely let me down during the trial simply because I hadn't sucked up to her previously.

Christ, that is frightening. I started to make excuses in my mind, but fuck it, if this is Avellone he done fucked up hard. I mean, KoTOR2 was annoying with them being forced upon you, but as you said it would fuck up the plot, and more-so they gave a valid reason they clung to you with the force bonding. Avellone, you have dissapointed me, I might have to take down that shrine to you.