Incline Larian's Dragon Commander - Released

[Heresiarch]

What's the KKK on this?

Only 4 stars in GOG.

Typical Larian game - tons of fantastic writings, lots of details, awesome music, crazy usage of C&C. But also just like Other Larian games, the combat (here it's the RTS part) might turn people off, just like Divine Divinity's weaker-than-Diablo hack and slash, and Divinity 2's action game like combat. But IMO the RTS part of DC is nicely done, being short, challenging and have lots of innovations.

 

[Vicar]

What's the KKK on this?

Only 4 stars in GOG.

An ambitious game with all that it entails. Still definitely worth getting and Larian are worth supporting.

 

[MicoSelva]

What's the KKK on this?

Only 4 stars in GOG.

Worth at least one playthrough.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Has anyone yet modded or started modding something that removes the RTS aspect and just has you and the dragon handle the combat?

 

[pakoito]

Has anyone yet modded or started modding something that removes the RTS aspect and just has you and the dragon handle the combat?

Larian modded it a while ago. Your campaign settings is fully customisable to the point where you can set that no units can be produced.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Has anyone yet modded or started modding something that removes the RTS aspect and just has you and the dragon handle the combat?

Larian modded it a while ago. Your campaign settings is fully customisable to the point where you can set that no units can be produced.

Well, then I'll have to go and check this out.

 

[Gord]

Has anyone yet modded or started modding something that removes the RTS aspect and just has you and the dragon handle the combat?

Larian modded it a while ago. Your campaign settings is fully customisable to the point where you can set that no units can be produced.

Well, then I'll have to go and check this out.

So far it's only custom campaign though, I think, where you can change the rules...

 

[Stabbey]

Larian modded it a while ago. Your campaign settings is fully customisable to the point where you can set that no units can be produced.

Technically, I don't think that you can customize it so that NO units can be produced ever, but you can make them so costly that the match should be over before the first new unit comes off the line. For minimum unit construction in RTS mode, set the following:


Recruit Cost Multiplier: 3
Starting Recruits: 0
Recruit Rate Quantity: 1

With such a small recruit income, summoning the Dragon could take a long time, so optionally

Dragon Spawn Cost: 0
And adjust the length of the Dragon Timer and Dragon Respawn Timer to your liking (upwards is my suggestion to try and keep a token nod to balance).

These changes will have you get 1 Recruit every 5 seconds from each Recruitment Center.
A single Trooper will cost 9 Recruits to build, so it will take you 45 seconds to build a single trooper - and that is not counting the fact that you need to build a Battle Forge to make a Trooper, which is another 45 recruits (3 minutes and 45 seconds).
Freshly-built Recruitment Centers will cost you 60 recruits (5 minutes), although all 4-player maps will have a free second Recruitment center you can capture. With these settings, the starting units are all-important, but the Dragon will be a lot more powerful - maybe to the point where you want to disallow it from spawning entirely.


Personally, I like to simply set the following:

Recruit Cost Multiplier: 2
Starting Recruits: 70
Dragon Spawn Cost: 40

And that does a good enough job of reducing the numbers of units. Those starting Recruits give you just enough to build a Battle Forge (30) and Recruitment Center (40).

 

[Havoc]

ForkTong

If anyone interested, SivHD, a League of Legends player personality (streamer and youtuber) played Dragon Commander -> http://www.twitch.tv/sivhd/b/470440350 (Of course, it's a stream, so it's not all Dragon Commander).

 

[Infinitron]

 

[DraQ]

Larian modded it a while ago. Your campaign settings is fully customisable to the point where you can set that no units can be produced.

Technically, I don't think that you can customize it so that NO units can be produced ever, but you can make them so costly that the match should be over before the first new unit comes off the line. For minimum unit construction in RTS mode, set the following:


Recruit Cost Multiplier: 3
Starting Recruits: 0
Recruit Rate Quantity: 1

With such a small recruit income, summoning the Dragon could take a long time, so optionally

Dragon Spawn Cost: 0
And adjust the length of the Dragon Timer and Dragon Respawn Timer to your liking (upwards is my suggestion to try and keep a token nod to balance).

These changes will have you get 1 Recruit every 5 seconds from each Recruitment Center.
A single Trooper will cost 9 Recruits to build, so it will take you 45 seconds to build a single trooper - and that is not counting the fact that you need to build a Battle Forge to make a Trooper, which is another 45 recruits (3 minutes and 45 seconds).
Freshly-built Recruitment Centers will cost you 60 recruits (5 minutes), although all 4-player maps will have a free second Recruitment center you can capture. With these settings, the starting units are all-important, but the Dragon will be a lot more powerful - maybe to the point where you want to disallow it from spawning entirely.


Personally, I like to simply set the following:

Recruit Cost Multiplier: 2
Starting Recruits: 70
Dragon Spawn Cost: 40

And that does a good enough job of reducing the numbers of units. Those starting Recruits give you just enough to build a Battle Forge (30) and Recruitment Center (40).

Is there any way to adjust the story campaign like that?

 

[pakoito]

Larian modded it a while ago. Your campaign settings is fully customisable to the point where you can set that no units can be produced.

Technically, I don't think that you can customize it so that NO units can be produced ever, but you can make them so costly that the match should be over before the first new unit comes off the line. For minimum unit construction in RTS mode, set the following:


Recruit Cost Multiplier: 3
Starting Recruits: 0
Recruit Rate Quantity: 1

With such a small recruit income, summoning the Dragon could take a long time, so optionally

Dragon Spawn Cost: 0
And adjust the length of the Dragon Timer and Dragon Respawn Timer to your liking (upwards is my suggestion to try and keep a token nod to balance).

These changes will have you get 1 Recruit every 5 seconds from each Recruitment Center.
A single Trooper will cost 9 Recruits to build, so it will take you 45 seconds to build a single trooper - and that is not counting the fact that you need to build a Battle Forge to make a Trooper, which is another 45 recruits (3 minutes and 45 seconds).
Freshly-built Recruitment Centers will cost you 60 recruits (5 minutes), although all 4-player maps will have a free second Recruitment center you can capture. With these settings, the starting units are all-important, but the Dragon will be a lot more powerful - maybe to the point where you want to disallow it from spawning entirely.


Personally, I like to simply set the following:

Recruit Cost Multiplier: 2
Starting Recruits: 70
Dragon Spawn Cost: 40

And that does a good enough job of reducing the numbers of units. Those starting Recruits give you just enough to build a Battle Forge (30) and Recruitment Center (40).

Is there any way to adjust the story campaign like that?

Have you checked the Larian forums? If so, come back with a response.

 

[SniperHF]

Is there any way to adjust the story campaign like that?

Have you checked the Larian forums? If so, come back with a response.

Can't be done.

 

[DraQ]

Is there any way to adjust the story campaign like that?

Have you checked the Larian forums? If so, come back with a response.

Can't be done.

Well, shit.

I thought I might be able to unfuck some of the most questionable things in DC.

 

[MicoSelva]

http://www.pcgamer.com/how-divinity-original-sin-almost-bankrupted-larian-studios/

Divinity II's premature release left Larian in debt, so the studio decided to go all-in on its next project. To keep the entire team of 30 or so developers together, they started two projects: the RPG that would become Original Sin, and strategy game Dragon Commander. Interestingly, Dragon Commander was meant to be the bigger project, while Original Sin was a smaller RPG that would be released first.

But Larian fell in love with the RPG, and decided not to release it until it was completely finished. In Vincke’s words, Larian “murdered” Dragon Commander—releasing it before it was really done—to focus on Original Sin and pull in some badly needed funds.

Thanks for warning us before we bought Dragon Commander, Larian...

 

[SniperHF]

http://www.pcgamer.com/how-divinity-original-sin-almost-bankrupted-larian-studios/

Thanks for warning us before we bought Dragon Commander, Larian...

If wonder if it would have played out differently had Larian not completely redesigned DC's combat. Particularly if they had went the more conventional RTS route from the beginning. Instead of switching from the aerial steampunk combat RTS to a poor mans Supcom 2 clone. Really the fatal flaw of DC is the board game portion anyway. That was the part that could have made it truly standout. But had they not spent the time developing the initial combat system perhaps those resources would have been better allocated for the strategy map portion. And thus not forced them to pull resources from DOS.

 

[MicoSelva]

I think the idea was flawed from the start. They wanted to make a game that would develop the dragon flying portion from Div2, and they decided to go for a board game / RTS hybrid, which is not exactly a natural fit.

Maybe it would have been better as a mission-based game with some light RTS elements. Or maybe a smaller, linear action-RPG where you switch between ground combat and dragon flying - like in Drakan.

 

[Gord]

According to some earlier Vincke interview the initial combat in DC didn't work particularly well, iirc, so they ditched it and started that part from scratch.

My personal biggest flaw of DC was that they didn't manage to connect the board-game part well enough with the RTS part. RTS was basically a game of its own, even the troops available to you were largely independent from your board-game troops. I think that it would already have helped a lot had they greatly reduced the possibility to produce reinforcements during RTS, putting a stronger emphasis on the units you brought with you from the strategic map.
At least it's possible to adjust the mechanics towards that goal in some game modes, but it's not available for the campaign so far (and probably never will be, contrary to their earlier statements they seem to have abandoned DC).

That aside, DC was also a big hodgepodge of different mechanics and ideas.
It worked ok for the most part, but ultimately I think Larian never really managed to pull it really together.

 

[SniperHF]

I think the idea was flawed from the start. They wanted to make a game that would develop the dragon flying portion from Div2, and they decided to go for a board game / RTS hybrid, which is not exactly a natural fit.

Maybe it would have been better as a mission-based game with some light RTS elements. Or maybe a smaller, linear action-RPG where you switch between ground combat and dragon flying - like in Drakan.

How about a new Giant's: Citizen Kabuto with Dragons?

I enjoyed most of my time with Dragon Commander and think it has unrealized potential. I think the dragon combat in an RTS worked pretty well and was very intense when the AI put up a challenge (unfortunately rare). Or especially in PvP. The lack of distinct races and more unique units was another problem though. There was not enough variety in RTS battles.

According to some earlier Vincke interview the initial combat in DC didn't work particularly well, iirc, so they ditched it and started that part from scratch.
.

It was on his blog. That's what I was referring to with the aerial combat. Some of the early screens were definitely not inspiring so I can see why they changed it.

 

[Jaedar]

I liked dragon commander.

But it is not great. Needed more than one race for the rts portions. I also think something closer to sacrifice where you were always in dragon form would have worked better.

 

[Bumvelcrow]

I never got into Dragon Commander - it just never hooked me at all. I did get it for free, though, for backing D:OS. It served it's purpose by making Original Sin a reality and so I'll give Sven and chums a pass where lesser mortals would have incurred my wrath, mild and fickle as it is.

 

[DraQ]

In Vincke’s words, Larian “murdered” Dragon Commander—releasing it before it was really done—to focus on Original Sin and pull in some badly needed funds.

Thanks for warning us before we bought Dragon Commander, Larian...

I think the idea was flawed from the start. They wanted to make a game that would develop the dragon flying portion from Div2, and they decided to go for a board game / RTS hybrid, which is not exactly a natural fit.

Can't really agree - the part that worked really awfully in DC was that individual parts were so poorly tied together - for example neither strategy cards (genocide) nor research (chemical weapons anyone?) had any impact on political layer, but the worst culprit was the RTS layer:

• Generic maps were repetitive and didn't reflect geography of the area.
• Typical RTS gameplay in the form of "build blob->faceroll" was not only tedious but dissociated strategic and tactical layers (you had your strategic layer units as starting units, but you could build much more that didn't carry over back into strategic layer)
• Trying to exploit initial advantage resulting from good strategic play effectively bared you from using dragon form

Still I can see how DC could be fixed:

• No separate dragon and RTS modes - instead spawn as dragon right away and have a key toggling between dragon combat and RTS controls with POV tied to dragon (also dragon must survive)
• Infantry. Any game where there are giant war machines and/or dragons duking it out needs tiny little people to be splattered to show the titanic scale of the conflict
  
• No unit production apart from infantry, infantry production very slow.
• Capture existing buildings instead of building sites (mostly cosmetic), and use them as basic defensive infrastructure, capturing uses up infantry, which can be reclaimed by releasing the site.
• Different types of buildings have different durability and DT, different types of infantry use different weapons, basic defensive use consists of infantry firing out of the building.
• Capturing enemy buildings involves infantry combat inside, only anti-infantry infantry squads count when already inside.
• Field hospitals reclaim part of the loses as recruits.
  
• Instead of unit production facilities you build turn buildings (cosmetic) into ammo/supply shops and ammo/supply stockpiles (using up recruits the usual way) - units have ammo bars that are automatically replenished from the nearest friendly stockpile the unit has clear and unattacked path to (abstracted logistics for ground units), which are continuously replenished by ammo shops that have path to stockpile. Ammo stockpiles blow up when destroyed causing severe AOE, some active special abilities require their own stockpiles (nukes, chemical weapons).
• Aerial units need to return to base to replenish, so they aren't very useful for holding ground, naval units can also be resupplied by transports.
• Tall structures convertible to aerial docks, wizard towers (structures with a variety of long range special abilities, but little else), observation posts (basically zeppelins in building form), maybe sniper towers.
  
• Maps correspond roughly to areas on strategic map, units can retreat through edges controlled by their owner or ally (or into unclaimed lands).
  
• Maybe let destroyed land based warmachines stay as destructible wreckage, and let them be captured and restored by repair units (using repair supplies and recruits).
• Bigger maps centered around cities and other strategic locations (buildings to capture).
• "For the Empire!" ability only for all naval units (against naval units, tremendous damage, unit can survive), and fighters (against everything, attacker is always destroyed).
• Maybe have engineers able to repair buildings and instantly destroy structures not controlled by enemy. Also bridges.

There, you'd have RTS mode fully integrated with both strategy and dragon modes, less repetitive and free of the burden of having to frantically amass standard RTS blob, yet still having use for infrastructure.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

I'd say just going full Dynasty Warriors approach with the dragon would be more enjoyable. I mean, you got a fucking dragon in the game, use it for all it's got.


This of course would mean infantry would need to be present in huge quantities so you can step on all of them by accident.

 

[Kraszu]

The RTS part sucks, and it seem off it didn't made me feel like a dragon. I would remade it completely, and made it without direct control of units. I think that going full action would be a better option for a dragon (I have some ideas for rts with indirect control but it get very complex when i think about how it could work). Full action with quest like goals, and some sort of strategic map, depending on scenario you could help your side in multiple ways, you could for example take mine quest, and call for backup when you want to go there, after you take over the mine ai could create better units, or you could destroy some defences on clifs that didn't allow army to go etc. each map would have multiple quests like that, and the order of doing them would matter. Your strategic ai would also have an opponent that you have to worry about. Controls would be simple call for back up, and order retreat. Maybe also order ballistics unit to fire at a specific target, all controled when in dragon form, you wouldn't leave it.

This would also make it easy to connect it with diplomatic part, and allow for re playability of rts part (since you could be with either side).