Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Touhou Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - Full (Beta) Translation Released

Discussion in 'jRPG Weeaboo Discussion' started by Crooked Bee, Aug 16, 2014.

  1. communardgender: ⚧ Arcane

    communard
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    Yeah, Mokou is the first real hurdle I've faced as well but god damn is she fucking me up. Komachi with some gear boosting fire affinity and supportive heals can stand up to her pretty much 5ever but my squishies keep getting randomly one shot and I have trouble keeping up the damage.
     
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  2. Crooked Beegender: ⚧ wide-wandering bee Patron

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    On Hard mode, do you get more exp and, more importantly, more/better loot if you fight a boss 2 levels higher than you vs. just 1 level higher? Just wondering if something like that makes sense to do.
     
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  3. Niektorygender: ⚧ one of some Patron

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    Mokou wasn't that bad for me. I had to reconfigure my party a bit for more damage and fire/wind resistance but after that it went fairly smoothly. I also used buffs/debuffs a lot. I had more trouble with Komachi (death everywhere!) and the kraken (can I get a turn, please?).
     
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  4. Damned Registrationsgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

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    Not that I've noticed. I've fought a few battles below par and I just get the usual ~2 gems for winning. As I mentioned earlier though, Nazrin can improve battle results a lot, and finessing things so that she gets the last hit can be pretty damned tricky (Finally managed just that on a fight I was having a ton of trouble with. Was planning to just end it any way possible but the RNG changed tunes in a big way all at once. I suppose there is also Rinnosuke, but he's a useless buttface and has been sitting back in town ever since I got 13 members.

    I remember in the first game having a fair bit of trouble even getting past Youmu. That was the first floor wasn't it? Pretty early anyways.
     
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  5. communardgender: ⚧ Arcane

    communard
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    Mokou-tan down. Final fight took way loner than it probably should have. A gruelling fucking war of attrition. Komachi saved the day in the end.
     
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  6. Damned Registrationsgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

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    Welp. Tenshi is as OP as ever. Also, Komachi is back in my team now. Never cared for her too much, but I just realized what she can do with my ace...
     
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  7. Niektorygender: ⚧ one of some Patron

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    Seems like I've finally hit a wall... Divine Beasts' Golden Mirror at floor 12 kicks my ass hard. Only a few characters can hurt it and they're too fragile to survive the massive damage it deals, and the damn thing's too fast to swap them out reliably. Same goes for the healers. Got any tips?
     
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  8. Damned Registrationsgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

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    Just got there today myself. Only fought it the once, and I was pretty underlevelled and haven't finished exploring the level. Still, I managed to do ~6k with a spell it was resistant to, so I can probably pull it off with some levels. It seems to only use magic attacks, so I'll probably use some mind walls like Patchy and Parsee. Maybe give Lumia the enchanter skill that buffs defenses when you heal. Doesn't seem to have any focus on using particular elements though, so abusing that is out. Kaguya might be handy too for the 90% defense piercing, since the thing seems extremely tanky. Maybe use Alice for the bonus damage to inorganic foes.
     
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  9. Niektorygender: ⚧ one of some Patron

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    You're right. It does some PHY element attacks so I automatically assumed MND wouldn't help againt them, but now that I've tried it they're magical too. That's going to make it easier... hopefully.
     
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  10. Crooked Beegender: ⚧ wide-wandering bee Patron

    Crooked Bee
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    12F, whoa. Wish I had more time to play. I'm still on 3F, and I have a few stupid questions because, again, I don't remember the first game's stat system very well anymore.

    Are elemental stats like MYS, DRK, PHY etc. responsible for your defense against respective attacks or the damage you do with these elements, or both? (Judging by Goriki's Charm's description -- "SPI+50, negates some damage from enemies" -- those should be responsible at least for defense.) And if they do contribute to your elemental attacks, then how do MAG and those elemental stats add up?

    Also, what does the Terror (TRR) effect do exactly? I tried searching the Touhou wiki, but couldn't find it.
     
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  11. Damned Registrationsgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

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    Elemental stats are defensive only. They're basically your effective hp % vs those attacks. So 300 Fire means you only take one third, while 33 fire means you take triple.

    As for status effects:

    • Poison: Gradually saps the victim's HP. Cannot reduce HP below 1.
    • Paralysis: Stops the victim's timebar. If it was full when they were paralyzed, they may still take an action but their timebar won't fill further.
    • Heavy: Allies cannot be switched out. Enemies suffer reduced Speed.
    • Shock: Immediately halves the victim's timebar. Not a persistent effect.
    • Terror: Allies lose some MP after every action. Enemies have all stats reduced slightly.
    • Silence: Allies cannot use spellcards. Enemies have their Magic and Mind reduced.
    • Death: Instantly defeats the victim.
    • Debuff: Covers all stat reductions.
    Ripped from the wiki (it was buried in the gameplay page, beneath some stuff I kind wish I'd found out on my own actually.)

    Oh, and based on some testing, status effects expire faster for faster enemies. So stacking speed debuffs can make them last a lot longer. Not sure if poison ends up doing damage more slowly that way.

    Been trying to kill that stupid boss this morning. It defnitely does have physical attacks too, and one in particular hits like a truck for the whole party. Between that and it's bullshit second phase I'm having a fair bit of trouble. It's weak to cold and mystic (Way more to cold) and I dunno what else. I managed to poison it, but it's definitely not weak to that, it's immune to pretty much every other status there is, and seems totally immune to physical damage. The real problem is it's second phase. It seems to use ancient curse a lot more often, and more importantly, if I wait long enough for everyone to recover mp with some tanks out front, the game's soft enrage timer mechanic ends up wiping me out. I can't even consistently keep it's speed debuffed (Discarder seems shittier at that one than the others for some reason.)
     
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  12. Damned Registrationsgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

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    Just beat it. Lulz, it's apparently immune to poison too in fact. I guess Wriggle just has stupidly high chance to inflict poison. Also, not actually weak to mystic. I thought thats what pink numbers meant, but apparently not. Only cold and nature are weaknesses. Fire and wind are neutral, everything else is resisted. Oh, and it counts as Divine, so if you want to use Nazrin, be sure to grab her skill that does extra damage to those types. Though she'll have a rough time hurting it herself without some major buffs/debuffs in play.

    Edit: MOTHERFUCKER! :rage:
     
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  13. Crooked Beegender: ⚧ wide-wandering bee Patron

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    lol
     
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  14. Niektorygender: ⚧ one of some Patron

    Niektory
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    This time I came prepared. Min-maxed everything. Parsee, Minoriko, Ran and Keine as buffing squad with tons of MND (plus HP for Keine). 8 glass cannons, including 5 with defense piercing attacks. DRK/PHY affinity boosts where needed. MP recovery skills and equipment. Then:

    [​IMG]

    Destroyed it.
    Now I need a break.
     
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  15. Damned Registrationsgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

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    Nice. Sounds like you used a completely different party than me.

    This floor is such a bitch. Urgh. And now I half to redo half of it because I forgot to save and don't want to give up a nice item drop I had a chance at.
     
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  16. da_raysgender: ⚧ Learned

    da_rays
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    Thank a lot to Crooked Bee! Vury nice find , got the 1st downloaded , currently on floor 3 and having a blast. Still getting use to the system mechanic / stats / formation and all that. Lot less grindy than it look like. Should i go through the 1st one before going on the second ? ( I already know this is gonna be addicting for the rest of my summer....)
    Any crucial tips for a touhou virgin like me?

    And yes my last sentence sounded very wrong.
     
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  17. Damned Registrationsgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

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    I'd say play through the main game of the first one, but don't bother with the post game (it's grindtastic.) The sequel is better, but mostly just in a polished kind of way, and they're both definitely worth playing.

    As for crucial tips... in the first game you can't refund the level up points, so just be sure not to spend them somewhere stupid you'll regret later. The game has lots of viable ways to build both the characters and parties though, so don't worry about it too much. Also, status effects are key for fighting many bosses. Don't assume they'll all fail all the time.
     
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  18. da_raysgender: ⚧ Learned

    da_rays
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    Great , thanks for the tips. Im currently building my character ''in theirs respective strentgh'' . I thought that the elemental affinity would build a bit of extra firepower , but its mainly only for resistance i think. Im still early in the game tho , so i guess i can always tweak that up a bit. I love what they did with TP , thats a nice layer you need to account for. God damn that TP upgrade is costing a lot of points....
     
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  19. Damned Registrationsgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

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    Oh man, this floor... time to break out the notepad. I love shit like this though.
     
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  20. da_raysgender: ⚧ Learned

    da_rays
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    Ah! Thought I was alone playing this with a pen & scratching pad. Love that shit too. Been awhile since I've had to do that . Smell like a no sleep night ( or bare minimum ) tonight. I envy u guys on part 2 . 17 floor to go!

    sent from my crappy rooted hipstreet flare
     
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  21. Damned Registrationsgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

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    I seem to have missed something somehow. I'm clearly near the endgame at this point but I'm missing a character way back in the list (Just above Alice iirc) and there's a boss fight icon I can't get to that has a level cap I surpassed quite some time ago. And I think it's daisy chaining into preventing me from getting some stuff where I am now. Argh. Really don't want to spoil myself on it though.
     
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  22. Niektorygender: ⚧ one of some Patron

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    Since the munchkin in me couldn't bear not knowing the attack formulas I took matters into my own hands and tested them all.
    I didn't include spellcard names but they're in the same order as in game. Dashes represent support spells.
    All numbers are percentages (couldn't be bothered to stick %s everywhere). Atk and mag are attacker's stats, def and mnd are defender's stats.
    Elemental modifiers are applied after these calculations. Also, some spells have special properties which aren't included in these formulas.
    Show Spoiler

    Reimu
    (atk*88+mag*88-def*50)*140
    (atk*120+mag*120-mnd*50)*150
    -
    -

    Marisa
    (mag*160-mnd*50)*120
    (mag*110-mnd*50)*175
    (mag*200-mnd*50)*240
    -

    Keine
    (mag*128-def*50)*128
    (mag*128-mnd*50)*128
    -
    -

    Momiji
    (atk*150-def*50)*150
    (atk*112-def*50)*180

    Youmu
    (atk*140-def*50)*140
    (atk*180-def*50)*140
    (atk*128-def*50)*180
    (atk*100-def*50)*200

    Kogasa
    (atk*110-def*50)*140
    (atk*160-def*50)*160
    (atk*125-def*50)*150

    Rumia
    (mag*180-mnd*50)*180
    (mag*100)*100
    -

    Cirno
    (atk*80+mag*80-def*50)*160
    (atk*200-def*50)*112
    (atk*80+mag*80-def*50)*120
    -

    Minoriko
    (mag*120-mnd*50)*140
    (mag*160-mnd*50)*160
    -
    -

    Komachi
    (atk*148-def*50)*132
    (atk*100-def*50)*180
    (mag*200-mnd*50)*200
    (atk*170-def*50)*150

    Chen
    (atk*125-def*50)*125
    (atk*125-def*50)*250
    -

    Nitori
    (atk*110-def*50)*190
    (atk*140-def*50)*140
    (atk*250-def*50)*250
    -

    Parsee
    (atk*140-def*50)*140
    (atk*100-def*50)*200
    (atk*128-def*50)*164
    (atk*250-def*50)*250

    Wriggle
    (atk*150-def*50)*100
    (atk*128-def*50)*164
    (atk*135-def*50)*135

    Kaguya
    (mag*120-mnd*50)*148
    (mag*110-mnd*50)*150
    (mag*140-mnd*50)*132
    (mag*178-mnd*50)*178

    Mokou
    (atk*132-def*50)*132
    (atk*128-def*50)*128
    (atk*140-def*50)*188

    Aya
    (atk*110-def*50)*110
    (atk*150-def*50)*150
    -
    -

    Mystia
    (atk*120-def*50)*160
    (atk*140-def*50)*140
    (atk*125-def*50)*250
    -

    Kasen
    (atk*165-def*50)*165
    (atk*132-def*50)*148
    (atk*110-def*50)*200
    -

    Nazrin
    (mag*200-mnd*50)*112
    (mag*140-mnd*50)*140
    (mag*110-mnd*50)*220

    Hina
    -
    (mag*150-mnd*50)*100
    (mag*140-mnd*50)*140

    Rin
    (atk*100-def*50)*100
    (atk*100+mag*100-def*50)*112
    (atk*150-def*50)*150
    (atk*90+mag*90-mnd*50)*140

    Utsuho
    (mag*124-mnd*5)*124
    (mag*124-mnd*50)*124
    (mag*90-mnd*50)*200

    Satori
    (mag*128-mnd*50)*128

    Yuugi
    (atk*160-def*50)*120
    (atk*200-def*50)*130
    (atk*100-def*50)*125

    Meiling
    (atk*120-def*50)*180
    (atk*200-def*25)*160
    -
    -

    Alice
    (mag*150-def*50)*150
    (mag*160-def*50)*120
    (mag*120-mnd*50)*200
    (mag*80-mnd*50)*240

    Patchouli
    (mag*156-mnd*50)*140
    (mag*170-mnd*50)*110
    (mag*112-mnd*50)*180
    (mag*136-mnd*50)*136
    (mag*170-mnd*50)*170

    Eirin
    (mag*128-mnd*50)*140
    (mag*120-mnd*50)*150
    -
    (mag*140-mnd*50)*188

    Reisen
    (mag*110-mnd*50)*188
    (mag*160-mnd*50)*160
    (mag*140-mnd*50)*140
    (mag*88-mnd*50)*100
    -

    Sanae
    (mag*110-mnd*50)*220
    (mag*164-mnd*50)*120
    -
    -

    Iku
    (mag*160-mnd*50)*160
    (mag*140-mnd*50)*140
    -
    -

    Suika
    (atk*150-def*50)*150
    (atk*190-def*50)*190
    (mag*200-mnd*50)*200
    -
    (atk*100-mnd*50)*125

    Ran
    (mag*140-mnd*50)*140
    (mag*110-mnd*50)*180
    (atk*100+mag*125-def*50)*150
    -
    -

    Remilia
    (atk*150-def*50)*150
    -

    Sakuya
    (atk*66-def*50)*150
    (atk*88-def*50)*330
    (atk*124+mag*40-def*50)*148
    -
    -

    Kanako
    (mag*144-def*50)*144
    (mag*130-def*50)*160
    (mag*160-mnd*50)*160
    (mag*175-mnd*50)*175

    Suwako
    (atk*128-def*50)*128
    (atk*170-def*50)*170
    (mag*138-mnd*50)*138
    (mag*152-def*50)*152

    Tenshi
    (atk*164-def*50)*164
    (atk*120-def*50)*180
    (atk*128-def*50)*200
    -

    Flandre
    (atk*200-def*50)*164
    (mag*220-mnd*50)*220
    (atk*180+mag*180-def*50)*240

    Yuyuko
    (mag*150-mnd*50)*150
    (mag*148-mnd*25)*160
    (mag*140-mnd*50)*140
    (mag*132-mnd*50)*300

    Yuuka
    (mag*150-mnd*50)*120
    (mag*118-mnd*50)*158
    (mag*132-mnd*50)*132

    Yukari
    (mag*120-mnd*50)*120
    (mag*120-mnd*25)*200
    (mag*140-def*50)*140
    -
    -

    Byakuren
    (atk*120-def*50)*120
    (atk*170-def*50)*170
    (mag*132-mnd*50)*132
    (atk*108+mag*108-mnd*50)*160
    -

    Eiki
    (atk*150)*150
    (mag*180-mnd*50)*140
    (mag*140-mnd*50)*140

    Let me know if something looks wrong or if there's something else you'd like me to test.
     
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  23. Damned Registrationsgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

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    Very cool. Looks like I was already using the best spell EVAR for Satori though. Neat seeing where other stuff lands though, and having a slightly inferior option in another element is good too.

    One thing I'd be really curious to know is the poison mechanics, but that'd probably be rather difficult to test. In particular, I saw a reference somewhere to Wriggle being able to increase the power of existing poison effects. But I don't know if that simply referred to the usual way you can overwrite status effects with a larger status of the same type. If it's something really powerful like increasing the dps while refreshing the duration, that could actually make wriggle really useful.

    Actually, another thing I'd be curious about is how in battle modifiers on stats stack. Like, say you have the Team9 buff for +48% stats, and then get +100% Def, are you at 248% or 296%? Pretty minor effect either way though, so mostly just a curiosity.

    Then there's all those various +damage effects, including the boost status. Not sure if they work before or after defense is taken into account. I have a foggy idea that it's before based on a fight where I was using that Grand Incantation skill that gives you boost status when you charge, but I'm not sure.
     
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  24. Crooked Beegender: ⚧ wide-wandering bee Patron

    Crooked Bee
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    That's awesome. Not gonna look at it just yet though, I like playing blindly for the time being. Maybe when I get totally stuck.
     
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  25. Damned Registrationsgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

    Damned Registrations
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    Oh, a couple things you might want to know about are some bugged skills.

    Marisa: Main Character - Marisa
    Momiji: Tengu's Watchful Eye
    Sanae: Divine Protection of Moriya
    None of those do anything. In Sanae's case, another of her skills (Last Wish) has it's normal effect as well as the effect of the broken skill.

    There are some other bugged skills/spells in the game, but their effects are generally minor enough to forget about.
     
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