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In Progress Let's play Disciples of Steel

Whisper

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
4,357
When you have Perception around 380-390 you get information about most of secret doors. Basicly i stopped "checking" for doors manualy and finished last (biggest) dungeon. So getting high Perception is only way to avoid this "feature".
 

kofeur

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
134
kofeur, it may also interest you to know that in three major play-throughs (albeit only one to completion) I've never used a monk. I had no idea that they could enable a party to overcome higher level enemies than an equivalent level party without one. I've always avoided monks because I like tinkering with armor and weapons, but wow, being able to stun is clearly a big plus.

I can definitely understand not using the monk because you want to tinker with armor. It is a weird class to have in a fantasy RPG as it's a class that absolutely needs no loot at least in terms of equipment (you could have special technique scrolls as loot if the system allowed for it) . That being said I think that this game has one of the best mechanics dealing with unarmed combat. It's not just an alternative to weapons as it does too little damage, but it's not useless either because it has such a high stun ability. So it really gave it a unique playing style that almost no other RPG has done. I can only think of an obscure game called Requital which had an interesting mechanic for unarmed as it damaged stamina instead of health. And when stamina was at 0, the enemy would be knocked down, but that is for another thread I guess, when I finish this LP :)

Anyway back to the monk, he's the boss killer of the game because of his stun ability. And I really needed that ability to defeat the Fire Giant of the Hollenguard quest early on in this LP. I was doing this mission way too early, but I wanted to do it to see if I would have problems with the Ogre mission that comes later. At the time when I played the game in the 90s, I had never managed to get past the Ogre quest, because the ruler would never recognise the ogre remains for some reasons (I didn't have the patch back then), so I needed to check early on if I would have a problem with that.

Of course with enough grinding, any character can kill the giant, but I didn't have the patience for that, and my best bet was the monk, why?

- Stun ability: When you are good enough to hit the enemy consistently, you will always stun him and keep him stunned. So as long as I could stun the giant, I was sure to kill him without allowing him to land a single attack. If I had done that with a warrior, I would need to be at a much higher level, because the giant would kill my warrior directly after eating all his attacks (the warrior needs much more training and much better equipment to be able to handle a fire giant on his own). Also keep in mind that a stunned enemy is easier to hit, so I can keep him in a stun with the monk and finish him with the high damage warrior or knight.

-Fastest learner: the monk gets the most experience out of any encounter if you use him normally. Now that has to do with the experience system of the game. It rewards for every hit you land I think, so if you one shot an enemy you get less experience than if you use 3 - 4 attacks to kill him. The monk dealing less damage needs a lot of hits to kill an enemy because of his lower damage output so he gets much more experience. I noticed that when I had to quickly level up my party to deal with that Fire Giant. I took my monk and warriors on their own to train them. On a similar encounter the monk would get about 3 times more experience than the warriors or the ranger. Couple that with the fact that unarmed is the cheapest skill to level up, and you get your best striker in early - mid game.

In end game, he becomes less useful as the warriors get equipment that increase their to-hit tremendously, especially the sly sword from the death knight. With 400 in edged, your to hit is more than 700, much more than a monk can ever hope to achieve. The ranger on the other hand doesn't have a high to-hit with bows, I guess it has to do with the fact that he can safely get one aimed shot per round anyway. It's very well balanced in this regards.

Bottom line: if you don't know how to use the monk, then he is useless indeed. If you do, he adds a lot of options to your party and allows you to tackle enemies that would be too strong otherwise.
 

kofeur

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
134
Curious, so this power-levelling, are you doing it within the continuous game-time, or effectively doing it on a different time-line by levelling the character and then adding that leveled character to a party you start the game with such that the game is started with that highly leveled character? Since from the start the clock is ticking towards the deadline, I've always had in mind efficiency albeit without compromising much if at all on enjoying play.

Well I was off to a slow start, but the biggest time waster is overland travel. Now that I use transport for all my movement needs, and considering I never ever camped in this game (Your characters recover quickly while walking around), I have more than enough time.

Incidentally regarding dungeon secret doors, since there are so many and since there is no reliable way for your characters to detect them for you, I've always had the practice of pushing against each and every single wall that did not border against an area I'd already explored i.e. step one, push against walls, step two, push against walls, step three etc. This is one of the dimensions of the game I'm not crazy about.

I agree, that's what I do. I didn't do it in the first few dungeons and have missed a few secret doors. But have been doing it all the time since then.


When you have Perception around 380-390 you get information about most of secret doors. Basicly i stopped "checking" for doors manualy and finished last (biggest) dungeon. So getting high Perception is only way to avoid this "feature".

I have perception 410 at the moment, and my thief still missed a few secret doors
 

kofeur

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
134
Errands

Ok let's go to Aragaul, Elf kingdom

LSxlH.jpg


Doesn't look much like an elf...

Anyway what's the first mission

waiMI.jpg


0ADOY.jpg


Herb hunting, let's go!

Here it is

DxEsE.jpg


MN5ti.jpg


Let's go back

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Next mission?

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More herb hunting, luckily I had one in the guild vault

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Next mission?

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BdvD0.jpg


This guy doesn't seem to be the merciful type

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Let's go meet the Lord of Kitari

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First thing he tells me

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I guess it's that dungeon I did where I found my first backstabbing dagger...

Next mission?

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Herb hunting again! It's the same plant that the pirate asked me for, anyway...

ww9Cd.jpg


Back to the Lord of the desert

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Even more herb hunting

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Looking for the herb we find a cave...

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I'm sure it has something to do with a future quest, I will leave it for later...

Another interesting discovery

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That definitely has to do with the Elven quest line

Found the herb again

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He's happy with it

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Next mission?

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I have this one in my vault

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Finally the mission I was looking for

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Here you go

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Iq8jB.jpg


Back to our Elvish lord

cklbA.jpg


Next mission?

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Wow this guy is really after trying to erase famine from the world!

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Never thought, a party of 8 characters could carry enough food for a kingdom!

Let's go meet the lord of Constantium

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Impressive!

No word about the famine plaguing his kingdom...

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Let's go get his tribute...

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That is the Mithril I got them from the dwarves!

He's happy

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Let's bring it back

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Ok, are they hungry now?

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zegSx.jpg


Nope but we get to go Jabberling hunting!
 

kofeur

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
134
The wizard who played with fire

So let's go do that mission for Constantium, the one that involves killing Jabberlings!

This is the cave we found earlier while looking for herbs

rfx3P.jpg


JacE0.jpg


eEfJi.jpg


Indeed it's the right place

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First encounter

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It's already that time of the year?

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First door

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More Jabberling

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And going through the first door, we find...

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Nobody survived

Through the other door?

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Their families are quite numerous

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None of the neighbours survived

Area clear!

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In the next area, another family... I've got the feeling I'll be saying this often...

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... We are clearing a village after all

Exploring further we end up in a nice crossroad

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Going left we find...

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Yep, that's right, another family

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Let's go right

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What a surprise

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Secret door

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What's behind this door?

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Another secret door

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Behind a secret door

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Here's our elf

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I'll take his remains just in case

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That is the secret door

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In the room we find

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And following that corridor, we find another secret door

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And...

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You guessed it

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Charming!

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Let's head back

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Ok this leaves that big room to explore

That must be the last family

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It looks like there is a secret room here, but there isn't

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And in the last unexplored part of the dungeon

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Not a great weapon...

Let's head back to the lord

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Next mission?

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Let's go to Kitari, luckily I am at the right mission

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Back to Constantium

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Next mission?

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We'll have to finish off that wizard, but first let's quickly head back to Kitari

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Next mission?

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vQWke.jpg


Cool we'll have to kill a reagent! But that will have to wait for now

Let's find the wizard's tower

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Yep, we're at the right place

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Indeed

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Classic crossroad

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Going to the left

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These are a random encounter

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So the tower is indeed full of demons...

This place is also full of traps

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And the undead

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Secret door

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And another secret door

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And we get to this room

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The vampire doesn't feel superior anymore

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For a good reason I guess

Behind another secret door, we find stairs leading up

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Going up we find a door

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hmm...

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Before trying to pick the lock, let's see if we can find a key

Going down, we find other stairs leading up

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And here, we don't find a locked door but...

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He didn't last long

And as soon as we finished him off, we meet some new monsters as a random encounter

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They're just confident

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And behind them or more accurately behind the vampire which was the set encounter, we find...

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Yep, it was a key

This is where I found it

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Ok, back to the other door

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And just behind that door

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looks like a satyr

But here it's called a pan

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Looks overconfident... but that didn't help

Further in we find

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That was just the text, there was no fight here

But we do find another pan shortly after

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Missed a few pictures here, behind a secret door just further in, we find the wizard who we were looking for

vhUtX.jpg


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Looks like that other creature who asked us the password in the Ruined temple, should be an easy fight then

hmmm... his combat sprite looks completely different... He is indeed much tougher than the other demon


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Let's take his remains

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He wasn't well equipped, I guess these are the possessions of the mage before he turned into a demon

And in this room, we find

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Nice!!

Back to the palace

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Next mission?

caya4.jpg


mNDjk.jpg


Ah! Ah! That is the mission we were looking for

We were carrying the food all this time...

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And the receipt

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Next mission?

cwcic.jpg


cwcic.jpg


But, before that we go hand the receipt to the elvish lord

TuKfS.jpg


And his nest mission?

WpoXr.jpg


So next time we will be looking for an elvish artifact!
 

kofeur

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
134
Dragon

We found the Elven burial tomb earlier

hORTu.jpg


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It is the right place

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This place hasn't had visitors for some time...

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Seems we disturbed them

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Our first secret door

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Seems like the dead are restless

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Another secret door

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And we find

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Yep there was the staff we were looking for

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Looks nice but doesn't have any additional powers

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Let's see what was behind the door anyway...

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We didn't really need to kill the vampire boss to get the staff after all... But we do not condone jobs half done :obviously:

Anyway, back to the palace

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Next mission?

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To deliver the staff naturally!

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Back to the elvish lord

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And the receipt! I really feel like a courier service...

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His next mission?

fwqtC.jpg


But first let's deliver the receipt

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Next mission?

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uMHZk.jpg


Dragon-slaying! I guess I'll do that before looking for the missing elven girl :smug:

And indeed just north of the city

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If we had any doubts about being in the right place...

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Failed dragon slayers

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There are some other creatures too

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This place is fitting for an old dragon

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And we finally find the dragon
\
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The dragon had some heavy debts it seems...

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But let's check out his items

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Nice!!!

Back to the palace

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Next mission?

QJaVj.jpg


9C4Ah.jpg


So we don't get his kingdom, he will just fight by our side
 

Lykurgos

Novice
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
15
Cool, update.

Say, Whisper and kofeur, do either of you have this running on a 64-bit OS? I'm attempting that now. I cannot setup directly because the 16 bit executables won't function. So far, I've got the 1.004 game running via D-Fend Reloaded, but haven't figured out a way to get the patch installed on top of that.
 

Lykurgos

Novice
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
15
Ignore me, I got it working! With sounds and music and mouse support. Wow

FYI, I suggested this game to folks over at Quarter 2 Three in a Hellherron thread. Two people have since started, or may have started if they've managed to install and get it running too.
 

kofeur

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
134
Ignore me, I got it working! With sounds and music and mouse support. Wow

FYI, I suggested this game to folks over at Quarter 2 Three in a Hellherron thread. Two people have since started, or may have started if they've managed to install and get it running too.

Glad to see you got it working! And thanks for getting more people to play it :)
What is your party composition?

ez8je.jpg


Is the dragon lighting a cigarette or what? :)

Seems like it :D
 

Lykurgos

Novice
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
15
My party is currently composed of no more than intentions. After the heady success of getting the game installed and working again, I need a break.

I do look forward to the character creation though. I recall I've a habit of rer-olling numerous times to obtain actual attribute scores close to potential attribute scores on critical attributes, especially for magic users. I'll happily drink a coffee, listen to some music, and re-roll several hundred times (including some times where I rerolled despite getting what I wanted, due to lack of attention).
 

kofeur

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
134
My party is currently composed of no more than intentions. After the heady success of getting the game installed and working again, I need a break.

I do look forward to the character creation though. I recall I've a habit of rer-olling numerous times to obtain actual attribute scores close to potential attribute scores on critical attributes, especially for magic users. I'll happily drink a coffee, listen to some music, and re-roll several hundred times (including some times where I rerolled despite getting what I wanted, due to lack of attention).

Yeah I know the feeling :)
Keep in mind that the only character who needs varied attributes is the Rogue as he has quite a few useful skills that are determined by different attributes
 
Joined
Apr 20, 2012
Messages
1
Wow this is better than our hint book ever was! FYI the MS-Dos version did have a manual at first, it was only the 2nd printing that didn't. Anyway it's *awesome to see people enjoying Disciples of Steel. Just thought I'd chime in. Thanks again for playing.
 

Sceptic

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
10,871
Divinity: Original Sin
The Man himself makes an appearance!

Belated thank you for making such an unusual and interesting game. Needless to say it stood the test of time enough for people to still enjoy more than two decades later. You and your team did a great job :salute:
 

kofeur

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
134
Hi Kevin,

Thanks for posting here, as Sceptic said your game still generating interest two decades after it's released. It did so many things right or in a fresh new way in a genre that was so popular back then. So congratulations on releasing such a great game! :salute:
 

kofeur

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
134
Demon

Time to look for the lost elven girl

nm2vn.jpg


These must be the caves he was talking about...

4qXiM.jpg


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Seems like the right place, let's explore

Our first encounter

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Hmm...

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This place is full of rats...

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... and traps

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We also find some bats

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This seems like quite a charming place for a little girl to play in...

Finally something else!

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A secret door

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Another one

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Yet another one

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Did I say one more?

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So we found the kidnappers

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And in a secret door in their room...

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... we find...

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It was a key

And looking further in this mess of secret doors and corridors, we find...

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And here is the girl

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More secret doors

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And a locked door for a change

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And we find

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Nice!!

Is the father happy?

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His next mission?

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Demon hunting!

Going to the east as we were told, we find him as a random encounter

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He wasn't challenging

Back to the elvish lord

Xqzkw.jpg


His next mission?

yTfHR.jpg


Bjfrh.jpg


So they will stand by our side!
 

lightbane

Arcane
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
10,140
You cannot a honor greater than having one of the game's developers visiting your lp. Many :salute:, Kevin, for doing a game so awesome.

Z5f0Z.jpg

So, can you use the Parley option with the Rats? Because if you can this game would be probably the 1st one to have true "rat diplomacy" before Fallout invented it.
 

kofeur

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
134
You cannot a honor greater than having one of the game's developers visiting your lp. Many :salute:, Kevin, for doing a game so awesome.

Z5f0Z.jpg

So, can you use the Parley option with the Rats? Because if you can this game would be probably the 1st one to have true "rat diplomacy" before Fallout invented it.

I think you can bribe them with food and they leave you alone. I'll give it a try :)
 

kofeur

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
134
Merchants and rebellions

Ok then, let's proceed with the Cartha missions

hMU6W.jpg


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hmm... I was already handed that before

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Yep the mission was already completed

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Next mission

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Let's go deliver that

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But before, we'll ask him for a mission

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It matches my mission, here you go

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He does act as he should I guess

Well let's go back to Cartha

TTWia.jpg


Next mission?

UHdtF.jpg


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Ok, let's go checkout that tower

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It is indeed the right place

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Seems like our merchant left in a hurry...

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This place is also full of traps

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That is a useful place, but this time there is nobody to interrupt

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First floor, nobody no encounter, let's go up

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And in a room we find...

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This merchant had some... exotic tastes

In this room we find...

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So that was what we were looking for!

Let's go back to the palace

fIsaj.jpg


Next mission?

WJ9Sk.jpg


TRMOk.jpg


So we're hunting for a merchant, let's go!

Going west, we find that cave

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It's just an orc outpost

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We might as well clean it since we're here

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And our first encounter

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Our second encounter

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Our third encounter...

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You guessed it, this place is full of orcs!

In a room not too far, we find...

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And going further in the outpost

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They came in force

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After having cast wrath of god

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Yep that was quick!

And in that room, we find

S8kTW.jpg


xeWWa.jpg


Nice!

We finish cleaning that dungeon and decide to go back to Cartha to see if it had any incidence

And indeed...

BGsEV.jpg


So it was a mission that was coming after taking care of the merchant, because if I ask for a quest, I get the same thing:

zk1fH.jpg


V9jJ1.jpg


Ok let's find him this time!

Just west of the city, we finally find the right spot

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oIUxN.jpg


And yes it is the hideout we were looking for

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Cool entrance

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So our merchant had indeed shady contacts

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It's not a big place and we quickly find the merchant

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Even though he's leaning on a cane, he still manages to feel superior...

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That didn't help him...

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And in his room we find

wFX2d.jpg


PdO26.jpg


Green dragon remains? Why the hell would he need that?!

That's what his hideout looks like

PMlaB.jpg


Back to Cartha

emX0g.jpg


Next mission?

wqmh8.jpg


X5V7x.jpg


So we're going to do something that will annoy the lady of Demata (my rogue's wife incidentally)

Back in Demata

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Yep, it's the right place

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A secret door

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And we find...

eNCKN.jpg


LbXFh.jpg


That;s what we were looking for, but let's explore the whole area

fKDo5.jpg


hvGDP.jpg


It is a huge library! and as all libraries, it was very quiet, we actually encountered nobody

Back in Cartha

aKXpk.jpg


Next mission?

dSAXQ.jpg


0jF3G.jpg


Too bad we didn't keep the remains of the merchant's pets...

Going to the desert, our rogue who is not skilled in tracking doesn't find anything

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But our ranger, a skilled tracker finds what we're looking for

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(look at the portrait to see who's performing the skill test)

And indeed

a0z2S.jpg


cIgAy.jpg


Back to Cartha

KtZ3Y.jpg


Next mission?

82gIo.jpg


Now that's an interesting mission! Let's go!

Yk6sX.jpg


We seek an audience with the reagent...

bO3fS.jpg


... Only to be kicked out

We take offense to such a treatment and decide to act accordingly

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This is what the palace looks like

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Breaking the door is easy...

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But it does go down eventually

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Should have thought that an ice storm can destroy everything...

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No mercy!

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And here is the reagent

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He got dealt with the appropriate force

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He wasn't that rich

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Let's take his body

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And we now rule the city

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On a side note: The guards are actually very dangerous, they can hurt me pretty badly. Makes sense, the reagent would keep his best guards to protect him.
On the other hand a level 4 wrath of the gods kills everybody. It's the most powerful spell in the game!

Back to Cartha

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Next mission?

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We already did that... must be a glitch.

Coming back with more scorpion remains

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Next mission?

So we get the city that we have just overthrown and that's it

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So here we are we finished the Cartha mission line!
 

kofeur

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
134
Deadlines

So we only have the desert peoples' missions to finish... and Rathadon. They are the enemy but we might still check out if they have any missions for us. After all we did go there on behalf of Cartha very recently.

So let's go meet him

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He has a mission for us

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So we go hunt for the famous Mymax!

I already found his tower earlier

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It is indeed the right place

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This place has seen some activity recently it seems

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It's a tower, so the layout is quite simple

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We encounter some undead

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We have a choice here

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This is full of traps

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Let's go down, I always find it fun to check out the basement, it tells a lot about the owner after all

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First thing we see is a door

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A man of taste...

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Let's take them

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The other room is not that attractive

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Yet in another room

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That will make for a good reading

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Not a very big basement after all...

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Let's go up!

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Different people different tastes I guess

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Let's check what's behind this room

hmm?

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This bug strikes again. I tried getting rid of some items in my inventory but this time, it didn't change anything.

Another window

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Let's go up to the next floor

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Indeed... the dead seems restless

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A secret door

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And another one next to it

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And here's what we find

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Let's put an end to his sufferings

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He didn't have any interesting possession on him

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But in a secret cache behind his bed...

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... We find the fabled staff of pestilence

Now that we have it, what should we do? Hand it over to the king of Rathadon? I don't think so :smug:

Let's go and finish that quest for the desert people, namely killing the reagent of a city part of the Rathadon's empire

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Yes the one at the edge of the desert

The reagent refuses to see us... how insulting!

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We'll make him pay

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He seems to have better guards than the other reagent I recently dealt with... I guess Rathadon is that much more powerful than Cartha

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He even had hell hounds, I wonder what he feeds them...

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Well he was no match for the disciples...

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Let's go back to the desert people

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Are they happy?

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Indeed... Do they have other missions?

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So are we done now?

Well... There's still some unfinished business with Rathadon, let's go deal with their king.

Going out of the city, we are reminded of our deadline... Let's hurry!

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At the city of Rathadon, it seems that we lost some popularity...

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Let's go talk to the king

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Hmm... This is not very diplomatic...

Let's answer in kind

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He's got much more guards than the reagent, it makes sense.

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Hmm.. He's not that rich. I guess feeding all those hell-hounds must be expensive

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He was a spear user, probably the weakest weapon group... It's the only melee accuracy based weapon.

It is now our city!

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So what do we do next?

I guess we'll try for the dungeon ending first, let's go kill that mad wizard!!
 

lightbane

Arcane
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
10,140
The final battle is close...Moar!!!
 

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