Game News Kingdom Come: Deliverance Progress Report: New trailer, alpha access coming on October 22

[Burning Bridges]

I cannot explain that to you

 

[cherry blossom]

Pfff.

 

[Darkzone]

There are some doubts of course as per: to ambitious for its budget etc. and one of Daniel.Vavra previous update was not what you would call "confidence-deliverer" (where he complained how he is lost in managing the growing studio and amount of challenges he is about to face post-kickstarter) but it seems like they finally got the shit together and this update is very good IMO showing a lot of progress. The game is not out for a year or probably more, so it is simply premature to vocalize such comparisons.

There were more than just one update that set me in a panic state. But then again i know the capabilities of czechs and the last two updates have given me my hope back.

Higher Animal
I will fight for your right to say any nonsense that you want, but i will not approve it.
First of all learn the approach of west slavs towards freedom / liberties and rights, then learn why they disapprove the totalitarian states and their history of the last 1000 years. And last of all, learn more about the last 70 years of middle slav europe. And do this, before you make any statement concerning their viewpoint on this things. Chechien is not USA or any west european country, they have a right to say things that goes far beyond the rights of any anglo saxion or any western country.
You have the right to buy or not buy a game for any reason, but not to criticise him for his standpoint on certain things, which is also a product of their history and west slavic heritage. So you Pan Animal, think carefully about it.

This isn't about communism in his former country.

And if you carefull read my statement you will not read the word communism. Take always into your thinking account that your country, is your country. And Czechia is Czechia. Even if we talk in this global village called internet, we still might be living in different countries. And if you even dislike certain ideas in your country, the same ideas might have a different effect in other countries. The context gives a thing a meaning by making the definition complete. And a different country means a different context.
And there is a saying where i come from: What you do in your four walls, as long as it is happening between adults in mutual agreement, does not concern me. And without a victim, there is no crime, therefore there are no thought crimes.
Transferred this means: Your ideas in your country, does not concern me, as long as there are no other victims, besides your own nation. To make other example, that you might understand this at a base level:
Perhaps a libertarian approach in Czechia is a good thing and solves their problems? Or perhaps even in Poland where 99% of the populus are polish, the fascism would be good thing?
As long as this stays in their countries i would give a fuck, and if a pole states than that fascism is good for them, i say: OK. But this has failed in other countries.
The western slavs have a different approach and different problems, and as long as they produce no victims it is their problem, especially if it is connected with a certain history.

LOLbertarians receive inherited wisdom and parrot it back in debate with little sophistication or context. They reject empiricism and natural biology.

And this applies nearly to everyone in a dialog with an other person, like: creationists, feminists, fascists, communists, democrats, republicans, socialists, calvinists, keynesian economists, etc... etc..., you and everyone who is NOT ME.

 

[mikaelis]

cherry blossom Let me explain it in one sentence. Skyrim is shit because the story is just a sketch, i.e., there is no substance to it (e.g., details, believability, continuity, maturity, consequences, depth of characters) - it is a mock-up, a sham, a pretentious "framework" for awesome button mashing and grinding.

There you go.

 

[Burning Bridges]

I'd like to order Knedlik with a Wiener Schnitzel, and a good beer

 

[mikaelis]

There were more than just one update that set me in a panic state. But then again i know the capabilities of czechs and the last two updates have given me my hope back.

Yes, and there was this one (I think it was in the same update) that as per request of some former Skyrim dev working now on D:KC (or was it just a fan request? I don't remember now) he was pondering on letting the players just live the peasant life and plowing earth or making butter or some other nonsense that I only vaguely remember. I mean, it can be a nice distraction for 10 minutes and that is all. If their game systems allow that with less than minimum working effort - fine!, I don't care. But it was not something I necessarily wanted to hear in the update.

But as you said, it seems back on track now.

 

[Neckbeard Shitlord]

I've been following this game for some time and like what I hear. It sounds like what Twitcher 2 was supposed to have been, but I never thought they could get the budget to do it justice. If this is not all some marketing hype then I will be really stoked to get this game.

As for the politics who cares. I agree Neckbeard Shitlord is funny stuff, though. Glad I saw that right before I registered.

 

[Darkzone]

I'd like to order Knedlik with a Wiener Schnitzel, and a good beer

I don't know about the Wiener Schnitzel the recipe was a later invention, but the Knedliky and the Pivo should be in, and this was also a lacking in skyrim. No Pivo in a sandbox RPG? Then it is not a good game.

Yes, and there was this one (I think it was in the same update) that as per request of some former Skyrim dev working now on D:KC (or was it just a fan request? I don't remember now) he was pondering on letting the players just live the peasant life and plowing earth or making butter or some other nonsense that I only vaguely remember. I mean, it can be a nice distraction for 10 minutes and that is all. If their game systems allow that with less than minimum working effort - fine!, I don't care. But it was not something I necessarily wanted to hear in the update.
But as you said, it seems back on track now.

I have the same thoughts about this topic. Milking cows, making butter and plowing fields is not an essential part of a FP RPG. But if they can make it without sacrificing essential parts of the game, then it is fine with me. But certainly i would only do such things, if it is a necessary task within a quest.

 

[Morality Games]

Pfff.

The story in Skyrim is juvenile as a result of the narrative device of the Dragonborn. If you were like a condemned prisoner who escaped due to luck, got caught up in political intrigue due to something you saw or overheard while a prisoner, and then fought your way through adversity with your own strength, then it would be a mature story. Instead you have super awesome powers of destiny.

 

[evdk]

I'd like to order Knedlik with a Wiener Schnitzel, and a good beer

That's a... terrible combination. Knedlík goes with Schweinebraten or svíčková.

Also Vávra might be politically insufferable but I do not see what influence it would have on his game.

 

[Bio Force Ape]

I love this cockeyed hirsute wiking.

 

[cherry blossom]

cherry blossom Let me explain it in one sentence. Skyrim is shit because the story is just a sketch, i.e., there is no substance to it (e.g., details, believability, continuity, maturity, consequences, depth of characters) - it is a mock-up, a sham, a pretentious "framework" for awesome button mashing and grinding.

There you go.

"Details" and the following items (believability, continuity, maturity, consequences and depth of characters) are separate things, then? Alas, they are all just the "details", not the story. Don't be such a teensy angsty idiot about it just because Skyrim is a banal game and you hate it with a passion. See Morality Games post for a relevant and rational answer.

Pfff.

The story in Skyrim is juvenile as a result of the narrative device of the Dragonborn. If you were like a condemned prisoner who escaped due to luck, got caught up in political intrigue due to something you saw or overheard while a prisoner, and then fought your way through adversity with your own strength, then it would be a mature story. Instead you have super awesome powers of destiny.

So your argument hinges on the involvement of destiny (and superpowers?) in an otherwise realistically probable event. Are we to dismiss world literature, ancient and more recent, with individuals with superpowers involved in conflicts and destined to do stuff as juvenile, then?

I admit, dragonbone narrative is rather banal and the way it plays out is juvenile and sad but as a story, I'm not so sure. For instance, is this so much better: During a long-drawn-out war (about a woman), a renowned fighter quits the army on a fucking whim because of a personal quarrel with the king-commander (about more women) and he prays to god for the enemy to gain the upper hand just so the king-commander will want him back in the army (LOL) and the god actually listens (WTF) and the fighter goes back to fighting and becomes a legend, with gods very personally involved at every step of it? That's Iliad.

But anyway, if you find it juvenile at a glance, fine, I guess.

 

[Curious_Tongue]

What do you mean with 'the most banal parts' ?

Morrowind had 4 novels worth of text and dialogue. These worked with the visuals to make a world much bigger than the 14 square km of map, and much deeper.

 

[Darkzone]

@cherry blosssom
Homer did use the means to an certain narrative of a culture that was based on different ideals and beliefs. And with his stories / songs this man made our culture. (If you understand this, then we can talk about his tales and influence on the entire civisation.)
And the case you / Homer describe has happend often in history. Ok without the god that fulfills a wish. Wallenstein is a example for this case. But the case that a first a unknown prisoner escapes and then becomes a savior for the world / country?
Superpowers were always a trademark of the gods or demigods (heros), to use this mean has deminished the figure of the savior that arises from the common people by actions and has rendered the story to a banal fantasy story.
But let us take a look what mikaelis says and how it fits in the context of skyrim.
Questions:
(deppth of characters) Is there a meaningful well described figure with deep thoughts and morals and meaningful actions in Skyrim? .....
(consequences) Do your actions change something in this game, like the politics and behavior of the culture or even the life of some actors or do you suffer some negative consequences because of your actions? ....
If you can answer positive this questions, i will continue and ask the rest of the questions, tomorrow if i'm sober again. ......Skyrims hero / savior gains everything and loses nothing... not a good tale, as Homer would state.....

Curious_Tongue
Ahh you mean that the banal parts are the 4 novels..
But KCD has the real history of this world, watching its back. A inconcequent king / emperor that becomes a victim, that leaves a lost nation, that tries to finds it's way. A vile vicious villain as V would state. Sozial and religious changes and battles for supremecy of two different cultures and expressions of freedom. Etc etc.... I will go now to sleep.... good night where ever you are.

 

[Curious_Tongue]

Curious_Tongue
Ahh you mean that the banal parts are the 4 novels..
But KCD has the real history of this world, watching its back. A inconcequent king / emperor that becomes a victim, that leaves a lost nation, that tries to finds it's way. A vile vicious villain as V would state. Sozial and religious changes and battles for supremecy of two different cultures and expressions of freedom. Etc etc.... I will go now to sleep.... good night where ever you are.

No

Morrowind's strength is the 4 novels

 

[Morality Games]

cherry blossom

There's some truth in what you say, but there's a sharp difference in tone and thematic undertow between ancient Greek myth and Skyrim. At least in the Iliad (which I'll admit is separate from the base Greek myth the poem is based on), Achilles' actions are treated with measured amounts of appreciation (for standing up for the rights of warriors against tyrannical kings) and admonishment (for pushing this protest to dangerous excesses) and existential curiosity (over whether a man would be better off living a long, pleasant life in obscurity or dying young in exchange for eternal glory). Achilles' character typifies human characteristics that are good in most cultural contexts, some that are bad in most cultural contexts, and some that elude straightforward moral interpretation. Contrast, Skyrim's narrative treats the Dragonborn with dramatic reverence.

Like ancient mythology, fiction today is partly a form of wish fulfillment. Japanese are the first culture I know of where genre distinctions calcified primarily around age/gender (Shonen 14-18 Male, Seinen 18-30+ male, Shojo 14-18 female, Josei 18-30+ female). Shonen is far and away the most popular and has significant following in all the other demographics. One thing that sets this popular genre apart from the rest is it consists mostly of heroes that receive some kind of special destiny, usually due to no merit of their own other than their average-ness makes them an all round good guy. Possibly a manifestation of the average man's desire that the cosmos acknowledge that a simple existence is worth living and can be rewarded. Makes sense in the context of a society where all individuals are taught to seek the recognition of others but few have the opportunity to achieve it.

The value of this genre distinction has been making its presence felt in the west since Harry Potter created the teen fantasy adventure and then Twilight added a more elaborate romantic element. Both feature relatively ordinary protagonists with no special talents or powers mostly getting by due to the influence of greater persons and their own destiny.

Skyrim reads along these lines, a typical 14-18 Shonen tale. Maybe a better distinction than 'Mature' and 'Immature' would be 'Adult' and 'Teen'.

Compare Skyrim to Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines. While it is fairly implicit the PC demonstrates tenacity and talent that wins the respect of the Masquerade's elder denizens, he has no particular destiny apart from the rest of the vampiric race and neither the narrative or the supporting cast regard him with any kind of special reverence.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

To add to how KCD is different from Skyrim:

- People already mentioned the story: Skyrim has the typical TES "you are the chosen one, go do your thing" BS, while KCD has a more down to earth/mature approach with you playing a blacksmith who takes up arms in response to historical strife. You'll still influence events in KCD, but the way things turned out historically is set in stone, so your influence is limited within that framework.
- History should permeate everything from story to combat to world design to mini-games and NPC behaviors within development limitations in KCD. In Skyrim, disney world type ideas permeate everything.
- KCD should have detailed NPC scripting, including day and night schedules, going to pubs in the evening, adjusting their schedule when things change. Play the first two Gothic games to see how this impacts the atmosphere and the world. In Skyrim, NPCs walk from their bed to their workplace, and that's pretty much their schedule.
- The combat in KCD is based on historical fencing and designed with the help of practicing fencers, and supposed to be fairly challenging. In Skyrim, the combat is based on some arbitrary BS some developer dragged out of their ass in order to appeal to the lowest common denominator, and is neither challenging nor interesting.
- KCD is using a respectable third party engine (CryEngine3) with in-house motion capture for movement, combat, horse riding. Skyrim uses the abomination known as Gamebryo.
- KCD has a realistic world design approach, with satellite imaging and historical research. Places are placed at realistic distances resulting in a less dense world. In Skyrim, you walk into something every few steps.

BTW, if any of you read Warhose forums, did Vavra ever say why they have that button that auto-blocks all attacks against you? From what I understand, activating it drains your stamina fairly quickly, so it's not meant to be used that much, and they also have a manual block button which you have to time the block/parry with and which initiates a little bullet-time during which you can respond with a prompted counter-attack. The second button sounds much cooler, so I never understood why they have the first one.

 

[Curious_Tongue]

- KCD has a realistic world design approach, with satellite imaging and historical research.

boring.jpg

 

[Curious_Tongue]

- History should permeate everything from story to combat to world design to mini-games and NPC behaviors within development limitations in KCD. In Skyrim, disney world type ideas permeate everything.

If they put considerable effort into the fleshing out the world through writing, I might not play the game, but I won't trash it.

Best I can do.

 

[Dr Schultz]

A couple of years ago I played another shitty game with a block button that blocks all attacks and different angles of attack that's it. If I recal correctly, it's called Dark Souls :asd:...

Of course,exactly the same except for the fact that it's 3rd person ,has a dodge and it has more enemies than man with medieval weapon.

POST A: multidirectional block sucks no matter what.

POST B: multidirectional block doesn't suck together with other features.

Don't take it personally, but that's exactly the reason why one should NEVER EVER get a feedback about an action game here in the Codex.

It's not that you guys are mean, or caustic, it's more like you haven't a single clue about what makes an action game a good action game :asd:....

 

[Alfons]

POST A: multidirectional block sucks no matter what.

I like that you interpret what you read so liberally.The multidirectional block sucks when it is one of two options,block or attack.

I guess drawing comparison to Skyrim was a mistake,I forgot that some people might have different opinions on what Skyrim is but for me the comparison is still a good.

There aren't many first person open world rpgs in a medieval setting and to me those are pretty significant similarities and important features too.Whether the game is as shitty as Skyrim or the best thing that will come out in the next 20 years,it will have similarities to Skyrim,whether the similarities are significant or not to you is another matter.

 

[cvv]

As for Vavra being "libertarian" - majority of young, educated people in "Western" countries are lefties/socialists, majority of young, educated people in post-communist countries are vaguely libertarian, that's just a fact of life.

They're not libertarian in the sense that they're reading Mises and Hayek, follow Cato.org and and Reason.com and meet up every week where they DISCUSS! what they'd learned the previous one. It's more like a general distaste for the State, for taxes, regulations and directives. I guess living in a true dictatorship cures all your juvenile dreams about big benevolent government.

I don't know what Vavra said where, the point is that here his anti-government views are not considered some marginal whacko ramblings, like they're in the West, he's part of a majority. And from what we've seen they've got absolutely no effect on the game anyway.

- KCD has a realistic world design approach, with satellite imaging and historical research.

boring.jpg

What are you even doing in the KCD threads? The same thing you're doing in the Pol threads, I reckon - trolling like a fucking child.
If realistic, non-fanntasy setting is boring for you, then why don't you take your 4 Morrowind novels, go play something nice about evil wizards trying to take over the world and let the adults talk about something the industry rarely produces - a truly mature game?

 

[Burning Bridges]

^This

Yeah baby. Go play your Elder Scrolls shit and let the adults talk.

 

[Darkzone]

Ahh you mean that the banal parts are the 4 novels..

No. Morrowind's strength is the 4 novels

This was a joke from me because i asked you after the banal parts and you stated that this was the 4 novels. Even if it was 10 novels that does not mean that they are good. The historical events is this time in the Bohemian Kingdom are fantastic and filled with everything that a good story needs.

- KCD has a realistic world design approach, with satellite imaging and historical research.

boring.jpg

Ohh. I would state quite the opposite. The story of the game is tied to this real historical place. And the topography of a real world could be quite intriguing in a game.
Also to add that they do not need to fleshing out the world by some writing. The real world is more interesting than anything a fantasy setting can deliver, one has only to open his /her eyes and step outside.

 

[Curious_Tongue]

If realistic, non-fanntasy setting is boring for you, then why don't you take your 4 Morrowind novels, go play something nice about evil wizards trying to take over the world and let the adults talk about something the industry rarely produces - a truly mature game?

Realistic visuals = mature game?

Look, the main reason I'm on this site is my love of Morrowind. I really want to see another game like that.

Morrowind is a bit of an outcast. Causals don't like it, longtime rpg fans don't care much for it. It's like Arcanum in many ways, but unlike Arcanum, it's actually a good game and deserves better.