Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Legend of Grimrock 2 Party Compositions

Dyskolos

Cipher
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Messages
571
Location
Eumeswil
I can't remember how (of if it was even an option) it worked in Grimrock 1, but if I want a duel wielding rogue with swords instead of daggers should I pump STR over DEX and just take the gimping on the first few levels? I'll have him in the back row so losing evasion isn't an issue for the most part.

Anyone playing with custom portraits? I've just raided our avatar collection for all the old Bard's Tale and Forgotten Realms portraits. My human farmer is this guy
Bard_1_26_Amiga.png
 

Iluvcheezcake

Prophet
Joined
Aug 27, 2014
Messages
1,651
Location
Le Balkans
Ooooo nice nice ty mr Cyberarmy :) btw should i keep playing or wait for the proper patch? Is the health/energy bugged (that is, vitality and willpower)?
 

Pope Amole II

Nerd Commando Game Studios
Developer
Joined
Mar 1, 2012
Messages
2,052
Can't stop rerolling, lol. Well, at least I have a solid reason to do so. So, this time it is:

Nyx Assassin - Insectoid Battlemage, vitality & willpower, concentration & air, chitin armor & natural armor (yeah, pretty much the staple - this is one of the strongest builds in the game)

Drive B - Insectoid Barbarian, strength & dexterity, light weapons & critical, chitin armor & quick (decided to try another brand of a tank - this one is not as defensive, obviously, but what he lacks in protection he tries to compensate with the sheer mass of barbarian's 10 hp per level; he's also a good damage dealer - I dunno about later weapons, but he's really good with the starting rapier)

Plissken - Lizardman Wizard, vitality & willpower, concentration & fire, endure elements & fast metabolism (this build is also incredibly strong; the magical plan, btw, is to rush air 5 at Nyx and fire 5 at Plissken, after that Assassin will delve into water and Snake into air).

Ninjara - ratling alchemist, dexterity & vitality, alchemy & missile weapons, mutation & aggressive (yeah, fuck firearms - it can be argued that they get good in the late game, but that's fucking futile as they are completely useless through more than half of the game; I rushed missile weapons 4 at her and now it's alchemy time).
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,955
Location
Russia
At the endgame I just wanted party of 4 lizardmen fighters with Heavy Weapons. Man, those resists would have been godly for last parts of game.
My Knight had same hp as Barbarian, take or leave a few items (extra hp per level, cool - now have this +50 hp amulet and a full set of pieces each +15 hp, and so on). Protection can be pumped to 100 with right items for any class, and it's enough.

It's actually a problem of char building in G2. Should look at big picture. Neither +5 or +15 extra protection do much at endgame, or +2 willpower. But faster charged attacks or +50% resistances probably can save your ass, as well as right choice of weapons. For endgame probably 80% starting perks and character building choices will only make your experience vary slightly.

Resistances are more of a problem and that's why Battlemages are so neat.
Protection&Resistances are kings of tanking, while HP, eh, it just grows by itself.
Alchemy is cool. Probably worth maxing right at the beginning and stocking herbs, not using them before it.
Maybe worth it for carrying an Alchemist around, as for guns, are cannon balls finite or not? Really wondering.

A Strength-based Light Weapons dual-wielding build could probably work, but only for Rogue. Say, Agressive + 2 +STR swords + critical. And if you are afraid of dying, take 2 Accuracy and let someone else tank. Like battlemage, lol.

Best melee class for not dual-wielding - probably Fighter. Special attacks are everything, especially with Heavies since those can't be dual-wielded.

Magic, hmm. Big helper in the first half of the game, but in second I only wanted freezing arrow. Fire is alright, but another melee char can do as well or even better than fire mage. So not sure about this one. Perhaps a staff-wielding Alchemist? He will be able to cast spells right?
 
Last edited:

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,158
I can't remember how (of if it was even an option) it worked in Grimrock 1, but if I want a duel wielding rogue with swords instead of daggers should I pump STR over DEX and just take the gimping on the first few levels? I'll have him in the back row so losing evasion isn't an issue for the most part.

Anyone playing with custom portraits? I've just raided our avatar collection for all the old Bard's Tale and Forgotten Realms portraits. My human farmer is this guy
Bard_1_26_Amiga.png
Its Str over dex , but that cant hurt to have high dex as secondary stats if you keep him int he back row and dont need vitality.
Hard difficulty?

No, I was running away from hard because my first group got killed there, was running fighter/knight/mage/alchemist.

My mentioned party is on normal now and it is a little bit too easy.
I think this group will work fairly well on hard with a couple of changes. But the rogue will keep her place, she is just devastating. The alchemist has a place, too. The potions are live savers.
Still, do not know what else I will take. Mage? Maybe a fighter for the front row?

Do crits ignore armor? My rogue sometimes hits for nothing, the crits on the other hand kill stuff.

I tried rogue, dual-wielding daggers, replaced him with battle mage. Damage is meh, cant take hits at all.

Rogue is good as archer though due +1% crit per lvl.

I use the rogue in back row with 2 accuracy you can melee and dualwielding light weapons, its comparable to mage dps and also the only character really using weapons, hopefully some very good ones will be found later.
 

Greatness

Cipher
Joined
Mar 17, 2007
Messages
288
So Mages damage eventually falls off and casting spells becomes a bit cumbersome, here's a solution I found - turn your mage into fucking Ursa Warrior.

Just raise your energy/willpower as high as you can, skill up 3 points in light weapons, equip any two crappy daggers, then drink the bear transformation potion. Suddenly your strength shoots up to insane numbers (easily can reach 100+ with items/rage/etc) and your trashcan weapons transform into super low cooldown bearclaws that can potentially hit for 100+ each. The potion lasts until you run out of mana, and since we're stacking mana pool that's a long time, with an alchemist or two you could probably keep it up indefinitely. Put even your endgame weapon str stacking barbarian to shame.
 
Last edited:

Whisper

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
4,357
At the endgame I just wanted party of 4 lizardmen fighters with Heavy Weapons. Man, those resists would have been godly for last parts of game.
My Knight had same hp as Barbarian, take or leave a few items (extra hp per level, cool - now have this +50 hp amulet and a full set of pieces each +15 hp, and so on). Protection can be pumped to 100 with right items for any class, and it's enough.

It's actually a problem of char building in G2. Should look at big picture. Neither +5 or +15 extra protection do much at endgame, or +2 willpower. But faster charged attacks or +50% resistances probably can save your ass, as well as right choice of weapons. For endgame probably 80% starting perks and character building choices will only make your experience vary slightly.

Resistances are more of a problem and that's why Battlemages are so neat.
Protection&Resistances are kings of tanking, while HP, eh, it just grows by itself.
Alchemy is cool. Probably worth maxing right at the beginning and stocking herbs, not using them before it.
Maybe worth it for carrying an Alchemist around, as for guns, are cannon balls finite or not? Really wondering.

A Strength-based Light Weapons dual-wielding build could probably work, but only for Rogue. Say, Agressive + 2 +STR swords + critical. And if you are afraid of dying, take 2 Accuracy and let someone else tank. Like battlemage, lol.

Best melee class for not dual-wielding - probably Fighter. Special attacks are everything, especially with Heavies since those can't be dual-wielded.

Magic, hmm. Big helper in the first half of the game, but in second I only wanted freezing arrow. Fire is alright, but another melee char can do as well or even better than fire mage. So not sure about this one. Perhaps a staff-wielding Alchemist? He will be able to cast spells right?

Hint: freezing arrow works maybe 30% of time.
BIGGER HINT: Mages can give 50% resist shields for grp for each element.
Another hint: Fire mage advantage over "another melee char" is that fire mage have range attacks (doh).
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,955
Location
Russia
R u Volourn brother or someting?

- you can recast it, duh.
- you can have those resists from somewhere else all the time instead of fucking around with runes in prolongued fights, where you get bombarded by multiple elements, and your characters would do something useful instead, like kicking shit out of boss.
- the most cost efficient fire spell is the first one, and it's melee. it can be cast in 1 click, does not much less damage than arrow, and it does not miss enemies like rat swarms or mosquito swarms in their attack animations.

I'd say for party of 4 power-built melees, you probably won't need ranged attacks at all.
 

Whisper

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
4,357
R u Volourn brother or someting?

- you can recast it, duh.
- you can have those resists from somewhere else all the time instead of fucking around with runes in prolongued fights, where you get bombarded by multiple elements, and your characters would do something useful instead, like kicking shit out of boss.
- the most cost efficient fire spell is the first one, and it's melee. it can be cast in 1 click, does not much less damage than arrow, and it does not miss enemies like rat swarms or mosquito swarms in their attack animations.

I'd say for party of 4 power-built melees, you probably won't need ranged attacks at all.

forgot to put to ignore
 

Whisper

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
4,357
Can't stop rerolling, lol. Well, at least I have a solid reason to do so. So, this time it is:

Nyx Assassin - Insectoid Battlemage, vitality & willpower, concentration & air, chitin armor & natural armor (yeah, pretty much the staple - this is one of the strongest builds in the game)

Drive B - Insectoid Barbarian, strength & dexterity, light weapons & critical, chitin armor & quick (decided to try another brand of a tank - this one is not as defensive, obviously, but what he lacks in protection he tries to compensate with the sheer mass of barbarian's 10 hp per level; he's also a good damage dealer - I dunno about later weapons, but he's really good with the starting rapier)

Plissken - Lizardman Wizard, vitality & willpower, concentration & fire, endure elements & fast metabolism (this build is also incredibly strong; the magical plan, btw, is to rush air 5 at Nyx and fire 5 at Plissken, after that Assassin will delve into water and Snake into air).

Ninjara - ratling alchemist, dexterity & vitality, alchemy & missile weapons, mutation & aggressive (yeah, fuck firearms - it can be argued that they get good in the late game, but that's fucking futile as they are completely useless through more than half of the game; I rushed missile weapons 4 at her and now it's alchemy time).


What is best party setup you found?

1. I tested Figher, charging weapon takes time, enough to launch to spell or click several attacks - and when you charge you cant do anything else (unless i am missing something).
2. Protection 100: crab hit my warmage for 45 dmg, ok. Zombie kills in like 6-7 seconds. Not enough for reliable tanking.
I think it is not possible to make high defensive chars who also have some dps. So 2 traits taken for 15 prot are just good for start of game, but useless in middle already.
3. Firearms, i am missing something? Crookhorn bow u get from start is doing around 50 dmg per hit and arrows are recoverable and also bow dont get jammed.
Why would i go firearms instead of missile weapons? Also u need firearms at 5, i heard that having alchemist and firearms at 4 means u still get around 20% times weapon jammed.


I am thinking about:

1. Minotaur barb dual-wielding sword fighter STR, Vit.
2. Rogue ratling Dex dual-wielding daggers.
3. Alchemist Dex bow-user
4. Human wizard, extra skill from start
 

Pope Amole II

Nerd Commando Game Studios
Developer
Joined
Mar 1, 2012
Messages
2,052
1. Fighters make great missile weapons users. And charging doesn't take that much time and you can do it while you are maneuvering - it's good for a party that wants to be as mobile as possible.
2. That's as good as it gets. Having a tanky frontline doesn't always means you want to be clinched in battle 100% - sometimes it's just about them not dying from the "glancing" blows (it's very hard to dodge perfectly in this game). Or not getting screwed up by the sudden ambush (which are quite frequent in this game). Not to mention that battlemages don't really need any other kind of traits. Maybe if they're lizardmen for the resists & fast regen, maybe those battlemages are better in the long run. But they'll still suffer in the early game and, given that this game stays consistently hard, I'm not sure why difficulties in the early game are preferable to the difficulties in the late.
3. Firearms are crap.

As for the best party setup - I still need to test a couple of things.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,955
Location
Russia
Does Throwing improve damage from bombs? I'm looking for a weapon for my Farmer and it seems a choice between that and Missile. I am thinking giving him Alchemy since it doesn't require stats, and maybe a Minotaur since he will eat all the time and that STR bonus could be used with Sling or other throwing weapons. The third skill makes me think Athletics since Farmer's hp is awful and using bombs does not require Energy.
 
Last edited:

Greatness

Cipher
Joined
Mar 17, 2007
Messages
288
I did a bunch of testing with endgame gear/levels.

Highest DPS that I found in order:

1. Bear Form
This one is kinda of cheesy, pick either wizard or alchemist. Wizard for higher energy pool, alchemist for more mana potions. Play as a caster early on then when you get a decent mana pool built up from levels/concentration/gear and magic begins to fall off, start using bear form. You only need 3 points in light weapons to dual-wield the bear claws, don't bother adding any more points there, put the rest into critical. The insane strength buff and dual 2.5 speed weapons make this thing do tons of damage. The only problem is that it's somewhat potion intensive. I found that energy regeneration doesn't work while transformed, so go for just +energy gear. Late game each transformation will last 3-4 minutes per potions, which you can then extend indefinitely by drinking energy pots. This build is probably not a good idea for your first run of the game though.

2. Rogue/Throwing
Very high damage due to the high crit chance and 2 attacks at a time. Being ranged is a nice bonus too, sadly the weapon selection is kinda boring, throwing axes are best.

3. Barbarian/Light Weapons (STR)
In the end game barbarians beat out rogues in DPS, but only by a small amount and only if you aren't backstabbing. Still might be better to use a rogue here since it'll be stronger for a decent portion of the game until you get high levels/skulls for the STR.

4. Fighter/Heavy Weapons
The slower speed means heavy weapons will usually fall behind 2x light weapons, but due to their very high base damage using special abilities is quite strong. Fighters can use them 25% faster and 25% more often so they win out over the barbarian damage bonus here. Using special abilities is very mana intensive though, especially late game when they can cost 80 mana per use, your fighter likely won't get very many uses per fight unless you burn through a ton of mana potions.

Dex weapons in general can't compete with their STR counterparts. You can only have one character get the full benefit from HeadHunter/STR Potions though, so having at least one DEX character is probably a good idea too, so they can fully benefit from dex gear/potions.
 
Last edited:

Whisper

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
4,357
Problem with dual-wielding is that it takes 2x times longer to do full attack then with 2-hander user.
This means u have less time to hit other abilities too.
I dont know how other play, but i have time to reliable use off 2 abilities max when dancing with enemy. So i better use off 1 hit from 2 hander and magic spell then hit 2 uses from light weapon dual-wielder rogue.
Also, tried again with rogue in frotn - he cant reliably stay at front. All characters die fast but at least barb and warmage with shield live usually long enough to defend from ambush.
You have to put rogue at back, this means who go to front? Barb and Warmage. So u get rogue in backrow and - alchemist. This means u go without wizard.

Mino barb, Warmage insectoid, Alchemist ratling (spec in Fire-Air magic) and rogue with missile weapons.
Why rogue not dual-wielding? One missile user helps a lot in some situations also read above about not having time to use both weapons at once for rogue - and - other skills from other characters.
 

Whisper

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
4,357
1. Fighters make great missile weapons users. And charging doesn't take that much time and you can do it while you are maneuvering - it's good for a party that wants to be as mobile as possible.

I would prefer rogue-ratling for it with mutation skill. +1% crit per lvl is a lot.
Also if you are charging, you dont have time to click-prepare spells for mages (which usually i do when enemy moves into position to attack me when i am kiting). You are basicly locked into charging. And i can prepare spell faster then it takes time to charge.
 

Greatness

Cipher
Joined
Mar 17, 2007
Messages
288
Just found out other races get +stats from food as well:
Ratling = Cheese
Insectoid = Spiked Fruit
Lizardmen = Turtle Eggs

Also XP scaling is a bit weird. XP needed to level up goes:
0k,1k,2k,3k,4k,5k,6k,7k,8k,9k,10k,20k,25k,50k,50k,50k,50k,100k,100k,100k,500k,1000k,1000k

Problem with dual-wielding is that it takes 2x times longer to do full attack then with 2-hander user.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Are you saying you use both special abilities from both the weapons you're dual-wielding?

I don't think it's usually worth it to use special abilities unless you're using a slow 2H weapon. For light weapons/dual-wielding you could instead attack like 6 times in the time it would take you to charge up one weapon, release it, then charge up another and release it.

The problem with weapon special abilities is that they basically disable everyone else in your group. While you're charging up your attack you can't do anything at all with everyone else in your party. Not to mention they use a lot of energy and your weapon-based characters usually don't have very much to work with. At most I would use one single fighter with a 2H weapon for special abilities. Just attack with the other 3 characters first then charge your fighters special ability while everyone else is waiting on their cooldown.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,955
Location
Russia
Heh on Hard + all difficulty options checked my STR minotaur dart throwing Farmer proves to be best member of the group. Throw everything at them, kite and collect darts, repeat. And he levels up so quickly, wow. Got to level 3 while others were at level 1.
Alchemist with sling is alright too.
Not sure how would people play Ironman without meta knowledge. It's tiresome to plan gaming sessions from one save crystal to another, and I do know where they are.
 

Whisper

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
4,357
I mean that when i am kiting/dancing with enemy i have usually time to hit 2 buttons before i need to move.
I.e. most enemies need 1-1.5 second to turn, you can safely press 2 buttons.
I prefer to hit 2-hander attack button and release spell then to click two daggers from 1 character at same time.
 

Whisper

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
4,357
Also pure wizard not needed, you can cover magic with warmage who also tanks and alchemist (whom u want in in grp). You can give bow and arrows to alchemist but he lacks rogue crit chance.
 

Greatness

Cipher
Joined
Mar 17, 2007
Messages
288
I mean that when i am kiting/dancing with enemy i have usually time to hit 2 buttons before i need to move.
I.e. most enemies need 1-1.5 second to turn, you can safely press 2 buttons.
I prefer to hit 2-hander attack button and release spell then to click two daggers from 1 character at same time.

The problem with this is the 2-hander special attack will use up all of your energy very quickly. When dual-wielding clicking two attack icons right beside each other shouldn't be that hard, if you can click one then the other is only a few milliseconds away. I just bound my attacks to the keyboard though, fuck dealing with the clunky mouse controls.
 

Whisper

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
4,357
I mean that when i am kiting/dancing with enemy i have usually time to hit 2 buttons before i need to move.
I.e. most enemies need 1-1.5 second to turn, you can safely press 2 buttons.
I prefer to hit 2-hander attack button and release spell then to click two daggers from 1 character at same time.

The problem with this is the 2-hander special attack will use up all of your energy very quickly. When dual-wielding clicking two attack icons right beside each other shouldn't be that hard, if you can click one then the other is only a few milliseconds away. I just bound my attacks to the keyboard though, fuck dealing with the clunky mouse controls.

I dont use special attack, usually use time to prepare spells.

And yes u have time to do 2 clicks, better to click 2hander and spell then dual-weapons of 1 character.
 

Greatness

Cipher
Joined
Mar 17, 2007
Messages
288
The difference in the time it takes to click a 2Hander and the time it takes to click two 1Handers is almost non-existent so long as you're halfway competent with using a mouse...
 

Canus

Savant
Joined
Jan 26, 2011
Messages
647
I'm about 10 hours, and about 5 restarts into the game now.
At the minute I'm rocking:

Front:
Minotaur Fighter with heavy weapons.
Ratling Rogue with light weapons.

Back:
Insectoid Wizrd with fire and air.
Lizardman Barbarian with throwing weapons.

Seem to be fairly cutting through stuff so far.
 

Greatness

Cipher
Joined
Mar 17, 2007
Messages
288
Here's my new party, cuz theory crafting is fun:

Front:
Insectoid Battle Mage - Chitin Armor/Natural Armor - HeavyWeapons/Armor

Actually doing a melee Battle Mage this time. Max out heavy weapons so he can wield a 2hander and a staff at the same time. The +10 protection from the staff/class bonus is better than any shield for most of the game and the higher energy will let me use the 2handers special attacks more often than even a fighter could. I won't bother casting much spells, only the amazing shield spell, since that combined total of +50 free armor is nothing to sneeze at.

Minotuar Barbarian - Aggressive/Head Hunter - LightWeapons(STR)/Armor

For my other tank it's the typical dual-wielding barbarian. Since the Battle Mage has insanely high innate armor the Barbarian will get to wear most of the better drops. The superior gear and massive healthpool should help him reach similar survivability as the other frontliner. The high STR bonuses from the barb class and headhunter trait make dual-wielding strength-based light weapons the 2nd highest DPS of all weapon types.

Back:
Ratling Rogue - Aggressive/Mutation - LightWeapons(DEX)/Alchemy

I would put a throwing weapon character here, but the way retrieving throwing ammo works in this game has everything you pick up put into the left slot, which is terribly annoying since throwing needs both slots filled due to it's double attack. There's also the problem of having too many characters reliant on strength gear, so instead this will be the DEX character. Due to there being a lot of really good dex gear, like the rogue set/hunter's cloak, DEX based dual-wielders can do some really respectable damage, they just need to be attacking from the back row.

Insectoid Alchemist - Quick/Aura - Fire Spells/Bear Form

Caster's are really strong and useful for most of the early-mid game, but later on damage-wise they fall quite far behind the physical classes. This build gets the best of both worlds. Spend early game as basically a wizard, stacking up on ingredients for later, then once you tire of casting spells switch into near-permanent bear form. With full +energy gear and all the ingredients you stockpiled you can spend pretty much the rest of the game as a overpowered bear who does more damage than anyone else in the group. Just make sure you leveled 3 points into light weapons so your bear claws can attack twice.
 
Last edited:

Decado

Old time handsome face wrecker
Patron
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
2,544
Location
San Diego
Codex 2014
Does anybody know (or is there a list) of all of the potions, and what their ingredients are?
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom