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Inactive Let's Play Europa Universalis III: Jerusalem Sancta

WHICH IS BETTER AND WHY?

  • Tripoli (MMU)

    Votes: 5 11.1%
  • Jerusalem (fun2EU)

    Votes: 13 28.9%
  • Ikko-Ikki (fun2EU)

    Votes: 4 8.9%
  • Norway (MMU)

    Votes: 5 11.1%
  • Pskov (MMU)

    Votes: 3 6.7%
  • Copt Egypt (fun2EU)

    Votes: 9 20.0%
  • Navarra (fun2EU)

    Votes: 3 6.7%
  • Riga (MMU)

    Votes: 3 6.7%

  • Total voters
    45

Cassidy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
7,922
Location
Vault City
Alright, Jerusalem it will be.

Update incoming. From Saladin to Mamluks, this won't be easy.
 

Gondolin

Arcane
Joined
Oct 6, 2007
Messages
5,827
Location
Purveyor of fine art
I certainly didn't expect Jerusalem to win. But it will be glorious. Or horrible. Or both.

Remove kebab, horse salami and circumcised dicks from holy premises!
 
Self-Ejected

Ulminati

Kamelåså!
Patron
Joined
Jun 18, 2010
Messages
20,317
Location
DiNMRK
We'll send some people around to revoke your Viking Credentials and deport you to turkey next week Azira.
 

Cassidy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
7,922
Location
Vault City
For those disappointed about no jokes on Breivik and Templars, don't worry, only one of the two subjects is not fit for jokes in this LP, but I'll try to be very subtle if I can with them.

=============

templar_knight_crusaders_in_battle_33.jpg


Damascus sub Jerusalem. Deus vult!

Salve Regina

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taking-of-jerusalem-by-the-crusaders-15th-july-1099-1847-giclee-print-c11722193.jpeg



The Kingdom of Jerusalem, birthplace of Jesus Christ, has been ripe with strife and conflict since He died on the cross, and for much of its history after the birth of Christ, it has been subjugated by greater empires. First, even before Jesus, as a Roman province, and then, after the collapse of the Roman Empire, as a province of the Eastern Roman Empire, which wouldn't last long as the decline of the Eastern Roman Empire and the growth of Islam led to the complete loss of the Levant to the Caliphate. For almost four hundred years crusades have been fought, won and lost over Jerusalem, and more than one Catholic kingdom of Jerusalem has risen, fallen again and then again restablished by new crusades. From Saladin to the Mamluks, the arabs have learned to fight back, and now, in the coming of the 15th century, while Europe is ravaged by the Black Death, remembering the example of their fellow Muslims in Granada now on the eve of completely conquering Iberia, Syrians and Mamluks are preparing to crush this most recent incarnation of Jerusalem, which the Eastern Roman Empire also have their ambitious eyes over.

The only allies of the Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem in the year of the lord 1399 are the Order of Knights Hospitaller of Gaza and the Copt Crusader Kingdom of Egypt, which, in the name of ensuring their mutual survival, have left aside their religious differences with the Catholic Jerusalem, for the struggle against the heathen is more important than which is better and why between miaphysitism and Patriarch and diophysitism and Pope, despite the minor disapproval of the Pope for the alliance, minor for the Church understood the greater good of preserving the sanctity of the Holy Land behind it, the same greater good that drove the Catholic Church to focus all the knightly orders over Jerusalem rather than Eastern Europe, for a price now easily understood by the rise of the mighty heathen Kingdom of Finland, where most worship either Perkele or Odin, and is largely inhabited by Finns and by Vikings who sought refuge from the forced conversions in Scandinavia. This Kingdom of Finland has, in the aftermath of the Mongol invasions, nearly crushed all the Rus principalities. But the Finns and Vikings of Finland have little interest in doing more than securing their freedom to worship their gods, and their King embraces a concept of humanist tolerance, by which those who worship Christ are tolerated, although not allowed to construct churches or promote their faith through missionaries. The muslims are indeed a much greater threat despite the disappointment of the Catholic Slavs who saw this as abandonment, a disappointment that partly explains why most Polish duchies and the whole Lithuania are Orthodox rather than Catholic.

The kingdom of Jerusalem of 1399 was established primarily thanks to the effortts of Germanic crusaders of the Holy Roman Empire, led by the Burgrave of Nuremburg: Adalbert Von Hohenzollern, who saw it as an opportunity to become someone with a greater title to honor his dynasty than a mere Burgraviate. Adalbert was a man of war rather than politics and diplomacy, and he used the best of his skills during what some hopeful and faithful men called The Last Crusade for Jerusalem. He attacked the arabs at the right time, as the Mamluks were still in chaos due to the recent independence of Syria, while Syria was worn by their independence war, and he seized the short window of opportunity masterfully, reclaiming the Levant for Christianity. Then a major missionary effort began, and the new monastic orders had a major role in its success as much as the Sufis had a major role in spreading their heathen belief.

Yet since its foundation, Jerusalem's sovereingty is a thin thread hanging on a scimitar. The threat of the Mongol hordes kept the Syrians too busy for a time, while the Mamluks were focusing on East Africa but this is no longer the case. Jerusalem had only one advantage, the Syrians were not expecting them to be bold enough to start a war. Culturally, Jerusalem is an unique offshoot of many religious orders, and despite Germanic influences, Latin is the official language and the primary language spoken among the crusader knights and feudal rulers of the kingdom.

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Adalbert II, who turned out to be as much of a man of war as his father, proclaimed Damascus as holy land, and that it is God's will for Damascus to once again return under the kingdom of Jerusalem. The precedents were set months ago, and while larger levies weren't raised yet to keep the Syrians oblivious to the intent of Jerusalem, all was set. The Crusaders were the heart and soul of the kingdom, and all their coming wars would definitively be decided on land rather than on the Mediterranean. The decision has upset the tiny shipwright sector but there was no better decision.

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Despite decades of missionary work, while the majority is firmly Catholic the infidels are many yet, and a few Copts who have survived the depredations of Islam in Aleppo are now persecuted in the hopes eventually they will convert. Yet at this moment, Jerusalem cannot afford missionaries: they need crusaders and warriors rather than preachers. The Mamluks could start a war at any time, but they would not give Syria the luxury of starting the inevitable, while to secure their future, an alliance was offered to the Copt Kingdom of Armenia.

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DEUS VULT!

(Note: I should have used the Holy War CB but I thought this mod featured province defections after enough occupation. oh well)

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The Armenians refused the alliance, but now there is no time for further negotiations. Syria is actually more powerful than Jerusalem, they simply had most of their forces standing down when the war started. This is a war that will be decided through decisive battles and rapid conquest, and the all the Crusaders knew what was at stake here. Time was not in their favor and the Mamluks still were a wild card.

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Fortunately, the Mamluks decided to focus their ambitions west, for now. Adalbert II was not the right commander for his time. He was a great leader of archers but a not so good leader for the most important part of battles: the melee.

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Oman sidse with Syria. They are distant and neither Jerusalem nor them can reach each other. The critical battle of Damascus is about to begin

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It was a costly battle where many good men died, but the Heathen armies are driven into retreat from Damascus, as the crusaders besiege the ancient city, oblivious to the reinforcements Syria was gathering until it was too late.

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Armenia, seeing the opportunity, also proclaimed their own Crusade against Syria, which will hopefully keep the bulk of the Syrian armies busy. The battle of Damascus carried on and on, the soldiers of Jerusalem eventually became exhausted.

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And exhausted, they were routed by Syrian light horsemen, putting a disastrous end to the battle. Yet, many more crusaders were rising to join the struggle. The heathens may have won the battle but they will not win the war! In their fanaticism, as they became aware of a much larger Syrian force heading for Damascus, they rushed to the city to secure it before it was too late.

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It was a bloodbath, which was no surprise for such has been the nature of the Crusades since the beginning. But it was a bloodbath favoring the infidel, as another isolated enemy revealed itself. No matter how much they have done, the battles of Damascus were leaning towards disaster, like many other battles the Crusaders fought before in other regions, the same which doomed Guy de Lusignan long before this new Jerusalem.

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Such is life in the Holy Land.

(couldn't resist :parrotgif)

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Luckily for the retreating forces of Jerusalem, the Armenians drew the ire of the numerically superior heathens away long enough. Jerusalem needed a larger army soon, and most importantly, realizing humbly the superiority of the infidel both in numbers and capabilities, they needed the blessing of the Lord, specially as, the longer the war lasted, the greedier the eyes of the Mamluks became.

Eventually, while Jerusalem hoped that, to prevent opportunism against their weaker subordinate knightly order, they could fight this war on their own, they now had no choice but to call for the aid of the Knights Hospitaller. who of course complied with their duty.

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It was perhaps divine intervention that drove the Syrians to not seek to crush the entire army of Jerusalem but instead try to overcome them in siege warfare, something Jerusalem has learned long, painful and devastating lessons about. This was good for now the war was playing to their strength. In a fanatical fervor, the King proclaimed:

"As our victory is willed by God, our garrisons, like the people of Israel during one of their darkest hours, will be fed directly from the heavens through the manna from God's hands while the heathens besiege our holy walls!"

40oZ1.jpg


Although the manna never came(unless you believe in the ravings of starving men during the longest and most devastating sieges against Jerusalem), there was another form of manna that ensured the greater advantage of Jerusalem: the far greater determination of their Garrisons, the superiority of their siege warfare compared to the arab sieges and equally importantly: much more efficiently stored, rationed and managed food and water reserves.

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Thus, Sidon still resisted despite many tribulations and suffering, while their capital in Damascus has fallen. One step closer to the ultimate objective of this war.

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Armenia decided to not try greater ambitions, but for Jerusalem, such was not an option. Expansion was of essence for the crusader kingdom because if they didn't do this, the infidels would do the same against them.

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The king still remembers the pain of that deep cut that an infidel did on his balls, almost making them fall off, but his balls were made of iron, and eventually the wound was recovered. However, this made him infertile, and thus he anxiously awaited and prayed for a pregnancy without complications. His prayers were answered, but he was not entirely glad about it. Fortunately the succession law was prepared for this, as in case of no male heirs, a female heir would inherit the throne.

However, can a woman really lead something as manly as a Crusader Kingdom surrounded by hostile heathens? There was no other option left now: Sibylla von Hohenzollern would eventually become the Queen of Jerusalem.

:decline:

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The Knights were being very successful in their sieges as well. Syria may be confident about being able to win this war, but they will soon lose, and preparations are being made to ensure not only their land will be taken, but that their army will be crushed beneath the sands. Once Dayr Az Zor falls the glorious army of Jerusalem will no longer avoid the massive Syrian army, although the breaking of their siege will be expensive to the Kingdom's treasury.

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All fortress of the infidels have fallen or are about to fall. It is time now to ensure the same will happen to their legions.

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Mercenaries are expensive, but this holy war has been costly for Jerusalem, particularly because of the disastrous initial battles at Damascus. To both wipe the taint of those early defeats and ensure their total victory, a massive force will be rallyed near Damascus to break the siege against the now faithful Garrison that miraculously still resisted.

fXDaO.jpg


To allow the possibility of total victory, a deal with Armenia is sought. Considering the threat of the muslims, Armenia promptly agrees to provide passage for the crusaders to march on the Syrian exclave on the shores of the Caspian Sea. Meanwhile the mercenaries and a soon to be raised levy of more one thousand soldiers will soon march to Damascus.

However, there was just this much time a fortress could resist, and Damascus has fallen while the forces to relieve them gathered their strength, and confident by both their victory and "liberation" of Damascus, and by the previous devastating victories they delivered in battle against Jerusalem, the heathens ignored the slight numerical superiority of the assembled army and charged towards Aleppo.

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Their attack was at first devastating, as the Crusaders and mercenaries took heavy casualties defending Aleppo, but Adalbert would not give up this easily. To achieve victory in this battle was more than a matter of survival for Jerusalem: it was a matter of honor. The knights of Jerusalem bravely charged in a counter-attack after the first territorial gains of the infidels.

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Their charge devastated the enemy horsemen and was considered by many the turning point of the battle, for even with the heavy losses of footsoldiers, this charge and its impact over the Syrian lines drove the attackers back and began to give signs a glorious victory was possible after all.

Meanwhile, along the infidel-ridden parts of Jerusalem, a missionary conducting his efforts without direct funding of either kingdom or Church, but relying solely on donations, has become a beacon of salvation that brought much prestige to the kingdom for his efforts. This was the last event before both good and bad news would strike the kingdom.

The good news is that indeed, the battle of Aleppo was won, and the superior maneuver skills of the King would allow his army to outmaneuver the retreating infidel and eventually rout their entire army. As for the bad news:

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415px-Konrad_von_Gr%C3%BCnenberg_-_Beschreibung_der_Reise_von_Konstanz_nach_Jerusalem_-_Blatt_47r_-_099.jpg


Jerusalem must prevail no matter what! The Mamluks will not succeed no matter how vast their legions!

DEUS VULT!!!
 

Cassidy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
7,922
Location
Vault City
445px-Hattin.jpg


Venimus, Vidimus, Deus vincit

Crucem sanctam subiit

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Encouraged by the Mamluks, the heathen traitors dare to rise against the holy. They shall all burn in the fires of Hell and the Mamluks will not conquer Jerusalem, for this is the will of God!

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The Syrian infidel army crumbles, and now, with their devastating defeat, there may be hope for Jerusalem despite the awareness of Adalbert II von Hohenzollern to the fact the Mamluks can raise a much larger army than theirs.

Most importantly, at this point finishing the conquest of Syria is critical, as the Knights Hospitaller of Gaza face their finest hour, their fortress under siege by the infidel. Damascus must fall quickly!

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The first assault against the heathen fortifications is unsuccessful, with the crusaders demoralized by the burning of many siege towers and failure to control the gates, but their defenders are now only a few hundreds, they won't resist much longer.

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DEUS VULT!

Considering the Mamluk involvement against Jerusalem, the king considered the possibility of calling the Copt Crusader Kingdom of Egypt to arms, but Egypt was having other problems:

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The resurgent Eastern Roman Empire sought the ambition of reconquering Alexandria, although the Egyptians were fighting fiercely and with great valor to defend themselves. This is a worrissome development for Jerusalem as well, because many centuries ago, Jerusalem was part of their empire, and if they are bold enough to try taking back Alexandria, it is only a matter of time before they try the same against the Holy Land.

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The heathen occupation of Sidon is broken through a relentless assault. There is no time to merely wait for sieges now, no matter how many men will die for this most just and holy cause, and somehow, the other distant Syrian allies got in. They must be crushed and Gaza must not fall.

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Many believed it was divine intervention, but somehow, a new threat of pretenders provoked by a succession crisis drove most of the massive Mamluk legion besieging Gaza away, and Jerusalem would not take any chances about it. Truly a miracle that it happened. However, it was far from over.

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The Mamluk legion was battered but victorious against the pretenders to their unholy throne while a thousand of heathens were crushed by the crusader army. Taking advantage of their weariness, but still aware this could end as a devastating defeat for Jerusalem as much as the battle of Hattin was for the previous Jerusalem, the king nevertheless advanced with his armies to put an end on the threat and secure his victory against Syria.

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The heathens retreated in the hopes of exhausting the crusaders, and then, God's hand truly happened, for despite their clear chances of crushing Jerusalem, the infidels offered a white peace, and wanting to take no risks, the treaty was accepted. Soon Syria would be isolated, their other allies crushed and then Jerusalem would, for a change, triumph!

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The losers dare to make demands. Their messenger is force-fed pig meat and then sent back. The army marches to rout the remnants of the infidel forces.

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Victory now is only a matter of time.

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The other infidels are abandoning Syria to their fate as well.

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Meanwhile, the news of the decisive victories and miracles against the infidels in the Holy Land are bittersweet for the Christian world. The heathens crushed Castille and proclaimed the Caliphate of Iberia, and now they are making their preparations to finish with Navarra and drive Guyenne out, and their forces could become nigh-unstoppable were them to defeat and conquer both.

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God has blessed Jerusalem, first with the unlikely offer of white peace by the other infidels, then with victory after victory.

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And now Syria was on their own. The king was resolute into fully subjugating them, to ensure that strip of their land east of Armenia wouldn't bring more trouble if it is not possible to fully annex them right on.

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Aristocrats not only from Jerusalem, but from all accross Europe, give a large amount of gold to the kingdom to support their struggle against the heathens.

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As for Egypt, the Byzantines continue to fail in their ambition of conquering their land, and their armies continue to emerge victorious against their invasions.

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Shiites and Sunnis. They are all infidels, there is no difference.

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Now to crush the zealots and finish the conquest at last.

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Yet, There were other problems. This war has exhausted the kingdom, it had to be finished soon but at the same time the rebels couldn't be allowed to gain ground.

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All rebels crushed, to ensure rapid victory, there was no wait. Assault after assault must break through the last infidel fortress.

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And thus it was done. However, despite their total conquest, Jerusalem found itself unable to seize Damascus or fully annex the heathen lands. They would then do the best thing possible left.

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To seize the rich lands of Iraq and ensure no need of relying on shifty Armenians for the next time. This would bring Jerusalem infamy, and ultimately they should have declared this a holy war rather than a war of conquest, but now it was done, and despite the details, the holy Kingdom have prevailed.

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The now weak Lusignan dynasty enters a royal marriage with Jerusalem. Reduce to Cyprus, these are the descendants of the previous Kingdom of Jerusalem.

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No heresy will taint the glory of Jerusalem and their victory against the heathen! Syria will eventually be conquered and Damascus will yet be in God's hands.

DEUS VULT!
 

Azira

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Nov 3, 2004
Messages
8,519
Location
Copenhagen, Denmark
Codex 2012
We'll send some people around to revoke your Viking Credentials and deport you to turkey next week Azira.

If you'd seen/participated in my bachelor party, you might not be so hasty. It was a glorious affair! I dislocated the left shoulder in Holmgang, had it relocated, and was ready to go another bout the next minute. My companions withheld me though, they thought me foolhardy.
I also bruised a couple of ribs, and went unconscious, dead-drunk before five o'clock, only to awake two hours later, ready to party on. :yeah:

Truly glorious. And of course, the theme was vikings. A good bachelor party starts at the break of dawn, and should continue into the next day. The only mistake my companions made was to make me carry the great big bag of beer. I sensibly reasoned, that carrying the beer would be easier if it entered my body, so I started drinking at about 8 in the morning, and I think I'd had 10 beers before the clock had turned 10.
That did not stop me from drinking the Bersærker brew before holmgang, but I did pass out before the mead in a horn at Café Valhal, something I regret dearly. Had I known that was in the itinerary, I might have restrained my drinking... M:

In short, vikings rule, but I also love to see a good heathen ass-kicking in the middle-east. I would dearly love Kayerts to continue the Viking LP though. :bro:
 

newcomer

Learned
Joined
May 23, 2012
Messages
919
Hmm.. so it's kind of an alternate history? KoJ wouldn't be there in 1399, and I don't remember Copt Egypts ever managed to break from Mamluks. Not to mention the size of Byzantine, it should've been swallowed by kebab by now. Btw, where is kebab?

And if it is, mind LARPing a bit on how this alternate history happened? Such as the Byzantine actually managed to push back seljuk kebab, etc.

If Egypt is not getting raped by Byzantine, maybe you can coordinate an attack to the mamluks, split their land into 2 separate pieces by taking sinai or other province, then it will be much easier to fight them later IMO

Oh one more thing, is it possible to change religion in this game?
 

Vaarna_Aarne

Notorious Internet Vandal
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
34,585
Location
Cell S-004
MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
Giefs mod now. Did they at least completely rework the name file? Since in this alternate scenario, Swedish names are completely out of the question.

Finns defeating Russians? What is this, someone sent a time-machine to Vaarna Aarne?
Actually without Swedish assistance (actually it was the other way around though, Russians didn't start muscling in until after the Swedes) the conquest may never have happened due to there being no pressure on two sides slowly eating up the tribes. The Finns were not exactly pushovers, it took two hundred years to finish the job, and Karelians (or Oesalians, sources are typically conflicting as per Middle Ages standards, it gets worse when you get the Russians claiming sponsoring the attack as well) sacking Sigtuna, at the time Sweden's largest and oldest town. Without the Teutonic Order's part, it'll also mean that the Estonians and Livonians are untouched, and if an actual nation were formed it would probably involve them too. Another factor against the Russians was that without Swedish crusades a minority of Finns had already converted to Catholicism, which in turn had led the Pope Honorius III to issue a call for Christendom to cease all trade with Novgorod (barbarians in his words) until they stop harassing Finns (popes actually did the embargo thing against Russians about this several times). The Swedish crusades also most likely had very little to do with converting heathens and everything to do with imperialism. The Swedish-Novgorodian Wars were largely a direct follow-up to the original Finnish-Novgoridian Wars, and the conquest was directly enabled by them. Of course, a question here is whether or not the bishop of Finland would have been able to capitalize on the situation against the old pagans in the situation where the wars went better for the Finns.

And really, with Humanist Tolerance? If it was me time-traveling it'd obviously go full RUS GENOCIDE BEST DAY OF MY LIFE very fast.
 

Cassidy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
7,922
Location
Vault City
Giefs mod now. Did they at least completely rework the name file? Since in this alternate scenario, Swedish names are completely out of the question.

https://sites.google.com/site/fun2paradox/fun2eu

You can rename provinces anyway. I don't recommend playing as Finland in the alternate history scenario because it is, despite diplomatic isolation and the Mongol Hordes, too easy IMO.

And... Don't ask me why but their religion is shown as "Tengri" and Novgorod can be renamed to Odinholm and transformed into their capital.

:troll:

PS: The same author did an alternate history mod for Hearts of Iron 3... now that is surprising

https://sites.google.com/site/fun2paradox/fun2hoi3
 

Vaarna_Aarne

Notorious Internet Vandal
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
34,585
Location
Cell S-004
MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
And... Don't ask me why but their religion is shown as "Tengri" and Novgorod can be renamed to Odinholm and transformed into their capital.
Actually there's a whole can of worms to be opened if you were to decide the Finnish pagan state religion from a list that doesn't have their own. Ultimately, seeing how the list of choices is, Tengriist is probably the good choice for generic Euro-pagans. However, if the chief pagan country is Finland, they really should use Finnish gods and heroes for the name process (they also haven't switched the name table I see, but that is easily fixed), or they should use generic pagan gods.

Likelyhood is that if the Finnish nation was dominated by the Karelian tribe (in this kind of history, the choice woul really be between them or Oesalians), it is quite possible that Novgorod would be renamed something else and resettled, though that's an iffy subject anyway since the record and knowledge of pre-conquest Finland's settlements is scarce at best due to Swedes keeping no records and extensive settlement changes in the period following conquest and after that as well (as hill-forts would evolve into towns instead of some of the towns that we have now, for example Porvoo/Borgå wouldn't be and instead there would likely be Raasepori). Assuming the ancient town excavated near Hämeenlinna/Tavasthus wasn't known as Vanaja, it's likely that the renamed Novgorod would be Vanaja. Though I think if they added a decision chain like this, it's probably to serve as an alternate history parallel to what Swedes did in Finland. Still, Odinholm as a name makes absolutely no sense.
 

marooned

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
Messages
313
We need another update before the vikings inane-jack the glorious thread.
 

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