Let's collect the stuff we would like to see improved in here

[Angelo85]

This Thread is intended for constructive criticism, for the inevitable, generic "AoD sucks ballz" criticism please curl into a ball on the floor and cry for your mommy voice your opinion in one of the GD Threads.

Personally I only spend about a good hour with the Demo (and most of that in the Character creation, a promising sign :D), but I would already like to point out some smaller things that kinda bothered me and - at least to my very limited understanding of game programming - I believe could be changed relatively easy, while in return would improve the gaming experience in some of the cases tremendously.

Inventory:

- I would like to see a short Tooltip popping up while my cursor hoovers above the little icons at the top center for the different categories you can sort the inventory by (e.g. "Show weapons only", "Show armor only" etc.).
Sure you can figure the different meanings of the icons out quite intuitively, still the lack of Tooltip kinda stood out to me.

- Being able to equip/unequip items by double clicking on them for convenience reasons.
Since you can rightclick on items and choose "equip", a mechanic for associating item types with the different equipment slots should already exist (e.g. item is a ring, therefore it goes into the ring equipment slot)?

- The ability to easily compare an item in your inventory to the item you have currently equipped.
This could for example be achieved via a transparent pop-up above/next to the existent description box. Meaning when you hoover with your mouse above an item you would like to compare, the info gets displayed "as usual" at the bottom right.
But there would be a pop-up containing the information (minus fluff for length reasons, so the first part of the item descriptions only, which contain the important hard numbers) of the item that is currently equipped in the slot where the item from your inventory would fit into.

I guess the bug you can see in the Screenshot where longer item descriptions break the "description box" of the inventory should already be known.


Navigation/Interaction:

- You rightclick to go somewhere, but use a leftclick on NPCs/items to initiate interactions, whereas a rightclick while hoovering over the target just moves the player closer.
This mechanic struck me as counterintuitive. I would like to see that either rightclicking or leftclicking is used for both moving to a specific point on the map and initiating interactions while hoovering over interactive objects/NPCs.

- The Mapscreen should indicate where the player character is currently located via an icon for easier orientation. An alternative approach would be to show the outline of the camera on the mapscreen.


Camera:

- Having an option to reset the camera angle to the default value via a hotkey.
I personally play mostly with the default camera angle in 3D games. But sometimes I want to investigate something or the default camera angle conceals something and I have to shift it around.
When I move the camera back to it's original position afterwards, most of the time it's not in quite the same spot as the default angle. Suddenly everything seems a bit off or feels just not quite right. That's why I love the option to reset the camera to it's default position in 3D games.
Perhaps the option for reseting the camera angle could be integrated into the Menu via a tickbox and gets tied to the "center on player" hotkey, just like the level of zoom currently is.

 

[Ion Prothon II]

There are my suggestions:

- In the conversations, it would be better if the text was accumulated in a scrollable textbox, like in Infinity games. Or into the 'global' textbox thing.

- Quests seem to overuse the insta- travel feature when advancing quests. It's not a bad idea, but occures too often. In some cases it would be better to leave player a choice if go somewhere at once or on his own. Sometimes it's irritating. Like when player get some skillpoints, then is forced to continue the quest without an ability to invest them (and fails to do sth, since he can't increase some startegic skill): like loremaster vs device in the mine after convincing Raiders to take care of soldiers in the outpost.

- Quicksave & quickload feature.

- A hotkey to highlight all objects & characters player can interact with.

 

[hiver]

All i can say from my short playthrough and reading other posts about it is that the game needs a more detailed introduction overall - for new players especially.

The first intro screens with some lore of the world flash by too quickly. Being in or coming to or waking up in Teron isnt sufficiently pointed out overall and jars with some dialogues in start of merchant playthrough as guild master is talking to you like youve been there before that with his "dont you remember...?" lines about the trader.

The world map is nice but it doesnt help that its centered on Madooran and it doesnt show youre in Teron actually. Local map also doesnt show where you are which would be useful.

Im all for tough combat but seeing how this is a starting town some of the first encounters should be toned down so that new players can get a hang of things more easily.
Then ramp it up as quests evolve. First assassin can be a newbie sent to prove his worth. It wouldnt feel illogical. Some street thugs could be easier to deal with too at the very start.

Include the option of "Ill walk there" for many of first quick travels too, letting the player get to know the place a bit more on their own. With fast travel on the map and some NPC reminding the players to "use the map" it wont be any problem.

Its relatively easy to go through this if youre someone whos been following the game already but for newcomers it might be altogether a bit off putting.
And i dont mean toning down the game for people that dont like these types of games anyway either.

- minor thing - I get a journal entry about having the map and needing to take it to someone even if i didnt find it in the first room with the dead merchant - which i cannot do until i try to leave the room anyway.
- there are also some unusable saves in the save/load section.

- You rightclick to go somewhere, but use a leftclick on NPCs/items to initiate interactions, whereas a rightclick while hoovering over the target just moves the player closer.
This mechanic struck me as counterintuitive. I would like to see that either rightclicking or leftclicking is used for both moving to a specific point on the map and initiating interactions while hoovering over interactive objects/NPCs.

Dont agree with this.

 

[good little toastboy]

My female thief started with men's armor, at least I guess that's why I couldn't equip it again (I remember seeing something about 'crossdressing' in recent patchlogs) after disguising myself as a merchant.

 

[Vault Dweller]

All i can say from my short playthrough and reading other posts about it is that the game needs a more detailed introduction overall - for new players especially.

Working on it now.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Stop messing with my equipped stuff! I guess it's because of the text-adventures but often my assassin has a completely different dagger in hand and has lost her bola / net - leading me into having to spend valuable AP opening inventory and re-equipping them. Is this WAD? Not end of the world, slightly irritating.

 

[Smashing Axe]

Where can I buy different arrows from regular? Checked the merchant stalls, my assassin can't exactly go and ask the Imperial Guards, can he? If it is the case, and I haven't missed something painfully obvious, I'd suggest adding some more ranged equipment options somewhere.

 

[Lord Rocket]

Adjustable mouse speed
More keyboard shortcuts, esp. for conversations
Bigger/adjustable textboxes in conversations (they're transparent! You don't need to have a big, blank, useless space in the middle so we can see what's going on, and the text scrolling gets on my nerves)
Rebindable keyb shortcuts within the game (config screens are typically the fastest and most info dense way to learn a game's controls. And change them if I don't like them, which right now I don't)
REBINDABLE KEYB SHORTCUTS WITHIN THE GAME
Rebindable mouse buttons within the game. Specifically, I want to play with l click move r click interact.

Actually just being able to rebind shit would solve 99% of my issues with this. There's really no excuse for not letting the player do this in game. Especially in a PC game.

 

[alkeides]

Where can I buy different arrows from regular? Checked the merchant stalls, my assassin can't exactly go and ask the Imperial Guards, can he? If it is the case, and I haven't missed something painfully obvious, I'd suggest adding some more ranged equipment options somewhere.

Assassins should use crossbows. You can get armour-piercing missiles from the blacksmith. Crossbows and armour-piercing missiles are essential for the end fights IMO.

There are some misspellings in the demo.

Qantari is spelled inconsistently, sometimes Quantari sometimes Qantari. The storyteller says Quantari IIRC.
The clothes seller says "good" instead of "goods".

 

[Wild Slop]

Something such as NPC ID by hovering cursor over would be nice. Could be within limited range/in same room and having already met (with exception of high rep. such as an [undisguised] prominent figure).

Now for something of more substance.

When directly talking to Carrinas as merchant only option 1) "I might" appears. After earning my death, on a whim I went back and pressed 2 anyway... treated to something else.
Now I'll be wondering how many instances where such is the case. Is this just a demo thing?

*Oh yah. A small plus to be able to switch different menus by shortcuts without having to first close current window. C for character doesn't work while viewing inventory.

 

[Hellraiser]

Are enemies being able to heal themselves from being cripple intentional? Also if it is the "crippled" icon sometimes does not disappear after they stop being crippled. It was rather surprising to see the guy suddenly run normally despite it being still above his head. It even persisted after he died.

Or maybe my loremaster bowman's 10 PE was not enough to spot that he was bluffing the injury

 

[Jack]

Things that doesn't sit entirely right with me:

• The constant teleportation, it's driving me nuts. It also lessens the gameplay time considerably.
• Fast travel in the city is completely unnecessary, it's not big enough to be needed.
• No exploration, the whole map is revealed from the beginning. It's a shame considering how much time must've went into making the city look good.
• Equipment dysfunction - Where is that axe i was holding and why have I drawn a knife?
• The camera is kinda shoddy, having the option to make the camera follow the character would be nice.

The combat certainly doesn't lack challenge and the C&C is fabulous. Going to have to agree with Skyway's early assessment that the challenge level when playing as non-combat focused characters is quite low in comparison to combat focused ones, don't know if that's intended or not.

 

[Noddy]

Suggestions
When i select an attack type, the weapon selected should switch to the one i chose the attack for. The amount of times i've accidently shield bashed or thrown a net instead is far to high.

After using a thrown weapon the attack type should stay rather than defaulting to normal throw. Just saves on right clicking and can get especially annoying when kiting.

It's way to fucking short, if this is a quarter of the game and you can breeze through it an hour or two with a non combat character this does not bode well. There's like two quests to do for you guild in teron before you're off. Needs filler, needs lore, needs conversations with randoms, needs more quests, needs exploration, needs WORDS. Shit like the descriptions of characters you get when you first meet them should be gotten from chatting to people.

I don't mind the camera but there's two things that annoy me. The first is that i can scroll the entire map. It means i almost never move my character beacuse i can just move the camera there and then scan my mouse over shit to see if it goes yellow. Makes me feel a bit disconnected from my char, you know?
Second thing is how you can't rotate it through space that's not part of map, if that makes sence. Doesn't matter on large maps but on little one it can get irritating.

Max dex is OP. CON is severly UP.

NPC's who are supposed to be helping me but keeping killstealing and taking my sp's annoys me. Don't really know if that's fixable though.

I hope there still some low skill checks later in the game so hybridism can have it uses. Also heavy specialization doesn't seem to have allot use for non combat chars ofeg. no stealth check over 50 for a thief?

I'd like for some non-combat skills to have use outside of dialog. Let me steal shit.

Too much gold, i'm fucking swimming in it.

Game suffers from Acadamagicia syndrome, by which i mean when presented with a choice i'll almost always just click the option that will succeed\get my the most sp, rather than trying to role play or think about what i'm doing.

Bugs and the like

Archer bandits don't follow if you run a corner immediatly. Let's you take out the melee ones and generally makes it a piece of piss fight.

When i'm fighting my way out after the mine there's a specific spot near the stakes that if i net an enemy i can't then click to throw at him. I just threw a net at him so he's in my throw range, i just can't click him.

Can you not complete the find the gold quest in the demo or am i bugges\being retarded? Where the fuck is that village?

Crippled and netted icons are fucked. Show up and go away when they feel like it.

PS i really like the game

PPS what do i have to do to get that assasin to train me? My bodycount is well over 27 but he just tells me to leave.

Where can I buy different arrows from regular? Checked the merchant stalls, my assassin can't exactly go and ask the Imperial Guards, can he? If it is the case, and I haven't missed something painfully obvious, I'd suggest adding some more ranged equipment options somewhere.

Assassins should use crossbows. You can get armour-piercing missiles from the blacksmith. Crossbows and armour-piercing missiles are essential for the end fights IMO.

There really not. Combat's really good. There's a ton a builds that are viable.

 

[alkeides]

I like the fast travel features (map as well as scrolling out) personally. Refreshing after having to go through modern games which force you to go walking around with third person cam behind the head.

Switching equipment on you suddenly as well as immediately teleporting to the quest destination is a slight problem though. The first assassin shouldn't immediately put you in combat without some time to prepare your equipment IMO.

 

[alkeides]

My Praetor got the mantras from Sohrab but still didn't manage to activate the machine, is that intended?

Also, with my merchant, the journal prematurely flags Cado's entry for disguising myself as the Imperial Envoy when I only spoke to Mercato.

 

[TheEntitledOne]

I'm the only one who hates the difficulty? I feel like I'm forced to powergame, I never have enough points to invest, so I need previous knowledge of what challenges I'm going to encounter to advance... Is it really intended to be like that? Or am I doing something really wrong?

 

[Mrowak]

As much as I like the demo there's bunch of stuff that got on my nerves. Most of them have been covered by my esteemed colleagues. I will focus on dialogue and skill choices.

1). The skill continuity within the dialogue tree. I described that in one of the posts in the other thread. Basically it comes to this. Let's say I have a branching option to use certain skill-sets e.g.:

a). [Persuasion/Streetwise]
b). [Trade]

I don't happen to have many points in [Trade] so I go with the mode a). thinking that if something will follow it will be [Persuasion] or [Streetwise] checks. However, the only option I get after choosing this node is [Streetwise/Trade]. So if I invested a lot of points between [Persuasion] and [Streetwise], but little in [Trade] does it mean I am doomed to fail this node, no matter what? It literally feels as if the game was trolling me into picking the node a). only for me to discover that I still will need a skill I don't have.

Proposal: First of all, it would be better if when more than option was offered within one branching node, the following nodes did not utilize the skills you didn't pick in the first one. In other words please, let's not have [Trade] in node 2 when I didn't select it in node 1 - especially if it's going to be the only option. To my mind, it stands to reason - after all once you set your strategy you don't plan the way you lead the conversation around the skills you are aware that you do not possess.

Secondly, how about changing the meaning of the skill in square brackets - instead of indicating the skill-set that will be checked immediately after choosing the option, it will indicate which skills are going to be used in the following branch? Say if you have

a).[Persuasion/Streetwise]

After selecting it you are given the following choices:

i). <Persuasion> AAAAAA
ii). <Persuasion/Streetwise> BBBBBBB
iii). <Streetwise> CCCCCCC
iv). <Streetwise> DDDDDD
v). [Trade] EEEEEE
vi). <> Neutral text

where angle brackets show the skill that is going to be actually used. This way the player would have at least a marginal idea what he can expect after selecting a node.

I am aware that implementation of such changes this late in development could prove counterproductive, but it is at least worth considering for the next title.

2. As much as I love skillchecks system, as many have noted before in AoD it all too often resembles clicking [I WIN!!111] button. Frequently there's little thought involved in picking the option, other than "well, I have shitloadz of points in this skill, so let's go for it". I think AoD could use the way some skillchecks worked in Mask of the Betrayer. In that game you could get options like these (ok, I "enhanced" the options a little):

a). [Diplomacy] AAAAAA (consequence A, if success)
b). [Diplomacy] BBBBBB (consequence B, if success)
c). [Diplomacy] CCCCCC (failure if success, critical failure if check failed)
d). [Bluff] DDDDDD (consequence A, if success)
e). [Bluff] EEEEEE (consequence B with some bonus if success, but critical failure if check failed)

A short explanation is in order. Choices a), b) and d) lead to different consequences. Choice c) goes against beliefs/agenda of the interlocutor or challenges some special abilites he may have (e.g. Gann didn't like when you tried sucking up to him, and Kaylin could discern lies) so in the best case scenario you just fail, in the worst you fail critically. Node e) is a gamble reflecting e.g. a snarky remark - depending on the skill score/roll you enjoy extra benefits or penalty. The consequences of critical success or failure don't have to be anything serious - e.g. reputation boost/reduction.

A dialogue tree branched in this way will hold player's interest better and show that he is in control of things. He will read all the options at his disposal and carefully pick the one he thinks it would work.

Again, AoD is probably too late in development to have something like that, but I think the possibilities this system offers are worth analysing.

Something that can be easily done at this point - remove the square brackets with the skills altogether. In their place put something like an astrix (*) just to indicate that some skill is used with that option. As a result the player would feel compelled to at least read all the options, instead of mindlessly clicking. However, this would require from the writing to clearly indicate which skills are to be used, which may be problemtic with some pairs (e.g. Persuasion vs. Trade) or skill combinations (e.g. Persuasion + Streetwise).

 

[Vault Dweller]

My Praetor got the mantras from Sohrab but still didn't manage to activate the machine, is that intended?

Yes. The lore check is lower if you have the mantra, but some knowledge is still required.

Also, with my merchant, the journal prematurely flags Cado's entry for disguising myself as the Imperial Envoy when I only spoke to Mercato.

Will be fixed.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Again, AoD is probably too late in development to have something like that, but I think the possibilities this system offers are worth analysing.

Yes. Good post though. Definitely worth analyzing and learning on our mistakes.

 

[alkeides]

a). [Diplomacy] AAAAAA (consequence A, if success)
b). [Diplomacy] BBBBBB (consequence B, if success)
c). [Diplomacy] CCCCCC (failure if success, critical failure if check failed)
d). [Bluff] DDDDDD (consequence A, if success)
e). [Bluff] EEEEEE (consequence B with some bonus if success, but critical failure if check failed)

A short explanation is in order. Choices a), b) and d) lead to different consequences. Choice c) goes against beliefs/agenda of the interlocutor or challenges some special abilites he may have (e.g. Gann didn't like when you tried sucking up to him, and Kaylin could discern lies) so in the best case scenario you just fail, in the worst you fail critically. Node e) is a gamble reflecting e.g. a snarky remark - depending on the skill score/roll you enjoy extra benefits or penalty. The consequences of critical success or failure don't have to be anything serious - e.g. reputation boost/reduction.

I think there's a bit of this in the demo or maybe I'm interpreting it wrongly. My merchant forged a letter from Carrinas and showed it to Antidas but got an intelligence fail check. Don't know if it's because of my INT being too high or too low though.

 

[SuicideBunny]

• ability to pick conversation options with num-block keys would be a huge plus.
• bigger conversation window in the upper half of the screen, even just a few pixels, though that depends on how torque handles scaling, i guess... on 1920x1080 it sometimes displays the scroll bar which lets you scroll down like 3 pixels because the font size does not fit into the window very well.
• the character model in the corner during char creation also felt too dark and too small, especially considering you are supposed to choose stuff like circlets, which are barely noticeable on smaller (read laptop) screens.
• clear immediately visible/readable weapon type would be nice, rather than having to read the entire flavor text for a given weapon every single time.
• on that topic, being able to filter crafting again for weapon and armor types rather than just the two broad categories would be nice.
• sometimes you cannot equip or decompose stuff (my female loremaster could not wear a loremaster turban, only the hood, and i could not decompose some lighter leather armors looted from the bandit camp that i could craft myself either) and the game gives no feedback whatsoever as to why, which is annoying.
• being forced out of town in a non-interactive manner after killing the thieves guild leader and the "get out of town while you still live" imperial guard group sucked big time considering how much effort it took. didn't even get to loot the guards, which sucked way more.

 

[hiver]

How about making constitution have some effect on how many APs the player gets together with dexterity? So its a kind of synergy between the two of them?

 

[Erebus]

I do agree with what Mrowak says. While it's nice for skills to be important, the player ends up using them rather mindlessly : choices often aren't really choices, because the player will automatically pick the options associated to the skills he's maxed.

Not mentioning which skill is associated with a specific option is a nice idea, that would require the player to think more than he otherwise would.

It would also be a good idea, when facing a problem, to have two possible options involving a certain skill instead of just one. The two options don't have to lead to different consequences, they can simply present different levels of difficulty. Let's say for instance the PC is trying to gain the cooperation of a NPC : he's offered two possible [Persuasion] dialogue options, one appealing to the NPC's greed, the other to his sense of honor ; if he picks the best one (based on what he has guessed of the NPC's personality), he faces an easier skill check. Such a thing could work with all non-combat skills.

 

[hiver]

1. Show several dialogue options related to several skills, including those that the player increased the most, but leaving it to him to choose the replies, even if he chooses a skill he didnt directly increase. (the player gets to see other options and some of the consequences of choosing them)
Therefore this issue stops forcing save-load gameplay (in conjunction with further suggestions below, to be sure). And it stops being "choose just one option you get" to "win".


2. Make skill check requirements a bit looser than just 1 point precise.


3. Add less optimal, less savory consequences for getting a 47 instead of 52 or 53 or 55 (or whatever is the final scope or breadth of required skill checks).
Example - that assassin quest everyone is talking about. - if the player scores a check lower then required minimum make him "appear" inside a gang of fighters because he fudged his sneaking, if he scores a bit more or exactly as minimum give him a bit better result and give him the
optimal, best result only if he scores the maximum required check level. The difference can be small - but noticeable, on some places. Bigger in other situations.


4. Add more situations where failure isnt death, but a complication requiring another attempt or changing approach. Or a non lethal punishment of different kinds. Kill the player only where its absolutely necessary but avoid it where its not the only possible outcome. Feel free to make those
complications of failure or minimal score as difficult and serious as you like. "Increasing the dodge" raiders situations. Do more of those and other appropriate ones.


5. Allow the player to choose to walk to next destination himself instead of teleporting him around except if he wants to. Change "leave" to "ill walk there." - in most cases. Having just "leave" doesnt sound right for most of those situations. Remove most of the forced
teleportations with no other option. Make it always an option to choose or not. This will enable the players to manage their skill points or gear or have a breather, save and think - if they want to.
It will also let them go over stuff quicker when they replay.


6. Take these as an idea:

Skillchecks should be more predictable. Maybe skills should be associated with specific groups of NPC? Like:
Streetwise - thugs, beggars and other lowlife scum
Etiquette - nobles and wannabees
Persuade - common people and all those who doesn't fall in any category
Intimidate - everybody, but it should be supported by something like bodycount, good gear or reputation so you can't intimidate someone into shitting his pants only with the power of your majestic personality
So if someone send you to deal with the bandits you'll know that you need streetwise and your fancy etiquette will only get you horribly raped. Then you gather some info on these bandits and find out that their leader is not a stupid brute but an intelligent ex-noble. And because of this "ex" he hates etiquette even more, but can be reasoned with by logical persuasion. You have a choice: persuade him or use streetwise skill on his thugs.
With info gathering part dialogues really can be puzzle-like. Also to support this model player should be allowed to use every fucking skill on every fucking NPC. Wrong skills always fail (maybe with some exceptions).

That's a very good point, and sometimes the game does bear it out. My persuasion-heavy Praetor was able to talk Dellar into making the raiders fight IG, but when I talked to the raider guy it was either Streetwise or a Persuasion-Trading combination, meaning I couldn't get it done.

What would be really cool is if, as metzger says, the skills become a lot more exclusive, and then, faction reputation / general reputation / traits introduce new possibilities. E.g. instead of a situation where you need to use streetwise to persuade a thief or a persuade-trading combo, you might have a streetwise option, then a persuade-reputation combo. i.e. although the thief can see you don't speak his language, he can see you have a strong reputation with the thieves or as a hardened fighter, and is prepared to listen to your more highbrow persuasion. In that case, (1) the exclusivity of skills means you know what you're specialising in and you know what to expect more; (2) but you still maintain some possibility of branching out and being more flexible through the actions you take in the gameworld.

Perhaps some of this already happens - I didn't see too many instances where traits/reputations factor in dialogue in the demo, but I assume they will very much as you progress in the game. There's a lot of potential there and I hope it is used.

And Mrowak post above.

edit

7. remove dialogue check results in brackets as explained here :
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/age-of-decadence-demo-released.70534/page-32

 

[Kalin]

So I just killed Carrinas in his office rather than taking the final IG mission, and I think I found a new bug. Only a few soldiers, including Shorty and the Centurion, came to his aid. The rest of the troops did not react (save for the tower crossbowmen who somehow managed to fire at me through the locked main barracks door). Also, the main door remained locked, preventing me from escaping, and the quest to talk to the Centurion I killed was still active.

Furthermore, while playing as a Loremaster and starting to work for Linos, I never seem to get his description, but rather just a simple "Yes?", as if I had already talked to him before. I enjoyed reading the description during the Praetor opening vignette and it would seem suitable for it to appear for all characters.

Another thing I noticed is that if I take the first Merchant quest and go to the gateguards, the scene with the refugees will play. After it has finished and I talk to the guards, the dialogue lines make it seem as if I already inquired about their pay cuts, the indebted officer and the Imperial Guards.

Finally, if I go to the Aurelian outpost and claim to be a loremaster but fail the lore check, the Aurelian Centurion will occupy the same spot as one of the Aurelian legionnaires, causing their textures to blend together. It looks quite odd the second time you visit the camp, but it does not seem to cause any serious in-game problems since they tend to move away from the spot.

(apologies if any of these points have already been brought up)