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KickStarter Kingdom Come: Deliverance Pre-Release Thread [RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Elex

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
2,043
Wow, the lipsync is really off in places. And flaming arrows?! Really?!

German Wikipedia contains illustration of flame arrows from Konrad Kyeser, who funnily enough is actually an NPC in the game. Their use for sieges and setting villages on fire seems to be historically accurate. This is what they are used for in those scenes.

Can't believe they wouldn't check such a thing given the historical accuracy of the game is one if it's main selling points.

Well, yes, but he also painted this:

10be7443d452542e7abfdf56e196fc94--illuminated-manuscript-medieval-art.jpg


Not sure I'd take his word for everything. :))

I always thought that fire arrows had to be shot from underpowered bows at close distances, because otherwise they would extinguish themselves in flight. Apparently, there were others of a newer construction that could be shot from ballistas and such.
Either way, my disbelief was more directed at their use here - shooting villagers and igniting freely available thatched roofs. (seems like a pointless waste of arrows only meant for cinematic spectacle)
shit burn
 

cvv

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ch.
Either way, my disbelief was more directed at their use here - shooting villagers and igniting freely available thatched roofs. (seems like a pointless waste of arrows only meant for cinematic spectacle)

This just shows the more someone strives for authenticity and reality the more buttmad people get about the few islands of poetic licence and dramatic exaggeration that were left in the piece.
 

valcik

Arcane
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
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SVK
The installer question is literally the only difference between GOG and Steam.
Nope, forced third party client installed on your machine with telemetry kicking in makes for second difference. This shit is optional on GOG - you don't want it, you don't install it, sticking with web interface instead.
 

Merlkir

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
1,216
Wow, the lipsync is really off in places. And flaming arrows?! Really?!

German Wikipedia contains illustration of flame arrows from Konrad Kyeser, who funnily enough is actually an NPC in the game. Their use for sieges and setting villages on fire seems to be historically accurate. This is what they are used for in those scenes.

Can't believe they wouldn't check such a thing given the historical accuracy of the game is one if it's main selling points.

Well, yes, but he also painted this:

10be7443d452542e7abfdf56e196fc94--illuminated-manuscript-medieval-art.jpg


Not sure I'd take his word for everything. :))

I always thought that fire arrows had to be shot from underpowered bows at close distances, because otherwise they would extinguish themselves in flight. Apparently, there were others of a newer construction that could be shot from ballistas and such.
Either way, my disbelief was more directed at their use here - shooting villagers and igniting freely available thatched roofs. (seems like a pointless waste of arrows only meant for cinematic spectacle)

Whats wrong with the picture? Not every painting does have to depict reality, as not every painter back then had the urge to strive for realism. Artists exaggerate.


As for your objection to firearrows. Firearrows are basically sticks with feathers. If you only need them to set villages ablaze you wouldnt even need iron arrowheads i guess? Why exactly would using them be unpreferable to engaging your men in close combat encounters with peasents with pitchforks, eventually losing precious manpower in the process?

Well, that's my point. If you evidence for the use of fire arrows is a drawing by this guy, why believe it was not poetic license?

Firearrows are not sticks with feathers, if you want those where the flame doesn't go out in flight, they have to have those hollow ends and/or metal cages with coals etc.
The peasants wouldn't have likely posed any threat to armored attackers, especially since it's a surprise attack. (and indeed they don't)
My point again - why not just shoot the peasants with normal arrows and then easily burn down the village, instead of using potentially unreliable fire arrows and/or wasting them on peasants?

It's not a big issue at all, but the fire arrows would make more sense if they were actually attacking the castle, not the unprotected village.
 

Haba

Harbinger of Decline
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Codex 2012 MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
My point again - why not just shoot the peasants with normal arrows and then easily burn down the village, instead of using potentially unreliable fire arrows and/or wasting them on peasants?

It's not a big issue at all, but the fire arrows would make more sense if they were actually attacking the castle, not the unprotected village.

Back in the military circles we used to call this "live target practice".
 

CreamyBlood

Arcane
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
1,392
I'm just making this up, I don't know my weapons for the period or whatever. But how about just dipping your arrows in pitch or tar or something, lighting it, getting close with a bunch of bowmen with regular arrows as well, then lighting the village on fire.

When they come out out waving their hands as they panic about the fire, shoot them and go mop up with your mercenaries.
 

mildTea

Learned
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
69
I always thought that fire arrows had to be shot from underpowered bows at close distances, because otherwise they would extinguish themselves in flight. Apparently, there were others of a newer construction that could be shot from ballistas and such.
Either way, my disbelief was more directed at their use here - shooting villagers and igniting freely available thatched roofs. (seems like a pointless waste of arrows only meant for cinematic spectacle)

Well here's a pretty good reconstruction of how incendiary arrows were made and shot. You were right about the underpowered draw and distance. Their use for setting the village on fire is definitely overly dramatic and unlikely, but not impossible. They also overdid the flame effect on the arrows, as one would see them rather smoldering than burning.

I'd say it's ok-ish to use it for a dramatic effect in a video game. After all, if it were 100% historically accurate, it would 98% percent boredom and 2% fun.

Also Lindybeige has a rant on it, but he's not always super accurate.

P.S. Kyeser was definitely not ashamed of publishing his fantasies. Why was chastity belt drawn in a book on sieges? Who knows.

437px-Konrad_Kyeser%2C_Bellifortis%2C_Clm_30150%2C_Tafel_15%2C_Blatt_82v.jpg
 

Brancaleone

Liturgist
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
1,004
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Norcia
Well, that's my point. If you evidence for the use of fire arrows is a drawing by this guy, why believe it was not poetic license?

Firearrows are not sticks with feathers, if you want those where the flame doesn't go out in flight, they have to have those hollow ends and/or metal cages with coals etc.
The peasants wouldn't have likely posed any threat to armored attackers, especially since it's a surprise attack. (and indeed they don't)
My point again - why not just shoot the peasants with normal arrows and then easily burn down the village, instead of using potentially unreliable fire arrows and/or wasting them on peasants?

It's not a big issue at all, but the fire arrows would make more sense if they were actually attacking the castle, not the unprotected village.

All good points. Even in the case of attacking the castle, you'd be using 1) specialized arrowheads that are not very effective for anything else; 2) requiring a lot of preparation; 3) shooting them hoping that they fall onto something flammable among a lot of stone, which you probable cannot see from where you are shooting. Using them to set fire to a village's thatch roofs from what has to be relatively short range is a ludicrous waste of resources (and back them actual military arrows were not that cheap), and that's admitting that they actually work.

But the main thing is, in order for them not to fizzle out, you have to shoot them with a low velocity/underpowered bows/low draw, which means you have to get closer to the castle walls than you'd normally do. The main thing in siege projectile warfare is trying to outrange the other guys, and the ones in the fortified position typically already have the elevation advantage.

The Chinese used "fire arrows", but they were basically tubes of gunpowder with a fuse tied to the arrow, which is a quite different thing.
 
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ZoddGuts

Augur
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
213
KCD is the 4th global bestseller on Steam, behing PUBG, Subnautica and Final Fantasy. And that's just preorders.

Solid.

It's been doing pretty well, staying around top 12 in the US and top 10 worldwide over the past few days. It's already looking to be a sleeper hit. Wonder what the total budget it had, if it's 7 Mil, they'll need to at least sell 170K to break even.
 

cvv

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A week until the launch, a huge exposure in the biggest German outlets and YT channels, one of the biggest global bestsellers on Steam....but the big Kwan outlets are still completely silent.

Where are all the standard "10 Reasons Why We're Excited About KCD" IGN marketing articles? Not enough of the budget left for dorritos, Warhorse?
 

mildTea

Learned
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
69
It's been doing pretty well, staying around top 12 in the US and top 10 worldwide over the past few days. It's already looking to be a sleeper hit. Wonder what the total budget it had, if it's 7 Mil, they'll need to at least sell 170K to break even.

Well we discussed in this topic here before:
The PAX footage looks good to me and I'm genuinly looking forward to play the game. However, I'm a bit worried it's not going to make much commercial success. Some calculations:
avg. # of employes: 70
avg. salary: 2500 USD
# months: 60
tech + PR cost: 3 mil. USD
Total cost = 13.5 mil. USD
# Copies to break even at full price: 13.5e6/60 = 225 000 units.

I think the numbers used are pretty conservative. The game will probably break even, but will have troubles to generate enough funding for a sequel or other projects. The Euro-junk tax on US reviews might really hurt here. Well... I hope I'm wrong with my prediction.

# Owners from SteamSpy for some other games:
Elex: 160 000
D:OS II: 1 100 000
PoE: 1 100 000
Undertale: 3 100 000
Prey: 600 000

I also found this on Wiki:
On January 22, 2014, Warhorse Studios launched a crowdfunding campaign via Kickstarter with the goal of generating GB£300,000, ten percent of the US$5,000,000 budget, in order to prove to the investor that there exists an audience and desire for their game. On February 20, 2014, the fund was completed, raising a total of GB£1,106,371.

So that was prediction for the original release date of 12/2015. That's 2 years of development and they added 3 years. So based on that number we have 5*5e6/2 = 12.5 mil. It also assumed a smaller studio so I guess 15 mil. USD as a ballpark number is about as good as the guess can get. This gives us roughly 250k units they need to sell to break even. So let's see. Beating Elex should be easy. Can they beat Prey? Can they get close to TW3?
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
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Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,228
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
lol 250k, you think they get anywhere near the full $60 for a sale? At that budget, I'd peg it at 400-500k to break even.
 

mildTea

Learned
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
69
lol 250k, you think they get anywhere near the full $60 for a sale? At that budget, I'd peg it at 400-500k to break even.
Stupid me, I forgot to factor that in. Thanks for pointing that out.

So assuming Steam takes 30% they need to sell at least 1.3*250k = 325k. Given that Deep Silver recieves a cut as well, 400 - 500k seems quite reasonable. So they need to do better than Prey. Does anyone know what was Prey's budget? Quick Google search didn't reveal anything.
 

cvv

Arcane
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IF - and it's a big IF - the game is not overly buggy and doesn't get a stamp of buggy trash from the get go I think it's pretty likely it'll sell a couple of million copies in the next few years, after all the positive reviews, LPs, streams and sales are done with it.

From what I've seen the production values are high, the acting is great, the music is epic and the graphics stupendous. For most gamers nowadays as long as those boxes are checked the market response is good, regardless of gameplay, combat, systems and all that minor stuff noone gives a shit about. I can see the Witcher 3 crowd buying it just for the cutscenes and I'm not even joking.
 

ZoddGuts

Augur
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
213
A week until the launch, a huge exposure in the biggest German outlets and YT channels, one of the biggest global bestsellers on Steam....but the big Kwan outlets are still completely silent.

Where are all the standard "10 Reasons Why We're Excited About KCD" IGN marketing articles? Not enough of the budget left for dorritos, Warhorse?

Warhorse is better of giving free copies of the game to Youtubers and Twitch players. Larian did this with D:OS and got a lot of attention because of it, it's only after that the gaming media started to give attention to D:OS. Doesn't matter how small the channel may be, wherever if it's 100K or 20K subscribers, I'd still help get the word out on the game. Also isn't Warhorse self publishing the game on Steam? Thought Deep Silver is only publishing the physical copies/console version of the game.
 

Paul_cz

Arcane
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Messages
1,996
A week until the launch, a huge exposure in the biggest German outlets and YT channels, one of the biggest global bestsellers on Steam....but the big Kwan outlets are still completely silent.

Where are all the standard "10 Reasons Why We're Excited About KCD" IGN marketing articles? Not enough of the budget left for dorritos, Warhorse?

Warhorse is better of giving free copies of the game to Youtubers and Twitch players. Larian did this with D:OS and got a lot of attention because of it, it's only after that the gaming media started to give attention to D:OS. Doesn't matter how small the channel may be, wherever if it's 100K or 20K subscribers, I'd still help get the word out on the game. Also isn't Warhorse self publishing the game on Steam? Thought Deep Silver is only publishing the physical copies/console version of the game.
Yeah as far as I know money from steam direct goes only to Warhorse. On GOG I am not sure. Retail copies is where Deep Silver takes a share.
 

The Wall

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck Zionist Agent
Joined
Jul 19, 2017
Messages
3,017
Location
SERPGIA
6kOQMaN.png


Finally a game that rewards the fine folk of the Codex!

https://www.exophase.com/game/kingdom-come-deliverance-psn/trophies/

You could be virgin whore or virgin womanizer. Basically flerting with everything wearing skirt (just hope there won't be any Scottish merchants in Bohemia) and reaching almost the last base only to realize one step before crossing Veneral Rubicon that peasant girl, merchant's daughter or queen's cousin is unworthy of esoterical meeting with Him. Your trusty companion. Trust me buddy, you deserve better, tells him Henry. No, no she's fine, let me talk with her a bit, replies Him. Sorry, this is for your own good, return back in pants, orders firmly Henry. Henry sheats him and leaves yet another woman in tears while hoping on horse and going to inn to wash his mouth and cleanse his body from talking with a woman, a whore.

True Codexian larp.

468px-Henry_armour.jpg
 

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