Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Knights of the Chalice on Ironman - the ultimate challenge

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Paula Tormeson IV, Mar 4, 2010.

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Ironman settings

  1. Random world-map encounters AND cleared areas do NOT stay cleared

    1 vote(s)
    14.3%
  2. No random world-map encounters AND cleared areas do NOT stay cleared

    1 vote(s)
    14.3%
  3. No random world-map encounters AND cleared areas do STAY cleared

    5 vote(s)
    71.4%
  1. Stalingender: ⚧ Scholar

    Stalin
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  2. Waterd103gender: ⚧ Novice

    Waterd103
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    Boladin: Mul cleric S:17 D:11 C:18 I:12 W:17 H:10 Feat: Scribe Scrolls.

    Kassar: Human Wizard S:10 D:14 C:11 I:18 W:15 H:14 Feat: Evocation, Greater Evocation.

    Gadwin: Mul Knight S:19 D:13 C:18 I:15 W:9 H:11 Feat: Greatsword, Cleave.

    Valina:Half-elf Knight S:12 D:20 C:11 I:13 W:10 H:11 Feat: Longbow, Point blank

    This is what I got lets see how far they got. This is the second time Im gonna play, the first one i Lost in the orc fortress, now I know how vital is scribing scrolls so hope to get farther.
     
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  3. Waterd103gender: ⚧ Novice

    Waterd103
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    Boladin: Mul cleric S:17 D:11 C:18 I:12 W:17 H:10 Feat: Scribe Scrolls.

    Kassar: Human Wizard S:10 D:14 C:11 I:18 W:15 H:14 Feat: Evocation, Greater Evocation.

    Gadwin: Mul Knight S:19 D:13 C:18 I:15 W:9 H:11 Feat: Greatsword, Cleave.

    Valina:Half-elf Knight S:12 D:20 C:11 I:13 W:10 H:11 Feat: Longbow, Point blank

    The elemntals take out , Kassar and Valina so fast that I thought it was the end, I only took one more elemental before Boladin went out. It was up to Gadwin against 2 elemental, and he did itwith so much problem. Gadwin is indeed the better char in my team.
    I had only enough gold for the Missile wand, so I went to gamble my money to see if i could get enough money for the healing wand, lucky i was, I won, and I got my healing wand.
    The orc raid was very easy with only Boladin going down, just made a wall of man and Gadwin and Valina took it allI got level 2

    Gadwin: Dodge

    Valina: Preciste shot.

    The centipide in the bathrrom killed Kassar in one hit. but it still was killed easily.

    The thugs in corintah become a race between their leader and Gadwin to take out the trash. Gadwin again proves to be the key of survival of the team, beating their leader in a 1 on 1, its gonna be gadwin the only hero sorrounded by useless morons?

    3 lizards in corintah proceed to again take my team while Gadwin saves the day.

    4 lizards in the house give no fight at all, even Kassar with mere magic missiles seemed like a champ

    Level 3:
    Gadwin: Mobility
    Boladin: Improved initiative Spells: Cure moderate wounds, Sonic burst.
    Kassar: Improved initiative Spells: Web, Bull's strength.
    Valina: Forge Weapon and Armor

    After forgin a Greatsword and composite longbow masterwork, I fight a shaman that stands no chance against 4 chars.

    2 lizards in a room prove a waste of time, specially because they do some damage so i have to go heal to the keep.

    The same can be said about 3 snakes in other room, but at least they give me a +1 protection ring that I quikcly give to Kassar the wizard.

    3 centipides seem to follow the pattern, this fights are annoying.

    At last an intersting fight, when my team gets ambushed by the whole lizard team.
    Im sad to see improved initiated didnt had any use when i was quickly sorrounded before i could move a finger.
    Moreover im starting to worry about some of my choice, The cleric is helping the team with summons and heals (and some meatshield), The wizard is finish what gadwin left almost dead and, its bull strength proves great.
    But Valina is nothing else than meatshield, her damage is pathetic at most, I wonder if she will do anything good for the team, maybe when I can forge Good arrows? I can only hope.

    Leve 4:
    After the talk with the people of the village, I get to level 4
    Gadwin: +1 Str, Feats:Greatsword Specialization
    Boladin: +1 Wis, Spells: Remove paralysis, Silence.
    Kassar: +1 Int, Spells: Glitterdust, Daze monster.
    Valina: +1 Con, Feats: Longbow Specialization.

    I decide to see if I can do the possible sidequests before going to that orc fort which was my doom the last time.

    I check the journal so I will go to the southwest cave to look for that ring. I talk with some bears that ASK ME to bring them zombie meat for a fireplace, why would i want a fireplace when I have access to it in the keep , to wich i have free way into?. No idea.

    I fight 3 centipides in the entrance, wich pose almost no problem, great, another annoying useless fights, except now some spiders jump in!, maybe those centipides are just there soften me? no spideres dont want to fight, another useless fight, I go heal and comeback.

    Wow another useless fight against 2 zombies, if it werent because i know the orc fortress is hard i would give up at this point.

    Ok now we are talking I see some skeletons and 2 spiders trap me, that fight scared me , my wizard sorrounded by skeletons while the web make sure gadwin couldnt help, The fire elemental saved
    teh day, and make me wonder if its worth to spend 2 feats in order to improve elementals (if it was just one, i would in a second), they are proving to be very usefull.

    I need to get bludgeon weapons if there is gonna be more skeletons, just in case, again I feel my improved initiative was a wasted feat.

    Anyway now im scared in may find the end in this dungeon, I forge a heavy flail and a warhammer in case more of these skeletons appear.

    A useless snake die and waste my time. So does a war spider, even if it gives me an idea what i may follow next.

    I fight the Queen spider and his friends, the fight seems to go easy , as i have all my chars full health by the time only queen spider is alive. I take her down little by little until she pulls some weird Coup de grace that i dont undrestand where it came from, killing my cleric, for good.
    Since he is the only one that could cast Raise the dead, even if i buy a scroll, I have no way to revive him, also no way to produce scrolls of healings needed to go further. So with my cleric dead, I have a "technical lose", and thus Gadwin , Valina and Kassar, decide to leave the knighthood and dedicate their lifes to raise crops.
     
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  4. Elwrogender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

    Elwro
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    Whoa, shame about that. Will you try again? It's entertaining to read about others' attempts when you don't have the time to play yourself :D
     
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  5. Waterd103gender: ⚧ Novice

    Waterd103
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    Yes, In fact I may do an LP thread.
     
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  6. Elwrogender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

    Elwro
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    Cool, looking forward to it!
     
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  7. Sitra Acharagender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

    Sitra Achara
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    Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
    You can raise dead PCs with NPC clerics - a little icon should appear next to their names in the barter screen.

    There's one in Vanicia (it's a bit far away, but at least it doesn't involve ambushes).
     
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  8. Waterd103gender: ⚧ Novice

    Waterd103
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    Thanks but i dont know how I feel about this, since I only happen to know there is one in vanicia after you tell me, in any case, i lost the last save game, since I didnt save the game before exiting.
     
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  9. betamingender: ⚧ Learned

    betamin
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    Not ironman but I started a 4 knight game forgetting that only clerics can heal + there is no way of recovering from things like "blind" unless you have a cleric but oh well, im stuck inside that orc fortress with 3 blind guys before fighting the witch :(
     
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  10. Coyotegender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Coyote
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    :shock: Wow. An all-knight game of KotC sounds a lot more hardcore than an ironman game. Good luck with that.
     
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  11. Waterd103gender: ⚧ Novice

    Waterd103
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    Ok I did my 3rd run in the game and Ii did this challenge. I completed the game.
    I was doing the LP in other thread, but while I was playing and writing down things, I was getting annoyed at the big amount of pointless fights. And Just stopped writing and Just focused on playing as fast as possible.

    I could post the RAW of what I wrote, but it seems pointless. Ironman is definitely doable, the hard part is early on, once you can craft, the power of your chars goes out of proportion. Maybe harder to do without max hp or 1 max stat.

    Just have 2 Clerics, and letr HEAL or RESURRECT infinitely each other or the others, while the other 2 take everthing down, and no fight is a problem.

    About 4 knights, yes, I think its impossible to ironman or even beat, even if you put max HP and all stats to MAX!

    The final fight would be just impossible , maybe if you reload 1000 times, you win one.
     
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  12. betamingender: ⚧ Learned

    betamin
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    The beginning is actually easier but once you start facing mages it all goes down to shit. If you could use healing wands maybe it would be possible but as it is you would need to save/reload to the infinity to avoid adverse status afflictions.
     
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  13. Waterd103gender: ⚧ Novice

    Waterd103
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    I want to do a 4th ironman run, but im unsure on what challenge to add. Specially now that I know the game should be even easier.
    Some things im thinking about.
    No Craft/script/forge feats at all.
    Only 1 use per fireplace
    No max hp and zero max stats.

    I wonder if no craft etc isnt too much, Im kind of sad that without craft, a Knight would be useless.
     
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  14. betamingender: ⚧ Learned

    betamin
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    1 cleric 3 knights
     
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  15. Waterd103gender: ⚧ Novice

    Waterd103
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    It kind of depends of what I want to achieve, IF i want to beat the final final final battle, Then picking that is the same that autolosing. Even not having that into account reaching there seems a miracle. I guess thats too much of a handicap, also kind of boring because i have no options. Also I think Knight may be the worst class. Specially late.
    In fact without adding anything else im thinking about running 2 clerics, 1 wizard, and Wizard/Cleric.

    2 knights I think is the worst you can run without making the run impossible. Knights are the worst class BY FAR.

    Unless you mean that team but without any of the other penalties.
    In any case it doesnt seem to be possible or even have many options. So knights are not only the worst class, but the most boring.

    I guess I will start the run with the handicaps I named.
    Now I just have to decide what to run in the 4th slot and start it. (having said that running 1 knight in the four slot, may be the right option)
     
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  16. betamingender: ⚧ Learned

    betamin
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    How bout 3 clerics 1 wiz? It's not gonna be some choices happy game but it could add some difficulty
     
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  17. Waterd103gender: ⚧ Novice

    Waterd103
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    In fact, as I said, I think 3 clerics, 1 wizard, is one of the two best teams in the game along with 2 wiz and 2 clerics. I really dont know which one is better.

    EDIT: Just in case someone want to do the challenge, Wich i find interesting, I already started today and its as follow.

    -Ironman mode
    -1 use per campfire (Write down in a notepad or somewhere everytime you use a campfire as to not reuse it later)
    -No crafting/Forge/Scribing scrolls (Which means no share spells)
    -Can Only use NPC clerics to remove permanent effects.
    -Zero Resets in Character creation.
    -Default Gameplay based settings (except flee can fail)*

    *Gameplay based settings are the last 6 options in the setting menu, it should look like:
    NO/NO/0/NO/NO/YES

    EDIT 2:
    Ironman lesson dont change resolution while you are recording with fraps, It crashes the game and you lose the ironman run!.

    EDIT3: My party died fast! :( I did 2 clerics and 2 wizards (I think the best team is 3 clerics and 1 wizard though), and its was so harsh because Wizards are SO BAD before they even get to level 5. I lost against the lizards in corinth. I think 3 clerics and 1 wizard is SLIGHTLY worse late, and a lot better early, making i a better choice, But I think 2 wizards may be more fun. I will try again with 2 wizards and if it fails I will do a final run with 3 clerics.

    EDIT 4: My second party of 2 clerics and 2 wizard failed in a bad way. Little did i know that if your char was dominated, and you take him down, it dies, no matter what. Or that is what apprently happend.
    Little did I know in my trave to venice to revive him that the monsters you find in the path are WAY beyond your possible level, and just break you. And thus I lost again.

    EDIT 5. My third party, now 3 clerics and 1 wizard, did fall even FASTER. I got terrible stats on the 5 chars and already demoralized fought the first 4 elementals. Before i could even move I was down my wizard and one cleric. Honestly I could have try to fightback healing the fallen soldiers, but instead decided to fight it like a man, and lost.

    EDIT 6: My 4th party, Again 2 wizard/2 clerics(I dont know why I keep with it ) failed in the cave, I pushed too hard, and, when I wanted to comeback, spiders where blocking the exit, I didnt have resources to finish the fight :( This is hard!

    EDIT 7: My 5th party, Again 2 wizard/2 clerics (yeah, again), lost against the first 4 elementals. This time i tried, but despite improved initiative on both wizards, elementals moved first and took them down, the clerics tried to revie one but the -3 just got to 0, not enough. Both clerics ended losing against both elementals without even taking one down! Sad. It seems without a Knight, this fight is hard.
    I thikn I will add a Knight to my party just becaus losing another run against the elementals would be sad.

    EDIT 8: My 6th party a 3 Cleric/1 wizard team with weak stats gets a Technical fail when the leader of the Orc assault do to a cirtical to my cleric of 33 DAMAGE!. Sending him from full 18 hp to his death in one stroke. That was a lame end.
     
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  18. betamingender: ⚧ Learned

    betamin
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    Damn that's some pain right there, I'll try the challenge later on the week, I really don't expect much though.
     
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  19. Waterd103gender: ⚧ Novice

    Waterd103
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    I thnk its not impossible as im learning a lot and improving the 7th team, of 1 knight 2 clerics and 1 wizard, got to the queen of spiders with only using corinth and keep campfire, And the lose was because I spent my last 2nd level cleric spell on a restoration thinking that it would remove the paralysis from the wizard. (it seems if your wizard gets paralyzed because 0 STR, restoring the STR do not remove the paralysis, you also seem to need a remove paralysis spell). IT didnt, and it proved fatal, since my whole plan on that fight was my wizard to missile down the Queen.

    But I think my 8th team will have more chances, 1 knight is a must, because he can do a lot of damage without using skills like the cleric or wizard.
    I said a few posts back how knight was the worst class, but that was based on scribe scrolls and infinite rests. Now with rests being an issue, A knight may be a key to a successful run. I Have high hopes for it in my next attempt, which I may do today or maybe tomorrow.

    EDIT: Since there is a lack of interest on the current challenge I will move my updates to KOTC official forum
     
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  20. Waterdgender: ⚧ Scholar

    Waterd
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    After months I finally completed the following challenge in my 15th attempt (note that 1 time i crashed lategame and the other I abandoned myself early game because noticed that my stats were too overpowered and thus i created a new rule and started a new challenge)
    It's definitly doable but hard, and I think its fun try. few games have such a pleasant combat system as KOTC so it was a good way to keep myself interested in the game. So maybe if you also a fan of KOTC and didn't know how to challenge yourself to keep interested, I strongly suggest the following challenge and is definitely doable.

    Rules:
    Ironman run
    Char creation: No Reroll but allowed to cancel to go back and change other things. Chars should be rerolled if they have 73 points or less before the last reroll or 85+ after
    the final reroll.
    1 use per campfire
    No crafting Whatsoever, (So no share spells)
    Default Gameplay based settings (except , no world encounters or monster respawn.)
    NPC clerics healing can only be used on Chars with Permanent negative effects.
    Can only buy 1 scroll of each infinite stack NPC clerics have (if 1 of those scrolls is bought, we have to buy 1 scroll of each infinite statck of that NPC cleric) from the following spells:
    Cure light wounds, Cure moderate wounds, Cure Serious wounds.
    Can't sell non-gem items whose cost is less than 1k.
     
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  21. Elwrogender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

    Elwro
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    Nice, congrats! It has to take much perseverence to finish an iron man run, especially since luck is a factor that can't be ignored even with the best strategy :D KotC is a game which really lends itself well to such challenges...

    Congratulations again!
     
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  22. Gregzgender: ⚧ Arcane

    Gregz
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    I'm replaying KoTC for the 3rd time, and the above sounds absolutely impossible to me.

    The conditions I find most implausible are '1 use per campfire' and 'no crafting'.

    Can anyone explain how an Ironman run with the above restrictions is possible?
     
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  23. VentilatorOfDoomgender: ⚧ RPG Codex Staff Patron

    VentilatorOfDoom
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    I'd call bullshit tbh. On one hand you cannot craft (no wands, scrolls etc) then you're also not allowed to buy more than 1 scroll and to make up for all of it you're also not allowed to rest. Derp.
     
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  24. ArchAngelgender: ⚧ Magister

    ArchAngel
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    Those rules come down to knowing each encounter and how to beat it most efficiently but mostly with having enough luck with rolls. It has nothing to do with skill or smarts and as such are stupid rules.
     
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  25. Waterdgender: ⚧ Scholar

    Waterd
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    With 2 clerics with those rules I think I can pull an ironman run more than 65% of the times, AFTER I win the first fight of the game, which is very very hard.
    Now Im trying with only 1 cleric and Yes, I failed everytime. I didnt manage to complete the game on ironman once with only one cleric with the rules i mentioned, but if there is enough demand i can make several videos of me doing the run or me streaming on twitch.
    With 2 clerics, even with those rules, the game is definitly beteable at least 65% of the time (probably even more), not counting the first fight.
    With only 1 cleric though, I can concede you need some miracles.

    It has to be 2 clerics and 1 wizard, the 4th doesnt really matter.

    Here is more information of my position:
    http://www.heroicfantasygames.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=334

    Note that a lot of the hard fights in that top 10 hard fight list is if you dont expect them, thats the problem of the first fight of the game, even if you know exactly what to expect, there is not much you can do.
     
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