Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Touhou Labyrinth of Touhou: Hardcore PC dungeon-crawler - See OP for links etc.

Discussion in 'jRPG Weeaboo Discussion' started by Crooked Bee, Jun 16, 2011.

  1. Jaesungender: ⚧ Fabulous Moderator Patron

    Jaesun
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    Oh! So only cRPG's with GOOD mechanics can stay in RPG discussions?

    Fuck I am going to be busy for WEEKS moving threads...
     
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  2. 1eyedkinggender: ⚧ Erudite

    1eyedking
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    Really Jaesun, do you think that jRPGs have the same mechanics & design as western RPGs? You know there's a world of difference (or at least there used to be) between both.

    Why don't you just create a sub-forum labeled jRPG and be done with it? If you think that endorsing jRPG discussions is worth it, then I don't why it shouldn't happen, the way the Codex seems so happy about them lately. And if you don't, then why the fuck is this thread not already locked/moved/deleted?
     
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  3. Kawaii Theurgistgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Liturgist

    Kawaii Theurgist
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    @ Renegen

    Didn't she already did on the first post, and then again later?

    In any case, you don't really need to grind. I did get up to Rin Kaenbyou when I did play it and I never really had to grind. Instead, I had to study each character's strenghts and weaknesses, plan their levels up, and then plan how to line them up and switch them during the battle so certain characters would benefit from certain buffs, combine during certain attacks, etc.

    However the tactics, while deep, and the combat, while hard, are blobber tactics and combat. There is no exploiting the enemy AI, no taking advantage of positioning or movement rules. It is about who uses the best skills, lines up the best resistances, plays the enemy weakness against her, etc. Also, the combat and tactics are one hundred percent gamist. If you enjoy the kind of combat in, say, Generation XTH or Strange Journey you will love this. If you don't, well, you will not.

    And the game is brutally challenging, as it is obligatory on a Touhou related game. That makes finally understanding how to defeat a given enemy without grinding rewarding, given all boss battles are uphill ones. Grinding will not take you anywhere, the dungeons are so big you will get all the XP you need just by exploring all the tiles.

    Character development is simple and to the point. Each character has a growth rate and a set of skills, and there's no changing that. You can't turn Patchouli into a tank, no matter what. You can't turn Chen into a heavy hitter, again no matter what. You must study their skills, resistances, weaknesses and then develop them on the way you believe more convenient to exploit those strenghts and cover those weaknesses, while straying out of this plan only every now and then. They aren't your characters, and you don't build them. That's why you have so many to choose from: You must pick and match them to the challenge you are facing and the monsters you risk encountering.

    Well, that and because the fans would riot if their favorite one wasn't there.

    The skills are, again, quite varied, and the formulas are quite transparent, which makes picking which spell to use for each situation and what stats to develop for every character a matter of planning and number crunching goodness, as you know what you are gaining and what you are sacrificing at every level up and every training session.

    Finally, you also have to plan your expeditions to the dungeon. You only find terminals every so many levels, so you must balance who fights when and in which area to make sure you can explore longer, first, and then to reach the encounters you need to reach with the right characters fresh and ready. If you just run into the dungeon you will do badly, always.



    @ Jasede

    :love:

    And now you made me remember I need to go back to her and the Fairy Wars. That thing is brutal.



    Edit: @ DamnedRegistrations

    This link...

    http://www.pooshlmer.com/wakaba/res/501349.html

    ... has 3.01 and everything else you need.

    On the website where you must go to get 3.01, the link is the last one in case you can't read moonrunes.
     
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  4. Damned Registrationsgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

    Damned Registrations
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    Are you playing the 2.04 version or 3.01? I managed to get a hold of the former, but it looks like the patching is going to be convoluted. There are torrents for the latter pre patched, but they have no seeds.
     
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  5. Jaesungender: ⚧ Fabulous Moderator Patron

    Jaesun
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    What is this "world of difference" between Western cRPG's vs jRPG's? Enlighten me.

    In fact why don't you start a thread about it.
     
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  6. torpidgender: ⚧ Liturgist

    torpid
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    I found the game and I can get to a starting menu screen with "New Game", "Load Game" and "Quit", and I can cycle between the options with the keyboard, but I can't actually select one, and there's no mouse pointer either. I did everything they asked: overwriting the game folder with the plus folder, installing the 2.04 patch and then the English translation, and even the font that goes with the game.
    What is this Weaboo crap : x
     
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  7. Kawaii Theurgistgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Liturgist

    Kawaii Theurgist
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    @ Torpid

    Try Z, X, C, as well as the keys close to those (ctrl, alt, etc). Those are the keys doujin games usually use. I don't remember this problem myself but I actually find harder to not press Z the first thing upon loading a game, after so much doujin stuff.
     
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  8. Damned Registrationsgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

    Damned Registrations
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    Use the 'z' key. I do not know why.

    I got it to start up but dialog was all in moonspeak, so I botched it somewhere along the line. Might just wait until a tidier download is available. Half a dozen zips labeled in gibberish with no real instructions and multiple copies of the same files does not incite me to pour a lot of effort into getting this shit to work.
     
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  9. Kawaii Theurgistgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Liturgist

    Kawaii Theurgist
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    I did just gave you a link on my post before your earlier one, containing everything you need in a single place. Did you try that one, or are you talking about the torrent you downloaded earlier?
     
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  10. 1eyedkinggender: ⚧ Erudite

    1eyedking
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    wRPGs are deeply rooted in P&P RPGs, with all that comes from it. That alone sets them widely apart. Really, man, do you need me to draw the line that separates Fallout from Shin Megami Tensei?
     
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  11. I'm With Her Metrogender: ⚧ for prison Arcane Beg Auditor

    Metro
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    Anime has already ruined a generation of children -- we must draw the line somewhere.
     
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  12. Excidiumgender: ⚧ P. banal

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    But aren't JRPGs deeply rooted in Wizardry and other series from the 80's that basically started the genre on PC?

    JRPGS and WRPGS are just different branches of the same tree...
     
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  13. Stabwoundgender: ⚧ Magister

    Stabwound
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    There are some recent Japanese RPGS that are far more "CRPG" than anything any North American (or European) company has put out in a long ass time.

    See: Etrian Odyssey series, Class of Heroes, Wizardry spinoffs, etc.
     
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  14. MMXIgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Magister

    MMXI
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    Yep. Different branches of the same tree. The difference between the two being that western RPGs always aspired to be more than they could manage to be due to technological limitations. In the old days western RPGs could only really get combat right. However, that never stopped them from eventually including dialogue options with skill checks and non-combat abilities such as repair, alchemy, hacking and so on. JRPGs were typically content with being highly limited pen and paper adaptations (basically what Wizardry was in the 80s). They never really strove for more.

    However, nowadays the landscape is completely different. Western RPGs are basically action video games with trace elements of pen and paper role-playing scattered throughout (a couple of statistics here and there). Mainstream JRPGs may have gotten a hell of a lot worse also, but there are many that are still doing important things that western developers gave up on long ago such as an emphasis on character building through statistics.
     
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  15. 1eyedkinggender: ⚧ Erudite

    1eyedking
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    I was expecting that argument, and all it does is make me LOL at Wizardry and the other bland, generic spreadsheet RPGs of the past that are remembered as tactically deep and sound, when all they really had were endless treadmill combat through corridor after corridor with nary an encounter differing much from the other except on the number of reloads (or pre-buffs) it would take for your Fighter to make their reflex save against a dragon's breath.

    And no, you couldn't enhance your reflex save by going to town and buying some potion, or getting a bonus by getting some detailed info on what to expect from a dragon by someone you saved from near-death, missing some juicy item in the process. Games used to be hardcore like that, son. Also, obvious padding.

    And before you start calling me edgy and shit (or begin the endless turd-flinging that ensues from dethroning absurd classics), I'll get back on track: yes, Wizardry games are very similar to jRPGs when it comes to mechanics (sadly), but plot, art style, character classes, NPC behavior, lore, interface design, and story-wise they're different enough to set them apart. Very apart.

    So much you can actually call jRPGs jRPGs, and wRPGs wRPGs.
     
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  16. Make America Great Again Renegengender: ⚧ Arcane

    Renegen
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    I heard that Final Fantasy 1 was basically influenced by Dragon Warrior and D&D. I agree with your assessment of two branches.
     
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  17. Damned Registrationsgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

    Damned Registrations
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    Oh sure just edit shit in after my post to make me look bad. :x

    Thanks. Downloading. :love:
     
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  18. 1eyedkinggender: ⚧ Erudite

    1eyedking
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    Fixed.
     
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  19. 1eyedkinggender: ⚧ Erudite

    1eyedking
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    'Clever' Asian designers spotted a gold vein here: "Look, even westerners grind endlessly through these games to get some sense of power and accomplishment, without paying attention to the writing's quality, plot hooks, game-world lore, political agendas, coherence, economical factors, etc. Imagine how our robot Japanese fellowmen will fall for such a thing!"

    And boy, did they fall...
     
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  20. The Dudegender: ⚧ Liturgist

    The Dude
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    Seriously, all this DOES make you look like an edgy fuck, king. The first page of this sub-forum goes back as far as a week. The few threads about JRPGs that can share some semblance to western ones hardly buries the threads about "proper" western CRPGs. And so what if they are of different sub genres? It could easily be argued that there are even bigger differences, mechanical and artwise, in these sub genres themselves. So it would be a good idea to segregate this, not very fast moving, forum into a fragmented mess of sub forums just because some people are totally disinterested in this or that little sub genre? If I find myself totally disinterested in some RPG someone raves about, I shrug and move on, is that so fucking hard? This place used to be cool. I even remember a thread started by SaintP where he argued that The Sims was an RPG, in the *gasp* prestigious RPG DISCUSSION FORUM! The horror!
     
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  21. 1eyedkinggender: ⚧ Erudite

    1eyedking
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    Do you seriously want to attract more Joined: 2011 retards, alts, and weeaboos who post about inane shit games like this one?

    Also I would have liked to read that thread and discuss in it, actually, since "General RPG Discussion" is becoming more like a "Next Timesink Spreadsheet 'RPG' Appreciation" forum.
     
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  22. Kawaii Theurgistgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Liturgist

    Kawaii Theurgist
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    I believe everyone present already understood you are a larpfag by now, Hitotsume-Kun. There's no need for any more convincing.



    Edit: @ DamnedRegistrations

    Let me know if there's any trouble with that one. :3
     
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  23. Multi-headed Cowgender: ⚧ Guest

    Multi-headed Cow
    Oh, well that makes it ok. :rpgcodex:
     
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  24. 1eyedkinggender: ⚧ Erudite

    1eyedking
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    That's why I condone games like Arcanum, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, and Baldur's Gate, amirite?

    The Witcher and PS:T are perhaps the only exceptions I ever made because the art direction in them is just that good.

    If I could, I would have games of quality not inferior to Fallout and Fallout 2 in every regard, and actually would like that those two games be improved upon, but alas it has not come to pass. And judging from the current conditions in the game industry, and even in the current opinions and tastes of gamers (and in a forum as niche as the Codex), this will probably never happen.
     
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  25. MMXIgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Magister

    MMXI
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    Hey 1eyedking, do you like any pre-Fallout cRPGs then? Do you like the Gold Box games? Dark Sun: Shattered Lands? How about Wasteland? Dragon Wars? Wizardry VI and VII? Do you even like any of the Ultima games?
     
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