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Legend of Grimrock 2

Melan

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So I finally completed the game. It was a step up in complexity, size and difficulty from the first. The whole thing confirms my impression that the game lost some of the focus which made the original Legend of Grimrock so great, but it also opened up a lot of potential which will be fully realised in a sequel. This part feels like a hybrid between two very different approaches, and you can see the seams and the places where it doesn't work. But it is a major undertaking for such a small team, and for its price, it packs a surprising amount of content, so I am reasonably happy. The character building ended up more enjoyable than in the first game, even with the continuing short supply of skill points.

Pretty sure mods for this will be beyond excellent; with the editor, someone could do seriously good work.

On the other hand, I just restarted Grimrock 1 in Toorum mode, and going in as a single character it is even more fun than the regular experience. Toorum is basically Speedy Gonzales, and surprisingly, the dungeon challenges still work just fine, which shows how finely designed the game is (although high Hp monsters can be a slog to wear down).
 

Darth Roxor

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Started playing this.

I find it highly suspicious that I have just left the tutorial level and it hasn't made me rage incoherently yet. It's like it's a good game or something, wtf.

Although I'm sure it's just trying to lull me into a false sense of security.
 

cfisher2833

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Started playing this.

I find it highly suspicious that I have just left the tutorial level and it hasn't made me rage incoherently yet. It's like it's a good game or something, wtf.

Although I'm sure it's just trying to lull me into a false sense of security.

Oh, I am sure you'll come across a puzzle that sends you into an incoherent rage sooner or later.
 

Darth Roxor

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Damn, this game is fucking addictive. Makes me feel bad that I haven't played the first one now.
 

Jack Dandy

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You SHOULD feel bad about it! :obviously:
Going back to the first game after playing the second will make it seem far more limited. Especially when it comes to party builds and linearity.

Still, I think the first game's puzzles were a bit more varied and interesting than the second's. And the atmosphere is still fantastic. So it's worth to give it a playthrough as well!
 

Lord Azlan

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Many years ago I remember seeing my good mate showing off Dungeon Master on his Atari.

He is no longer a gamer. But I remember falling in love with that game and concept and promptly upgraded my C64 for an Amiga. In fact, that was the reason I bought an Amiga. Just to play Dungeon Master.

As a game, Dungeon Master was perfect. The Hall of Heroes, simply mindboggling characters. Who should I resurrect and play with.

Using the door switch to kill a bunch of mummies. Cutting up some monsters that left food behind. Yes, they left food behind.

The "arrghhhhhhh" you got when your front pair bumped into a wall. Even the spell system was simply fab. Some spells would fizzle. You could try and increase the power of spells. You had to EAT AND DRINK. Skills improved as you used them. We all know I could go on.

The feeling of nervousness. Trapped like a rat in a maze. It's coming and damn, do I go left or right. All the bloody walls look the same.

Did anyone else drop a trail of things on the floor to guide you sometimes? I did.

You all know what I mean. Real time action.

Maybe I got too old to dwell much on Chaos Strikes Back. Captive (not bad actually), Eye of the Beholders came and went. Lands of Lore too. Pfft. The Games that Time Forgot.

Years pass and I have a family. Grimrock is released and I get all excited like a little girl. I squeal in delight. I love it. It's not bad. For some reason I don't go all gushy talking about it. It's not my first crush or kiss. For some reason, with all the modern hardware, it is not as good.

I support this little company and now have Grimrock 2. I need to pause. Something is missing and I am now worried. It does not feel right.

Will I purchase Grimrock 3? Shrug.

Where are these sort of games going. How can they evolve. Should they forever remain locked up in a dungeon or can they be freed to roam the world?

I don't mind the dancing (Mambo), side stepping combat. I really don't. It makes sense in a perverse way that your puny party can't go fist to fist with some powerful types.

Where the grid based movement worked in a dungeon, it seems slightly artificial out in the real world. That is a bizarre idea as most games have this same problem. There are always places you can't go. So why does it feel so wrong in this game? Maybe the developers were unable to embrace the 'outside' concept and outside the game still plays like a dungeon. It isn't working.

I would really like to see large open spaces but wonder how the game engine would handle it. Bards Tale. Dragon Wars. My brain ain't working - but I think I have seen larger more open areas in grid based games.

NPC chit chat. I really think we need something. Even cutscenes for goodness sake. A shopkeeper? A looney dwarf that provides clues or backstory. Knightlore. No.

Knightmare - something like this. The TV show. Some encounters with people that talk please.

I am liking the alchemist with his rifle. I like the improved magic system. I like the puzzles. There must be puzzles. Some will piss me off. The graphics are gorgeous.

So - gaming in progress.

Had my first wtf moment when I first met the giant crab things. Somehow the first one was at liberty to move around at will. After I finished that off I ensure the other two were not freed at the same time. The first one took a very long time indeed. it was a quick mother.

Real time combat. Where are those pesky healing potions. I NEED ONE NOW.

I do like the game. It has me worried about the future though.
 

Jack Dandy

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If you want a truly open world, wouldn't the TES games be up your alley? Or the Souls games?
 

cvv

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Where the grid based movement worked in a dungeon, it seems slightly artificial out in the real world. That is a bizarre idea as most games have this same problem. There are always places you can't go. So why does it feel so wrong in this game? Maybe the developers were unable to embrace the 'outside' concept and outside the game still plays like a dungeon. It isn't working.

Grid based movement actually is a case of a gameplay mechanics born out of necessity, out of limited technology. It's gamey as fuck and free movement is IMO far superior. But grid movement still works for me and is still damn enjoyable. Plus it's great for something like LoG which is basically a puzzle game with some RPG mechanics thrown in since you can do all sorts of shenanigans with it that you just wouldn't be able to otherwise.

Btw even though MMX is a much better cRPG, LoG2 is more enjoyable game overall. That's why it's my personal GOTY this year.
 

Lord Azlan

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Grid based movement actually is a case of a gameplay mechanics born out of necessity, out of limited technology. It's gamey as fuck and free movement is IMO far superior. But grid movement still works for me and is still damn enjoyable. Plus it's great for something like LoG which is basically a puzzle game with some RPG mechanics thrown in since you can do all sorts of shenanigans with it that you just wouldn't be able to otherwise.

Btw even though MMX is a much better cRPG, LoG2 is more enjoyable game overall. That's why it's my personal GOTY this year.

Interesting, I never thought of Dungeon Master or LoG as a puzzle game. That makes sense.

If my failing memory serves me well - it seems Eye of the Beholder and Land of Lore were less puzzle based and more RPG - right?

I bought MMX in the Steam Sale but not had a go yet - don't have time. Grim 2, Wasteland 2 etc first.

LoG2 is a good game and I am enjoying it. It's not capturing my imagination like DM or LoG1 did - can't explain why.
 

Unkillable Cat

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I'd be quite surprised if Eye of the Beholder is less puzzle-based than Dungeon Master, and it's only more RPG than DM because it has NPCs you can converse with. EotB is not much of a RPG to begin with.

Lands of Lore has really very few puzzles, especially when compared to DM or EotB. It has more keyhunts and riddles rather than puzzles.
 

cfisher2833

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You SHOULD feel bad about it! :obviously:
Going back to the first game after playing the second will make it seem far more limited. Especially when it comes to party builds and linearity.

Still, I think the first game's puzzles were a bit more varied and interesting than the second's. And the atmosphere is still fantastic. So it's worth to give it a playthrough as well!

I loved the first Grimrock, but some of its puzzles were a tad annoying. Oh, I have to run through this portal sequence, and after the sixth portal, I have to do a 180 and press a button on the wall? Puzzles like that didn't feel clever, just bothersome, whereas in Grimrock 2, I didn't recall anything so egregious. Oh, and to Azlan: drugs maybe? Get a little high beforehand? That might help. :smug:
 

Jack Dandy

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I loved the first Grimrock, but some of its puzzles were a tad annoying. Oh, I have to run through this portal sequence, and after the sixth portal, I have to do a 180 and press a button on the wall? Puzzles like that didn't feel clever, just bothersome, whereas in Grimrock 2, I didn't recall anything so egregious. Oh, and to Azlan: drugs maybe? Get a little high beforehand? That might help. :smug:

That's what I liked so much about Grimrock - I suppose the sheer variety of the puzzles was something that really appealed to me. You had some brain teasers, some dexterity based ones, some that mixed the two, it was great.
 

Darth Roxor

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Finished.

BRETTY GUUD, Darth Roxor's official #2 rpgoty *stamp*

Although tbh I would probably have never found the 5th shrine without a walkthrough, that shit was really... not very intuitive. But I guess that's only to be expected from a 'secret' ending, so I don't mind.

Opening the pyramid was much more anal, however, and that left me legit upset :/
 

Unkillable Cat

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It's been 8 months since LoG2 was released, so I figured I'd have a look at the mod scene and see if any decent dungeons had come up.

One caught my eye, a 500 MB monster of a dungeon called "Isle of the Deranged" with 15+ hours of gameplay and many other promises. I download it, install it and give it a go.

The mod starts with the party trapped inside a cage, just like in the original campaign, except it's situated on top of a single block. No amount of punching opens the door, and there doesn't appear to be anything inside the cage to help facilitate my escape. So I start clicking around and accidentally pick up a branch that was invisible due to it being UNDER THE CAGE FLOOR, but due to me being in a click-fury, I also click on it again so that the branch is dropped OUTSIDE the cage - where it falls to the ground, out of reach.

I haven't even taken a single step, and I'm already screwed. Great start to a mod, don't you agree? :roll:

Anyway, I restart again, carefully click around the cage floor to find the branch (there were two branches, actually), equip it, and a single swing from it opens the cage. I step out, drop down and find a note. Pick it up and read it - typo. :roll::roll:

At this point I'm beginning to think that this is another humongous mod full of shit (first impressions are important, you know) but I decide to give it a shot and press on. It gets a bit challenging, but it's not bad. It just needs polishing.

After an hour's playthrough I look up the mod thread on the Grimrock forums. There one user asks how come a mod that barely uses any new material weighs in at half a gig. The author's response is something about unused assets and how he's reluctant (read: lazy) to remove them. Anyway, I decide to send the mod author a message, stating that his mod looks very promising, and then I explain to him about how the starting cage is poorly-thought out and needs to be changed.

His response?

I'm not changing this. Funnily enough I actually dropped the stick once too, but there's two there, and if the player drops them both then they can start again.

:retarded:

I'm sorry, but I don't deal with stupid modders, or their work. If such retarded design decisions are present at the start of the mod, odds are good that they'll be present at other places in the mod.

Uninstalled the mod and am continuing my search for a good LoG2 mod.

Conclusion: Avoid.
 

Unkillable Cat

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And...nothing. There are no decent or interesting Grimrock 2 mods out there...yet. :(

There is one that looks promising, but it changes too much, like adding a shop and such.
 

cvv

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And...nothing. There are no decent or interesting Grimrock 2 mods out there...yet. :(

There is one that looks promising, but it changes too much, like adding a shop and such.

I suspected as much tbh. Even though LoG2 is a much better game than the first one it sold way, way worse and garnered much less attention overall. The modding scene was bound to be smaller as well.

Huge, huge shame.
 

Unkillable Cat

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I think of the biggest reason is because Komag has departed the modding scene to raise a family.

He was a huge person both in the Thief community and then the Grimrock community.
 

cvv

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I think of the biggest reason is because Komag has departed the modding scene to raise a family.

He was a huge person both in the Thief community and then the Grimrock community.

Yeah Komag was genuinely incredible.
 

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