In Progress Let's go to the Moon and do the other things (Kerbal Space)

[Hellraiser]

Eve is supposed to get a visual update in 0.18, not sure what that will change in its look. From what I know it is not as much of an overhaul as both Kerbin and Moho will get. It will probably add more feature to the surface, for the moment it's mostly violet rock with liquid of mystery oceans and probably a few easter eggs hidden somewhere. I'll try to land a one Kerbal pod to recover the body of Comrade Bill, if the update doesn't get released before that. Although I have no idea how I'll get the lander back into orbit and to Kerbin, Eve looks like a pain to get out of due to all that atmosphere.

 

[potatojohn]

Huh, I didn't even know this thread existed.

 

[Hellraiser]

Yeah, I was surprised you didn't post here considering your contributions to the KSP topic in General Gaming.

 

[Cassidy]

I see now it is more than possible to design spaceplanes, but they are messy... so,

Is there a mod that adds this to KSP?

 

[Hellraiser]

I see now it is more than possible to design spaceplanes, but they are messy... so,

Is there a mod that adds this to KSP?

You want to roam the Kerbol system, Xenu Style?

Somebody made a dc-10 using stock parts:





Brave servant of lord Xenu (well almost).

However that thing cannot into space, looks too heavy to even try to get it a carrier rocket. The issue here is that with too many parts the game slows to a crawl, I get about 1 fps if I try to launch a rocket with more than 400 parts. Although I guess you could use the console or something to spawn it in orbit.

But in 0.18 you should be able to assemble one in orbit. Assuming you are crazy enough to do it. You would just have to lift large, asymmetrical parts into LKO, which probably will cause the rocket to tip over. Then rendezvous with the spinning like mad parts already in orbit, dock them at the right angle (although multiple docking ports should help align it better). Could have been crazier, one could try to assemble it in Jool's orbit and attempt to land with it on Jool's surface*.

*Jool is a Jupiter-analogue gas giant, funky things happen when one attempts to explore its gaseous green abyss.

 

[Cool name]

I am grateful for this Let's Play as it did allow me to discover this game and lose many hour trying to build pulp like rocketships only to have them blow in very amusing ways or shoot through space at great speeds while twirling wildly and with no fuel to return.

I do however have a few questions.

Is there an updated list of mods to be found? The mod forum does seem to be very chaotic.

Is there a way to have a ship start with the landing legs deployed?

Is there a way to turn on and off different sets of engines? For example to only turn off or on the main engines, the auxiliary engines, or the VTOL engines?

Is there a tutorial on basic rocket construction? My pretty and pulpy rocket ships do fly but they seem to have a very hard time doing so in a straight manner.

Thank you very much for your time.

 

[Hellraiser]

I do however have a few questions.

Is there an updated list of mods to be found? The mod forum does seem to be very chaotic.

http://www.kerbal.net/

You can browse them by category and whatnot there.

Is there a way to have a ship start with the landing legs deployed?

Want to test if legs are long enough? Just have a launch support structure (rocket holder girder) lift it a bit above ground and press G.

Is there a way to turn on and off different sets of engines? For example to only turn off or on the main engines, the auxiliary engines, or the VTOL engines?

At the moment the only way to do that is by manually clicking on the engine and clicking disable AFAIK. 0.18 is supposed to add custom group actions where you can bind such things en masse to custom keys, and you'll also be able to use that instead of the staging system if you prefer.

Is there a tutorial on basic rocket construction? My pretty and pulpy rocket ships do fly but they seem to have a very hard time doing so in a straight manner.

Use the advanced SAS module, turn it on by pressing T. It will try to automatically lock your vessel to the direction it is facing at the moment, using winglets and RCS to steer it if you have any (and the RCS thrusters are activated, personally i don;t use them.

Also build a as symmetrical as possible rocket, use the snap to angle feature and the built-in symmetry option in the builder.Just remember that the Vehicle Assembly Building and Spaceplane hangar use different types iof symmtery (which you can;t change IIRC) The hangar uses symmetry relative to an axis (as that's kind of how planes are built) where as the VAB uses symmetry relative to a point.

Oh and quite possibly the most important thing, if you have multiple vertical stages, they tend to wobble left and right after lift-off. This in turn causes the rocket to start spinning which causes more wobbling due to centrifugal-force. Outside of the obvious fact that you want the rocket to fly as straight up as possible (at least until you turn to go into desired orbit), it can cause the whole thing to fall apart from excessive G forces. That's kind of bad and it tend to happen especially if you have side mounted engines on one of the upper stages (like the NERVA atomic motors on my Aurora).

To fix that, connect the stages using struts to reinforce them (don't worry, struts have no mass and drag despite what the info text says). Also connect the side mounted parts to the main body of the rocket to make sure they don't wobble as well. Struts disconnect automatically when stages get separated, so you don't need to worry about assigning them to any stage in particular.

Look at this picture:

The spaceplane orbiter stage is connected to the interplanetary/orbital manuever stage via struts. This was done precisely so that vibrations would be minimized the whole thing didn't fall apart during lift off. Note that the nuclear engines are also connected with struts to the main body.

Similar here:

You can (barely) see that I connected the nuclear engines with the two side-mounted main carrier rockets beneath them.

Other things that help:

- placing 4 stiff (as in not capable of controlling the craft) wings/tails fins somewhere on the sides.

This design I am particularly proud of, the Perun lander (capable of reaching escape velocity and transfer to any planet it wants from Kerbin surface), uses four tail fins to ensure a ridiculously stable atmospheric descent. As it turned out they also work for ascent, despite being backwards. Thought they would hinder it, but then again the aerodynamics model in Kerbal is very simplistic for the moment (which is why planes behave oddly, among other things).

The whole thing is supposed to soft land on Eve without using even a liter of fuel and return to Kerbin from Eve surface. Haven't gotten it to Eve yet (messed up a pre-transfer orbit, was too impatient to wait 20-50 orbit before I got a good launch window for a transfer again from that), as it's rather heavy and require a lagfest of a carrier rocket+interplanetary/de-orbit stage.

But it can land on kerbin safely (and pretty much anything with an atmosphere with similar density) using aerobraking and deploying parachutes. It has to fall at a (near) perfect straight angle, otherwise when you deploy the parachutes they rip off a part or two making it unable to return, even if it doesn't blow up. That and it has to do that anyway if it is supposed to soft land properly, parachutes or no parachutes.

- more steerable winglets, although usually I don't even bother unless you need to turn while still inside the atmosphere to reach your target orbit altitude.

 

[Oesophagus]

I am proud to have contributed to this thread

Although it is also Andrzejki, and I am drunk, therefore my pride is irrelevant

 

[Cool name]

@ Hellraiser: I am very grateful for the very detailed post. I did manage to have a rocket reach space, come back, and do an almost gentle landing. I will keep to work on it. Now I only need to apply the concepts on a pulp-like rocketship.

I did even make one of my stupid spaceplanes FLY. And LAND.

This game is awesome.

 

[Hellraiser]

0.18 is out, I think I'll make a new topic for any shenanigans I'll pull off in that.

 

[potatojohn]

I made a tinyyy mun rocket - only 12.99 kerbal tons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ODPF9Ii25w

 

[Hellraiser]

I made a tinyyy mun rocket - only 12.99 kerbal tons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ODPF9Ii25w

I've got bad news, it would be heavier in 0,18. Jets require intakes now,the good news is that multiple ones allow them to be useful at higher altitudes than previously. Then again if you stuck a Stayputnik on it instead of a 1 man pod, it would have over 900 kg less of mass. But it would be unmanned then obviously, so no munwalking for you.

New maneuver planning system is fucking awesome. If you screw up during a burn, it automatically switches the marker's position on the nav-ball to the direction of the correction burn, updating the delta V you need for correction accordingly. Not as brainless as mechjeb but far more accurate than protractor ever was, allows easy planning of any orbit change, not just encounters. Also orbital paths during encounters show the actual path this time rather than a simplification, so you actually see how the gravity of a celestial body twists your otherwise fairly predictable trajectory.

 

[potatojohn]

I've got bad news, it would be heavier in 0,18. Jets require intakes now,the good news is that multiple ones allow them to be useful at higher altitudes than previously. Then again if you stuck a Stayputnik on it instead of a 1 man pod, it would have over 900 kg less of mass. But it would be unmanned then obviously, so no munwalking for you.

I have tried 0.18 for a bit, but I'm sticking to 0.17.1 until mechjeb is updated. I'm lost without the additional info and the attitude control.

I don't understand what the ion engine is for considering KSP only allows 4x time acceleration. Even with the most minimal satellite, you're looking at a 30min+ burn to get to Duna.

Maybe mechjeb will reveal some clever exploits. I sure hope so.

I do like how the jets perform now. I made a very simple space plane and it reached over 1km/s in the atmosphere on the jets alone. Previously I believe it only got to around 600m/s. So that's pretty cool for building more realistic SSTO spaceplanes.

The jets do have radial air intakes, so they can be used as a first stage in simple rockets. But you can't connect them directly to decuplers like I did in the video, since you can't mount the intakes on the jets - only fuel tanks

 

[Hellraiser]

Mechjeb should get an update soon, yeah I agree the info it gives is nice like TWR and delta V per stage. The prominent modders got access to the internal testing version, so they could update their mods faster.

Yeah, I'm not sure about ion engines as well. But I think they work at a higher time warp than usual, I think there was something about it in the options when I looked around. ANyway posting my latest shenanigans in a new topic.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Prof. Dr. Eng. Spermatov, Chief Engineer
(on behalf)

Privyet!

Congratulations to sister nation Poland for successful victory in our battle to space!

Your spaceplane that can fly to Eve is something which Koviet Union will also need very necessary in future.

Your comrade general secretary should award you with medal "Brofist". You have shown to international public that full potential of technology and science can exist only in true socialist society! We congratulate you for progress in our space program, without resources required of Koviet Union. We have trust you don't forget your mutual agreement: To provide helpful assistance and access to all socialist nations which need her for flight into Kosmos (only Koviet Union). Without argument, we quickly require potato oxidizer technology and all science data.

By the way, Chief Engineer (myself) still on holiday in Taiga mountains. Meanwhile development of rocket technolody now in hand of KKGB, which make more small, affordable rockets with new program 0.18, and also less civilian questions involved. The specific detail can not be announced before full success. Only that in future rockets will become more simple and use part from default magazine, because much more economic.

 

[Burning Bridges]

An interesting find on the internet: a Duna mission was succesfully funded through kickstarter.com. Unfortunately the creators had rl problems, and the project was abandoned during the landing.

But a few pictures were taken with a chinese 15$ onboard camera.

 

[Burning Bridges]

We receive proof that in fact capitalist agency KIA operate black space program. Image show secret test which was success, with possible harmful intention against ourself.

 

[Burning Bridges]

I think it's time for a short update on our national space program.

The world has changed in the recent months. New program versions have rendered most of our technology obsolete (as well as that of our rivals). We make it no secret that on our recent mission we were cooperating with "someone" - the Kair Force, as well as one of our well known clandestine organizations. Our partners will make sure that we receive more economic rockets (greater ease of assembly and weight saving), using default components.

In the current mission we have tested a lightweight rocket and rover. Despite some problems the mission was a great success, the Munar vehicle covered 19 kilometres on the surface and is still operating. It uses some of the new features like solar panels, rechargeable batteries and scientific equipment.

The launch achieved a clean LEO at 60-80km. But at this height we are now limited to 4x time compression.

For the Mun encounter we only need 1/2 orbit, but I can't tell you how much this would suck, if you were for example planning a Duna encounter, and your phase angle is off by several degrees!!

TLI, we get rid of our second stage.

Trajectories in the new version work like a breeze. No problem at all to get an encounter.

Solar panels are a new feature, and they now actually feed electric power into the batteries. Just don't forget to extend them or you may lose the whole mission!

Mun encounter, no problems.

The descent begins.

After the landing, the descent tower is jettisoned.

There are many advantages to have the descent engines on top of the landing craft, but we also had a great number of problems with this design, so we must consider something else for the future.

We have terrain scatter enabled.

So far the vehicle covered over 19 km, and may still reach the Maria (dark gray).

Thanks to new scientific equipment, we could measure exactly the gravitational field of the Mun!

 

[Hellraiser]

A top descent stage is an interesting design, but it makes a lot of sense. I thought of something different for the stock-part only rover I made for Polant, which had its own problems (but kind of worked). I'll post a screenshot later to show you what I did when I get access to the PC I have them on.

Do the rover wheels from the mod now use power? Would be nice if they did.

I also just realized I turned off terrain scatter for some reason.



I was wondering why I saw no trees on Kerbin

Also it makes driving easier which is popamole, although even without it my rover had some problems due to being designed with kerbin's gravity in mind. You need to watch how fast it goes or it starts doing stunt jumps and crashes. Maximum stable land speed in somewhat bumpy (but not hilly) terrain was about 50 or 60 m/s, but anywhere with less gravity that would be lower.

I just realized I made a rover go about or more than 200 km/h

 

[Burning Bridges]

The top descent stage - "tower" - is probably better suited for planets with an athmosphere, like Duna. For it could be arranged: parachute - descent stage - parachute - lander. That way the (heavy) stage can be separated before touchdown and the rest done with a parachute.

One problem is the engines, which neither look very realistic, nor work efficiently. Plus the stock tanks are too bulky and my stack became too top heavy.

If no precise landing is required we can probably do without a descent stage, for a couple of parachutes is probably enough. I have not tested this though, and would like to be sure before I send a mission to Duna.

On Mun I had to do some tricks to get rid of the tower after touchdown (placing the solar panels so they nullify the thrust when deployed, then when the stage is separated the tower just flies off - this works quite well). Worst of all, the top heavy stack was a real bitch to fly and land, so I don't really like it as it is now.

The cart mod does not use energy, at least I don't think it does. Battery was always fully loaded with the two solar panels.

Top speed was about 25 m/s, the cart was very stable otherwise I couldn't have covered such a long distance without crashing it. It's the best rover I have found so far.

Also it makes driving easier which is popamole, although even without it my rover had some problems due to being designed with kerbin's gravity in mind. You need to watch how fast it goes or it starts doing stunt jumps and crashes. Maximum stable land speed in somewhat bumpy (but not hilly) terrain was about 50 or 60 m/s, but anywhere with less gravity that would be lower.

I already mentioned such problems in previous versions. Mainly that a descent engine perfectly balanced on Kerbin is not suited for the Mun, because of the different gravity. It will hover up and down wildly from even the slightest changes in thrust. Several complex, heavy landing craft I developed for the Koviet Union failed because of that. Which is a shame because they looked really cool, and now I can't use them in the newer versions.

 

[Burning Bridges]

An interesting find was that a light vehicle like the one I used can be landed with the RCS thrusters alone (at least for the final descent). This may be be an interesting direction in the construction of a better lander.

 

[Hellraiser]

Why didn't you use the smallest fuel tank though? It's big enough to just barely fit the 4 radial-mounted small engines you used and should have enough fuel to land that rover.

Yeah, in a lower gravity the lander may behave oddly if it was balanced for kerbin. However I usually manage to make them fairly symmetrical and have RCS+ASAS to point them exactly down during the final approach. I usually place two rows of 4 linear and 4 directional thrusters in a circular pattern at the top and bottom (4 rows total).

Like this:

xoxoxoxo
oxoxoxox

That way they can stabilize most crafts easily in all directions, although I think a 3 row design would be better for stability. Or that I should do it to be symmetrical instead of identical. I need to experiment with that.

Works good most of the time, assuming the descent path is exactly straight down with no horizontal velocity. That's the hardest part of every no atmosphere celestial body landing really. Although with practice you get better at it and it's still easier than docking.

EDIT: Yeah, RCS is enough to land it on the Mun if you have enough thrusters.

 

[Burning Bridges]

You mean the thoroidal tank? That one did not have enough fuel for the radial engines, they are not fuel efficient.

As for RCS, I just use 4 thrusters on top, with ASAS that should be enough, although I may have missed something.

 

[Burning Bridges]

"Macht Den Weltraum Frei!"

West Kermany acquires Rover and makes successful test on Kerbin.

Mission aptly named "Duna 1".

Today West Kermany succesfully conducted a powered descent on Kerbin. A Kerman A5 Volksrakete carried the standard Rover/Lander into an orbit (rover acquired under the Marshal Plan), then made a safe landing using powered descent and parachutes.

In orbit, the spaceship had a 90% full FLT 800 tank remaining. This would be enough to accelerate to another planet, and opens up the way for interplanetary missions, if the Bundesrepublik authorizes more money for space flight.

Korst Schindler, Raketenversuchsabteilung

First, I want to thank Ulminati & the Kenish Space Program for some nice ideas, which helped us to build this nice rocket

Download ship: Volksrakete ( requires CleverBobCat mod )

The A5 Volksrakete, a lightweight vehicle that is able to reach other planets.

Duna 1 takes into the sky.

Zurück in den Weltraum.

At 18.000m, side boosters were discarded, time to get into orbit.

Orbital insertion stage is a bit tricky, needs a lot of RCS and practice with the controls.

But the rocket can complete orbital insertion with almost a full FLT 800 tank left - that's the double 1m tank -
We expect that's more than enough for interplanetary flight.

We let the ship complete one orbit at 100km, then we decelarate for a landing ..

.. anywhere on the brown part of Kerbin.

Approaching landing area.

We aim for a landing site in the Kobi Desert.

Descent rate on Kerbin is HIGH, and ship is pretty hard to control.

Opening the parachute, that part was a lot more wobbly than we expected, you really feel the 9.81 m/s^2 of Kerbin.

We drop the reserve RCS, which is intended to serve as a weight during descent ( the craft is really light ).

Braking with thrusters like mad (Kerbins gravity is a lot different to the Mun, and we feel it)

The chute opens up finally. This stunt won't do on the Mun, we know

Before final touchdown, we still brake a bit with the thrusters.

Touchdown - ohne probleme.

Deployment of the Solar Panels, even if they are not needed on Kerbin.

The landing site in the Kobi Mountains.

 

[Hellraiser]

I didn't mean the toroidal tank, I emant the other one:

http://kspwiki.nexisonline.net/wiki/Oscar-B_Fuel_Tank

It has the same amount of fuel but you can just stack 2-3 and use low-thrust. I actually landed a rover and even deorbited a lander without using most of the fuel.