Legend of Grimrock 2

[Decado]

Fire Magic is OP'd, or at least more powerful than all the other forms. I agree, though, that the spell list is kind of barren. All those runes and this is all we get? Fuff!

 

[Renevent]

Well the point was that magic is very useful, and not just from a combat perspective but also from a utility perspective. I'm not sure how fire stacks up against the other schools as far as damage dealing goes. I'll take your word on that since I use fire for damage pretty exclusively. I did take air (or was it water?) so I could also cast dispel for those elemental immune enemies.

Question though, water (ice damage spells), for instance, I am assuming it doesn't do as much damage as fire but doesn't it have secondary effects like freezing enemies? Obviously doesn't have the damage output but wouldn't that be kinda useful allowing your party to just sit there and smack up the enemy?

 

[Lemming42]

I took a break from this for a while and just got back to it. Found the Crystal Mines, very cool. Felt like a badass when I got the Simulacrum puzzle and the "Only the Fearless may pass" puzzle.

 

[Renevent]

I took a break from this for a while and just got back to it. Found the Crystal Mines, very cool. Felt like a badass when I got the Simulacrum puzzle and the "Only the Fearless may pass" puzzle.

I got there yesterday as well and yeah, it's pretty awesome. Feel the same way about solving both of those puzzles were def interesting/fun. Same for just getting into the mine. The solution was actually pretty silly but have to admit it took me bit trying to step on the plates in some made up order lol. Once I figured it out (snail=slow) I was like doh!

Anyways currently stuck in mines at the moment...not sure what/where I am supposed to go. Cleared pretty much everything out as far as I can tell including the two seperate "pit" areas.

 

[Metro]

Wonder why they ended up not going with their originally planned skill trees. The character system is definitely better than the original, but it's still quite simplistic. Especially regarding skills, pretty much you just max out your 3 chosen skills and forget about the rest.

That was one of my biggest disappointments. Might have had to do with the introduction of a lot of new classes versus the four or so they had from last game (and they didn't want to bother with all those talent trees).

 

[Renevent]

I don't know why anyone would wait...while they are obviously doing some minor patching or whatever the game is extremely polished and completely playable. It's also awesome.

 

[valcik]

If I'm not mistaken, sea has written detailed LoG walkthrough for gamebanshee two years back, so I suspect this delay means nothing else than a lack of free time on his part. ^^

 

[cvv]

If I'm not mistaken, sea has written detailed LoG walkthrough for gamebanshee two years back, so I suspect this delay means nothing else than a lack of free time on his part. ^^

Yeah, I remember checking GB walkthrough for some new content everyday since I got SO stuck in the damn game and there weren't any other walkthroughs with maps. :D

 

[Crooked Bee]

My opinion will be completely heretical to this thread, but I just beat the cemetery and I'm not enjoying the game that much. So far there have been maybe 1 or at most 2 good puzzles (I really did enjoy the one where a certain person only appears at night to draw the bridge, but that's about the only one I would call memorable), ditto for combat/encounters. Spells are boring, as are the samey tactics used in combat. I really enjoyed the underwater exploration, but was disappointed it was so short (so far at least) - just a couple of simplistic underwater areas plus one small underwater dungeon with a secret area. Haven't encountered a single instance of really imaginative/complex dungeon design either.

Playing on Normal with a 2-character party, a Battlemage and a heavy weapons melee Farmer.

It definitely is an improvement over its predecessor, and has neat presentation and a few good design ideas, but I wouldn't call it anything more than good/solid. It also feels too much like a casual dungeon crawler. Good for long flights/train rides, though, I guess.

 

[PhantasmaNL]

I restarted on EASY difficulty



sacrilege, agreed, but while i dont mind being flogged into oblivion by diabolical fucked up puzzles i hate being punished for not pushing a button fast enough

i like the game sofar though

 

[Crooked Bee]

Yeah, I like it too, but as a fun casual distraction rather than a really interestingly designed/complex/involving dungeon crawler.

Also so far I have only encountered one puzzle that required me to be really fast - the throw-rocks-through-3-gates-in-randomized-order-lol one in the cemetery. Otherwise everything has been fairly relaxed and fairly obvious.

Haven't encounterd any "diabolically fucked up" puzzles either, except the one I mentioned which was indeed very good and had me thinking for a while.

 

[cvv]

Yeah, I like it too, but as a fun casual distraction rather than a really interestingly designed/complex/involving dungeon crawler.

Also so far I have only encountered one puzzle that required me to be really fast - the throw-rocks-through-3-gates-in-randomized-order-lol one in the cemetery. Otherwise everything has been fairly relaxed and fairly obvious.

Haven't encounterd any "diabolically fucked up" puzzles either, except the one I mentioned which was indeed very good and had me thinking for a while.

IIRC the first game was a very pleasant dungeon sightseeing stroll up until level 4 or 5 where the more sadistic side of AH started to show. I'd postpone my judgement.

 

[Crooked Bee]

Yeah, I'm willing to revise my judgment once I've done the pyramid. However, I have already done all other areas which is 2/3 of the game I guess?

 

[7hm]

Yeah, I'm willing to revise my judgment once I've done the pyramid. However, I have already done all other areas which is 2/3 of the game I guess?

Yeah you're at a stage where I think you can be comfortable with your assessment.

The puzzles repeat a lot of themes; they rely heavily on obfuscation and pixel hunting.

I know you love stuff like Wizardry... did you like the older real time games like DM or EOB?

 

[Crooked Bee]

I loved Chaos Strikes Back. I think it still remains unrivaled in its dungeon design, challenge, and non-linearity.

Still haven't played EOB.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

The graveyard is easily the most "boring" area of LoG2. I'd guess it's because of the enemies: Anyone who spent any serious time with LoG1 will have grown to loathe skeletons of any kind. It doesn't help that these undead take too long to die and the puzzles become more focused on damage. Screw up here and you get a faceful of monsters, screw up there and you get spikes through your feet, screw up there and fireballs roast your party, etc.

 

[toro]

Just finished the game. Vanilla version (without the latest patch) on Normal difficulty.
The game is very good however towards the end my enjoyment has declined because of retarded puzzles. I don't know but in a couple of instances I found the secrets to be more "straightforward" than the main path. For example, the water shrine entrance puzzle was ...

Additionally there are a couple of things which pissed me off:
- Fire magic damage is insane compared to the rest of magic schools.
- There is no Healing spell in the game (!?)
- Earth magic has like 3 spells. Not enough in my opinion.
- Air elements can be destroyed only by casting Dispell (!?)
- Grenade usage is cumbersome - they basically take the shield position and that's not good.
- Found only one full armor set - Rogue. The rest, I don't know. Found like 3 pieces from each one.
- The best light weapon is like 2 minutes before the last boss. On the other hand, I had like 5~7 good Heavy weapons. And my fighter was doing damage nowhere near what the Barbarian was doing.
- Barren Desert was borderline trolling.

Good stuff:
- ForceField spell was surprisingly useful.
- Killed a Serpent with a teleporter - Quake-style.
- Digging. Mimics. Atmosphere. Level design. Creative puzzles.

So, this is it.

 

[Daemongar]

Just finished the game. Vanilla version (without the latest patch) on Normal difficulty.
The game is very good however towards the end my enjoyment has declined because of retarded puzzles. I don't know but in a couple of instances I found the secrets to be more "straightforward" than the main path. For example, the water shrine entrance puzzle was ...

Additionally there are a couple of things which pissed me off:
- Fire magic damage is insane compared to the rest of magic schools.
- There is no Healing spell in the game (!?)
- Earth magic has like 3 spells. Not enough in my opinion.
- Air elements can be destroyed only by casting Dispell (!?)
- Grenade usage is cumbersome - they basically take the shield position and that's not good.
- Found only one full armor set - Rogue. The rest, I don't know. Found like 3 pieces from each one.
- The best light weapon is like 2 minutes before the last boss. On the other hand, I had like 5~7 good Heavy weapons. And my fighter was doing damage nowhere near what the Barbarian was doing.
- Barren Desert was borderline trolling.

To add... (and trust me, I like the game, but it is starting to frustrate me, playing on normal)
- puzzle, puzzle, puzzle, PUZZLE, PUZZLE, PUUUZZZZLLLLEEE, PUUUZZZZLLLLEEE... ok, enough already. Each level has so, so many. Underwater hidden buttons? Sure, why not. Less an RPG and more a puzzle simulator
- No real difference between hidden items and the way you'd normally open doors. Seems like 10% of doors have chains, 50% are puzzles, 20% require keys you don't have, and the final 30% just don't open.
- Too few enemies, but they all have high hps. Just too much HP bloat.
- Skill system is way too simple - some skills are completely useless until you put 3+ points in them, but points are sooo hard to come by, really works against experimentation. Lots of skills I'd like to try, but I don't want to be screwed at 12th level by wasting 3 or 4 points on something interesting.
- As above, dumb skill tree balance - Example: 5% bonus to armor protection for each point in Armor skill. In a game where your protection is below 40 for 70% of the game, its insanely bad. However, you need to waste points on Armor skill it to get light and heaver armor skills. Meanwhile, each point in Heavy Weapons gives you 20% bonus to damage! Each point in accuracy gives you 10 ... something!
- Fire elementals that just blow you up... Lizardman barely scratched, two of them kill the human almost every time.
- Having to put certain items in your hand to use them, like alchemy, just seemed kinda lame. Let me use it from my inventory.
- Crafting multiple potions at once can't be done without repeatedly opening the same pestle item. Come on.
- Enemies that you can't fight back. Underwater opponents, elementals (note: I'm at the crystal mines and have not found dispel yet), that leprechaun (don't know if you can kill him)
- I think I cast the same spell 90% of the time, and at least once in every fight. The rest are ok, but not nearly as useful. Mix it up.
- All good shields I found require concentration. I'm not wasting points in concentration. I can't afford to.
- The mechanic of holding down an attack for a special attack didn't work for me. You miss other attacks, and special melee attacks can miss.
- The load button and the save menu options are right next to each other and it's easy to load when you want to save. This has happened to me too many times.
- Guns - nice touch, but just doesn't work. Not enough damage and bullets have weight/must be collected.

Good stuff:
- ForceField spell was surprisingly useful.
- Killed a Serpent with a teleporter - Quake-style.
- Digging. Mimics. Atmosphere. Level design. Creative puzzles.

So, this is it.

I'll add
- Very nice outdoor indoor graphics and gameplay. A welcome change
- Great color and never gets boring. Each area feels different and there are lots of areas!
- Alchemy is insanely useful and I'm glad I took it. Not sure how it could be done without an alchemist, though
- Destroyable scenery - love it
- Those blue-eyed heads are very nice touch
- Lots of challenging fights, lots of mixing it up.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Yeah puzzles are nice and all but it's death by 1000 cuts. I don't need a puzzle every time I want to move 50 feet.

 

[toro]

Some remarks:

- Fire elementals that just blow you up... Lizardman barely scratched, two of them kill the human almost every time.

You can actually kill them if you hit them fast enough.

- Crafting multiple potions at once can't be done without repeatedly opening the same pestle item. Come on.

You cannot craft multiple potions at once but I'm sure you don't have to open the pestle item. Just drag and drop the potions from the right side bar and everything is ok.

- The mechanic of holding down an attack for a special attack didn't work for me. You miss other attacks, and special melee attacks can miss.

I used this a lot. Nothing wrong in my opinion. Just time your attacks: Special attack-> Move -> Special attack -> Move ... and so on. You have to move after a special attack.

- Guns - nice touch, but just doesn't work. Not enough damage and bullets have weight/must be collected.

Guns are fucked up alright. But there are bosses in the game which are dropping a high damage cannon.

 

[Metro]

I have not played the game, but in the first Grimrock, the depth of the system largely came from limited available points meaning you had to prioritize very aggressively and were always locked out of most of the options available, rather than any nuance within the skills themselves. A more complicated skill tree system seems like it could run contrary to that or simply be change for the sake of change.

The 'depth' in the first game was pretty bad (and this is coming from someone who loved the game). You just picked two and stacked them.

 

[toro]

- Skill system is way too simple - some skills are completely useless until you put 3+ points in them, but points are sooo hard to come by, really works against experimentation. Lots of skills I'd like to try, but I don't want to be screwed at 12th level by wasting 3 or 4 points on something interesting.
- As above, dumb skill tree balance - Example: 5% bonus to armor protection for each point in Armor skill. In a game where your protection is below 40 for 70% of the game, its insanely bad. However, you need to waste points on Armor skill it to get light and heaver armor skills. Meanwhile, each point in Heavy Weapons gives you 20% bonus to damage! Each point in accuracy gives you 10 ... something!

You are correct about this and I guess they went with this design because different party/combat experience is the only thing that can differentiate multiple playthroughs in such a puzzle heavy-loaded game.

The end-game level is around 15 (it can be higher with +20% more experience perk and +25% more experience necklace) which means that you can barely max 3 skills normally. As you said, experimentation is not possible.

 

[Daemongar]

Before anyone jumps on me, I AM enjoying this game. I also enjoyed the original Grimrock. However, there were some odd choices made in development that I'm not exactly sold on. A hybrid of the Best of LoG and LoG2 would be even better. Game is fun but they still could go a little further. Some mechanic like allowing the rogue to pick locks or something once a level to allow one to bypass some of the more frustrating puzzles would be nice.

 

[Daemongar]

The end-game level is around 15 (it can be higher with +20% more experience perk and +25% more experience necklace) which means that you can barely max 3 skills normally. As you said, experimentation is not possible.

I actually found this necklace on my own and like the xp bonus combination, but even 45% bonus xps doesn't balance out vs. 50% resistance to all elements when it only makes a one level difference.

 

[cvv]

I have not played the game, but in the first Grimrock, the depth of the system largely came from limited available points meaning you had to prioritize very aggressively and were always locked out of most of the options available, rather than any nuance within the skills themselves. A more complicated skill tree system seems like it could run contrary to that or simply be change for the sake of change.

The 'depth' in the first game was pretty bad (and this is coming from someone who loved the game). You just picked two and stacked them.

Yeah this was irritating. IIRC there were a couple of skills you never maxed in any build because you simply needed the points elsewhere (like athletics or staff defense). It would be fine if there was some kind of New Game+ option but alas. It's p. bad they haven't fixed in the sequel.