Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning?

Kraszu

Prophet
Joined
May 27, 2005
Messages
3,253
Location
Poland
difficulty coming mostly from pressing set combination of buttons fast

Really, come on, you haven't played it. Because that's just bullshit incarnate.



Enemies in constant stun lock, or in air unable to do any attack, and people who are impressed that he can execute all combos in comments.

What you find hardest can be subjective ok, but that is part of difficulty that plays in tedious way, and that is the complaint. I had more problems with executing combos in Blade of Darkness then with anything else in that game.
 

J_C

One Bit Studio
Patron
Developer
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
16,947
Location
Pannonia
Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Making those combos, pulling off those stun locks, juggling with the enemies in the air requires perfect timing, perfect positioning, perfect rythm. It is not just about hitting the buttons in the right order, that is easy. And don't tell me that I'm wrong. I've played the game, I know what the combat system is like. You don't, so STFU!
 

Kraszu

Prophet
Joined
May 27, 2005
Messages
3,253
Location
Poland
Making those combos, pulling off those stun locks, juggling with the enemies in the air requires perfect timing, perfect positioning, perfect rythm. It is not just about hitting the buttons in the right order, that is easy. And don't tell me that I'm wrong. I've played the game, I know what the combat system is like. You don't, so STFU!

I had never said that it is easy, yes I know that specific timing is required between presses, but that is the point, it is all muscle memory, this timing is always the same if you want to execute specif combo, or specific set of combos. Good combat to me is all about adapting to what enemies are doing, timing what they do, not in making it challenging to execute attack that I want to do.
 

Shannow

Waster of Time
Joined
Sep 15, 2006
Messages
6,386
Location
Finnegan's Wake
To adapt:
1. (often foll by to) to adjust (someone or something, esp oneself) to different conditions, a new environment, etc.
2. (tr) to fit, change, or modify to suit a new or different purpose to adapt a play for use in schools

To adopt:
1. (Law) Law to bring (a person) into a specific relationship, esp to take (another's child) as one's own child
2. to choose and follow (a plan, technique, etc.)
3. to take over (an idea, etc.) as if it were one's own
4. to take on; assume to adopt a title
5. (Business / Commerce) to accept (a report, etc.)


Don't want to be a grammar-nazi, but I simply couldn't take it anymore. Sry, Kraszu :oops:
Now, do please continue with this rivetting discussion.

For the record: I prefer a timing based system (Gothic) or a situational system (M&B) but I don't mind the use of combos (Streetfighter 2) :P
 

Trash

Pointing and laughing.
Joined
Dec 12, 2002
Messages
29,683
Location
About 8 meters beneath sea level.
Awesome. Black screen at game start. I'll take the hint.
As it was already mentioned multiple times in this thread - try disabling post-processing.

I know. Still, when I start a demo I do not expect to have to scour forums and threads for a black screen fix. Game also seems like a lightweight arpg. With a shitload of bugs. Meh.
 

Cowboy Moment

Arcane
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
4,407
difficulty coming mostly from pressing set combination of buttons fast

Really, come on, you haven't played it. Because that's just bullshit incarnate.



Enemies in constant stun lock, or in air unable to do any attack, and people who are impressed that he can execute all combos in comments.

What you find hardest can be subjective ok, but that is part of difficulty that plays in tedious way, and that is the complaint. I had more problems with executing combos in Blade of Darkness then with anything else in that game.


Why do you dislike combos in Blade of Darkness then? It's not like you can stunlock or knock enemies around. In fact, just blindly executing combos with no setup can easily get you skewered if the enemy just dodges the first attack and counters. In any case, anything that makes the combat more skill-intensive is good in my book.

This, of course, disregards the Amazon with her bullshit range and maneuverability.
 

Kraszu

Prophet
Joined
May 27, 2005
Messages
3,253
Location
Poland
Why do you dislike combos in Blade of Darkness then? It's not like you can stunlock or knock enemies around. In fact, just blindly executing combos with no setup can easily get you skewered if the enemy just dodges the first attack and counters. In any case, anything that makes the combat more skill-intensive is good in my book.

This, of course, disregards the Amazon with her bullshit range and maneuverability.

Because I dislike to press specific set of buttons in specific timing to execute an attack that I want to do. I had never said that games with combos can't have good combat otherwise, but the execution of combos itself (pressing buttons in rhythm) is one of the worst gameplay imaginable.

If it makes the gameplay worse then it is bad imo.
 

Cowboy Moment

Arcane
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
4,407
Why do you dislike combos in Blade of Darkness then? It's not like you can stunlock or knock enemies around. In fact, just blindly executing combos with no setup can easily get you skewered if the enemy just dodges the first attack and counters. In any case, anything that makes the combat more skill-intensive is good in my book.

This, of course, disregards the Amazon with her bullshit range and maneuverability.

Because I dislike to press specific set of buttons in specific timing to execute an attack that I want to do. I had never said that games with combos can't have good combat otherwise, but the execution of combos itself (pressing buttons in rhythm) is one of the worst gameplay imaginable.

If it makes the gameplay worse then it is bad imo.

But why is it bad gameplay? I just don't get it. Do you just personally dislike them, or are you trying to make some kind of argument about game design?

See, I used to play a good amount of Quake 3 back in the day (and still occasionally play a bit of Quake Live). Quake 3 required a special strafe-jumping technique where you would alternate directions to maintain high movement speed, and also accelerate well from a stationary position. Learning this to a point where you could use it comfortably in an actual match took a good amount of time, and any kind of competitive play is basically impossible without it. But fundamentally, it's just pressing the right keys with the right timing constantly while making slight adjustments with the mouse. Games where one can alter the direction of their movement mid-air like CS:S or some Q3 mods also involve a different movement technique, where you accelerate by turning.

The point of this example, is that in line with your argument, you could say "strafejumping is the worst kind of gameplay imaginable, because it only involves pressing buttons in a rhythm mindlessly". It's a good thing when action games require you to learn actual technique in order to succeed. Even better if there is a whole spectrum of outcomes, a continuous scale from "awful" to "flawless" which directly influences your success.
 

Kraszu

Prophet
Joined
May 27, 2005
Messages
3,253
Location
Poland
The point of this example, is that in line with your argument, you could say "strafejumping is the worst kind of gameplay imaginable, because it only involves pressing buttons in a rhythm mindlessly".

Yes.

It's a good thing when action games require you to learn actual technique in order to succeed.

I disagree that is one of the real life tedious things that suck.
 

Cowboy Moment

Arcane
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
4,407
Is there any kind of physical activity you approve of as "not tedious"? Just asking out of curiosity.
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
Completed the demo.

Story seemed pretty derp, but I wasn't really listening to any of the dialogue. Generic elves and gnomes + subtitles you can't turn off = No interest from me. Worst thing about it was the combat, man was it terrible. Dragon Age II had much better combat than this.
 

Crooked Bee

(no longer) a wide-wandering bee
Patron
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
15,048
Location
In quarantine
Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I had never said that games with combos can't have good combat otherwise, but the execution of combos itself (pressing buttons in rhythm) is one of the worst gameplay imaginable.

What. "Otherwise"?!

So you just dislike action games and have bad reflexes, okay. I am by no means an expert, and there are people on this forum (like MaroonSkein and Edward R Murrow) who could explain this much better than I can, plus I ramble too much, but... But all your complaints about combos are so wrong... I guess your problem is that you takes combos in isolation -- as a combo, basically, when in fact it's all about the flow of combat. Timing a combo is the easiest thing imaginable, and if you personally suck at it, that just means you won't even be able to scratch the surface of a good action game's difficulty. Sure it can be tedious when you have troubles executing even a single combo! But when you say combo-based combat is inflexible and non-adaptive, that's when the bullshit begins. As a matter of fact, it's one of the prime examples of a flexible and adaptive combat system. Again, the most important thing here is the combat flow -- you present things as if combat in this kind of game started, logically, with executing a combo, i.e., as if it were centred around timing a pre-set button sequence, as if that were the top priority... But that's NOT how it works! It starts with discerning the overall pattern, the full picture and your place in it, figuring out the enemies' patterns of movement, enemy positioning, and most importantly, getting in control of your movements -- being able to move correctly comes first, and experimenting around with combos second -- and getting in full control of the combo system only n-th. Because, believe it or not, in a good action game every combo actually makes sense, so that you can and should figure many of them out on your own, and do it naturally. "Naturalness" is the key to this kind of combat system, which is paradoxical given the nature of a combo, but that's what they're there for. Again, a combo is nothing by itself, yet when the game is well-designed, it fits perfectly in the gameplay -- after all, you are already dancing around the battlefield, and a combo is just one movement in that dance that you must time in perfectly not just within itself, but with all the other movements you execute as well. If you have troubles with a combo, that only means you have problems with action combat as a whole. One flows naturally into the other, and in a combo, you only have to continue doing what you've been doing before: moving around, timing, manoeuvring, surveying the surroundings, and most importantly, adapting -- to how many enemies there are, how they are placed, how they are moving, the patterns of their attacks, etc. (Just like you'd have to adapt to the pit and obstacle placement in a platformer; think of combos as sequence jumps, which should come naturally as soon as you've figured out the full picture.)
 

Gerrard

Arcane
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
12,015
Because I dislike to press specific set of buttons in specific timing to execute an attack that I want to do. I had never said that games with combos can't have good combat otherwise, but the execution of combos itself (pressing buttons in rhythm) is one of the worst gameplay imaginable.

If it makes the gameplay worse then it is bad imo.
Yeah, fuck that, everything should be a separate awesome button.
"Holy shit, practicing how to play a game? What are you, some kind of a super nerd?"
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
But why is it bad gameplay? I just don't get it. Do you just personally dislike them, or are you trying to make some kind of argument about game design?

Because it makes entering fucking commands involve twitching, adding artificial difficulty to the interface, of all things.

Now, I'm meaning strict combos here - like pressing buttons or wiggling shit in predefined order to execute a move. Stuff like Unreal/UT ASMD combo doesn't really count as instead of mindlessly punching in predefined sequence fast it requires you to hit a small, moving target to make it explode.

I'm also willing to accept combos introduced to lessen input overload by allowing limited amount of keys (usually those surrounding arrows or WSAD) to be used for wide variety of actions if they are relatively hassle free.
I may be partial to simulative combos, actually, for example drawing runes and shit to cast spells.
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
Patron
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
17,278
Location
Terra da Garoa
Because it makes entering fucking commands involve twitching, adding artificial difficulty to the interface, of all things.

I may be partial to simulative combos, actually, for example drawing runes and shit to cast spells.

:hmmm:

So chaining three sword slashes to execute a more powerfull slash is artificial difficulty, but drawning magic runes to cast spells mid-battle is glorious immershum?
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
Because it makes entering fucking commands involve twitching, adding artificial difficulty to the interface, of all things.

I may be partial to simulative combos, actually, for example drawing runes and shit to cast spells.

:hmmm:

So chaining three sword slashes to execute a more powerfull slash is artificial difficulty, but drawning magic runes to cast spells mid-battle is glorious immershum?
Do I need to crouch, jump and attempt running forward and backward simultaneously to chain three sword slashes? Probably not.

Would I need to draw magic symbols and shit while making weird gestures to cast magical spells? Likely.
 
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
Messages
111
Do I need to crouch, jump and attempt running forward and backward simultaneously to chain three sword slashes? Probably not.

Would I need to draw magic symbols and shit while making weird gestures to cast magical spells? Likely.

Depends on what you're doing. If you finish a strike and there's an opening, you may need to crouch or move to back of whoever you're fighting with to make sure they go down.

Magic doesn't exist, but if you have to do all this crap to kill someone rushing to kill you it's probably useless

... :M
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
Patron
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
17,278
Location
Terra da Garoa
DraQ said:
Do I need to crouch, jump and attempt running forward and backward simultaneously to chain three sword slashes? Probably not.
I don't get all this hate, combos in good action games like DMC are not that random. You push "sword" + "foward" to do a charge attack, than hit "sword" 3 times to land 3 hits, "sword" + "up" to launch the guy into the air and them "gun" to shoot him. It's a logical combination, not a fucking Fatality.
 
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
Messages
111
The quests I played were basically fetch quests with speech checks to get bigger rewards. Exploration is alright, but you're stuck in one town and surroundings for the demo. NPC behavior seems okay, but I'm pretty sure quest givers stay where they (particularly hilarious in the case where a person has been stabbed and can agonize in front of an inn for hours in-game). You level one passive non-combat skill and three atributes on the three branches (Fighter, Rogue, Wizard) and no significant C&C, but you only have so much time to do things.
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
Patron
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
17,278
Location
Terra da Garoa
Maps are corridors. And you can kill the whole village and go to jail (and lockpick your way out), but some important NPC are immortal, just like Skyrim.

What should have been: Skyrim Graphics, WoW Map & Fable quests + DMC combo system.
What actualy is: WoW graphics, Fable 1 map, Skyrim quests + shitty combo system.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom