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KickStarter Kingdom Come: Deliverance Pre-Release Thread [RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Paul_cz

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KCD will be too small and too European for the big Kwan outlets to even register, let alone make it GOTY. Afaik Elex and D:OS2 are coming out too, both of which are pretty much the same story (also Elex will be 95% shit).

I guess for once most GOTYs are gonna go to action shit like Destiny 2, Red Dead Redemption 2, Last of Us 2, HZD - these are the biggest blockbusters I can think of.

Right, I did not meant to imply that I expect KCD to win GOTYs. Too small marketing budget, too niche setting, plus every journalist is jizzing themselves over Zelda.
Still, it and Vampyr are the only AAA RPGs coming this year. Elex is going to be most likely total shit and is not AAA (not surprising since Piranha has like 20 people now) and Divinity is just...well..Divinity.

Check out my last post with edits. And now tell me truthfully graphics advanced enough in 10 years? Now go and compare those images to games from 1997.

Yes we get it, since Crysis 1 the graphics development has slowed down. Thank you captain obvious. Does not change the fact that KCD has the most photorealistic forests rendered in realtime to date.

BTW Mordhau may looks as great as it wants, but as long as it is a fucking multiplayer slasher, it gets zero interest from me.
 

cannondwarf

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KCD will be too small and too European for the big Kwan outlets to even register, let alone make it GOTY. Afaik Elex and D:OS2 are coming out too, both of which are pretty much the same story (also Elex will be 95% shit).

I guess for once most GOTYs are gonna go to action shit like Destiny 2, Red Dead Redemption 2, Last of Us 2, HZD - these are the biggest blockbusters I can think of.

Right, I did not meant to imply that I expect KCD to win GOTYs. Too small marketing budget, too niche setting, plus every journalist is jizzing themselves over Zelda.
Still, it and Vampyr are the only AAA RPGs coming this year. Elex is going to be most likely total shit and is not AAA (not surprising since Piranha has like 20 people now) and Divinity is just...well..Divinity.

Check out my last post with edits. And now tell me truthfully graphics advanced enough in 10 years? Now go and compare those images to games from 1997.

Yes we get it, since Crysis 1 the graphics development has slowed down. Thank you captain obvious. Does not change the fact that KCD has the most photorealistic forests rendered in realtime to date.

BTW Mordhau may looks as great as it wants, but as long as it is a fucking multiplayer slasher, it gets zero interest from me.
How is KCD a AAA-game? It's made by a new studio with no previous releases, and it's from a setting that doesn't appeal to normies AT ALL
 

cvv

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How is KCD a AAA-game? It's made by a new studio with no previous releases, and it's from a setting that doesn't appeal to normies AT ALL

AAA are being made by new studios all the time. Like Bioware Montreal apparently.

Anyway it looks much more expensive than anything Bethesda ever produced and Bethesda shit is the epitome of AAA among journos. So yeah.
 

cannondwarf

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When I think AAA I think big marketing budgets and games catered to normal consumers. They're not necessarily bad, but they've usually got a lot of QoL improvements over their indie counterparts. Think Witcher 1 compared to Witcher 3.
 

Klarion

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This game is trying to be everything instead of just, you know, being one thing, a simple RPG... I mean they're way too ambitious... and since it's not an AAA title with a 100 million budget it will fail miserably. I just don't see how this can possibly work...
 

Darkzone

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Can't wait to defeat my full-plate-wearing opponents with few sword cuts. So fucking "realistic".
In KCD you can only bring then down with sword cuts for a coup de grace. But yes the combat is not realistic, and people should not call it realistic.
 

cvv

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Can't wait to defeat my full-plate-wearing opponents with few sword cuts. So fucking "realistic".
In KCD you can only bring then down with sword cuts for a coup de grace. But yes the combat is not realistic, and people should not call it realistic.

Then again what is realistic. A while ago I read someone from the HEMA community saying we don't really know what actual medieval fencing looked like. We have only a rough idea. Thing is when HEMA masters spar today their goal is not to harm or kill their opponent, just to lightly touch some critical points on his body. That changes the entire dynamics of the combat.

One suggestion is real combat wasn't really as fast as you can see on Youtube today. If all you need to do is just lightly touch your opponent you move much faster than if you actually need to stab him or cut him with a substantial force. And all the HEMA group championships are a complete theater since things like stabbing are outright prohibited.
 

SmartCheetah

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Didn't knew the thing about coup-de-grace in KCD.
Not that I'm looking for realism in games. I'm just having a laugh while someone states that "This game is so realistic! You can even throw a pommel!" (see Mordhau comments section on youtube, lol) while you can clearly see in the combat trailer that few random sword swings made a guy squirt blood everywhere and basicly destroyed him.

Hard to argue about that because we really don't know much about actual medieval fencing, but using logic and some reenactment experience tells me that those cuts would barely hurt the guy and end up as bruises.
 

Merlkir

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Can't wait to defeat my full-plate-wearing opponents with few sword cuts. So fucking "realistic".
In KCD you can only bring then down with sword cuts for a coup de grace. But yes the combat is not realistic, and people should not call it realistic.

Then again what is realistic. A while ago I read someone from the HEMA community saying we don't really know what actual medieval fencing looked like. We have only a rough idea. Thing is when HEMA masters spar today their goal is not to harm or kill their opponent, just to lightly touch some critical points on his body. That changes the entire dynamics of the combat.

One suggestion is real combat wasn't really as fast as you can see on Youtube today. If all you need to do is just lightly touch your opponent you move much faster than if you actually need to stab him or cut him with a substantial force. And all the HEMA group championships are a complete theater since things like stabbing are outright prohibited.

Thrusts are routinely allowed and used in HEMA tournaments. What you're paraphrasing sounds more like HEMA's critique of sport fencing.
The thing is, more and more fencing books are getting translated, more people do more sparring and technique testing. We can't ever be sure about very specific stuff, sure. But we have a fairly good idea about the basics of human to human fighting with melee weapons.
Last point I wanted to address - it doesn't take a huge amount of force behind a sword to cut a person enough to cause substantial injury, especially if they're not wearing armour. Velocity is more important than anything else for penetration.
 

Darkzone

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Didn't knew the thing about coup-de-grace in KCD.
Not that I'm looking for realism in games. I'm just having a laugh while someone states that "This game is so realistic! You can even throw a pommel!" (see Mordhau comments section on youtube, lol) while you can clearly see in the combat trailer that few random sword swings made a guy squirt blood everywhere and basicly destroyed him. Hard to argue about that because we really don't know much about actual medieval fencing, but using logic and some reenactment experience tells me that those cuts would barely hurt the guy and end up as bruises.
"This game is so realistic! You can even throw a pommel!" aka "smite them righfully" is the essence of the martial arts frauds on the same level of Aikido. Why do you need an enemy to disarm you, if you can do it yourself. And yes Mordhau looks retarded as hell, especially the decapitations of knights in plate armor. In stiff plate armor you shouldn't feel a thing besides beeing push very hard ( dependend on the weapon ) in a certain direction. I speak here from my years of Kendo experience, where the Doo (made of wood) protects from hits to the body.
Soft armor does transfair the force of the blow to the body and you can feel it quite well and even a flexible shinai can hurt a lot. I had a lot of bruises on my hands (Kote) from training with beginners. A bokken hit could easy break some bones or even kill you if you are hit on the head (Men) even in armor (only thick cloth). I don't know how much the gambesons protected against hits on a chain mail, but i don't think that it absorbed the majority of the force.
In my humble opinion the best depiction of a fight in game is in Examina.

Last point I wanted to address - it doesn't take a huge amount of force behind a sword to cut a person enough to cause substantial injury, especially if they're not wearing armour. Velocity is more important than anything else for penetration.
Ok there is something very fundamentally wrong in this statement, despite the fact that there is also something very correct in this statement:
Force F = dp/dt = d (mv)/dt or F = dv/dt = ma. (a = acceleration, v = velocity, m = mass, d = delta, p = impuls)
Force is acceleration times mass.
Double the mass results in doubling of the energy , but double velocity equals 4 times the energy. The enery is the W (work) needed for the cut, and W = Fs (Force x time). E (energy) = 1/2 mv^2.
Therefore if you make a very fast swing with a sword (ma) you have a lot of force for a short time (t).
But yes you don't need a lot of force to cut though a human with a sword.
 
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Merlkir

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Right, I kind of mixed terms there.
To clarify - to cut a person, a quick tap which might seem light to an observer is enough.
Even penetrating armour doesn't require massive swings, rather an efficient technique to achieve enough velocity.

As an example: a youtuber called Thegn Thrand has been promoting several implementations of thrown blows for some time now - with spears, swords, axes, you name it. (he didn't come up with it, iirc Roland Warzecha and a few other HEMA people suggested it before him)
A lot of HEMA youtuber lore used to go like this: You have to have proper technique and then you can cut soft targets cleanly. But swords do not (with some exceptions made for that purpose) penetrate almost any armour.

Along comes the cast blow and shows that by really flinging the tip of the sword into a cut, you can cut through layered cloth armour, sheet metal and even damage riveted mail. (which was unheard of)
Similarly - some Youtubers (like Lindybeige) absolutely reject that spears were ever used in the overhand grip. Again, by testing a thrown thrust, it was shown to be incredibly powerful, enough to penetrate armour even with a wide bladed spear.

HEMA is evolving. There are fads, there are myths, there are blind alleys, but we're always getting an ever better picture of what's possible and how things work.
 
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Jimmious

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
They have Brian Blessed as voice actor?? Wow

MV5BMTczMjA3NTQxNV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwNDU5OTMxNzE@._V1_.jpg
 

Quillon

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"We didn't want to...well, take an arrow to the knee"

Shots fired...well, tho it won't reach the earshot of Bethestard.
 

cvv

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"We didn't want to...well, take an arrow to the knee"

Shots fired...well, tho it won't reach the earshot of Bethestard.

The only thing Todd Howard has been hearing for the past 10 years is the great slurping sound of the American press sucking his cock dry 24/7.
 

Darkzone

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Sep 4, 2013
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A new video update, this time exclusively about actors and cutscenes. Very promising IMO. Seems they got at least that side of the game nailed.

If i wouldn't have pledged towards it in KS, i would have now certainly pledged for it. Fuck this is so good: the church and the painted ceiling in the monastery. And Blessed is a blessing for this project (Henry VIII as Earl of Suffolk, Henry V as Exeter, Robin Hood as Lord LocksleyThe Bruce as King Edward, Hamlet as Ghost, King Lear as King Lear and most important in The Black Adder as Richard IV.) No honestly you damn funny speaking Czechs bring tears of joy and pride into my eys.
You did not wanted to stay behind the CDP with TW3 and have put one on top of the stack.
 
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Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.pcgamesn.com/kingdom-come-deliverance/making-of-kingdom-come-deliverance-cutscenes

How Kingdom Come: Deliverance's blockbuster cutscenes are being brought to life

Once upon a time making cutscenes for a game didn’t involve three directors, nearly 60 actors, an in-house motion capture studio, a proprietary 3D scanner and a dedicated department of animators. This certainly wasn’t the case when cinematic director Martin Klekner joined Kingdom Come: Deliverance eager to help create trailers and videos for the marketing team by messing about in the game engine. That was back in the days when the game was still a Kickstarter campaign rather than a feature-complete medieval RPG with over 80,000 backers. In those three years Klekner’s role has changed in kind: “I was meant to be the trailer guy and ended up being the cinematic director.”

From Brian Blessed’s role as a mad German military engineer to the cutscene improvements that have been made since the beta, we spoke to Klekner and PR manager Tobias Stolz-Zwilling to learn how the game’s cinematics are being crafted. This coincides with Warhorse Studios’ release of their latest development update on the game’s cast and cutscenes, which you can watch above.

PCGamesN: Were there any games with particularly great cinematics that inspired you?

MK: I think the closest inspiration is probably in Ryse: Son of Rome because it runs on CryEngine, so the look is pretty similar, plus they have pretty great cutscenes. On the very first day I entered Warhorse I started studying the way that the guys at Crytek did their cutscenes for Ryse and tried to emulate it. In the end we talked to our art director and we decided, because Ryse wasn’t as historically proper as we wanted to be, that to make it more realistic we’d do it with less colour and none of this cool stuff and explosions happening. So we just copied their technique, not their style.

kingdom%20come%20deliverance%20mocap%20team.jpg


How was it working with two other directors?

There were three directors on set. Daniel Vavra, who of course wrote the script and knew the characters best and how every actor should play his role. Then there was the technical direction, which was up to me - that involved telling people how and where to stand and what they should be looking at. Every time we shot we just had this grey room and I had to tell them that over here there’s a castle, and over here there’s this other thing that’s important for the story. So that was my part of the job, plus I helped direct some cutscenes any time that Dan couldn’t make it in. Also there was John Comer, who was basically our translation guy and voiceover director. He was there during the shooting of the motion capture to make sure the actors were saying their lines the right way, or to keep them from making some historical inaccuracy.

How do you go about putting the cinematics together?

We put all of the animations together, which we have a whole other department for, then we put that into the world of Kingdom Come: Deliverance, the engine, then tried to figure out where to put this guy and this guy, and where to put the cameras.

But before the motion capture process we took the environment and exported it into our animation software to learn the measurement of the environment - if the character leaves the room, we need to know the dimensions for where the door is, or how far away some point of interest is. We then recorded the cutscene, put the motion capture that we recorded into that environment and tried to make it work, and then we created the cutscene cameras. We gave that to our animators and asked them to animate in accordance with the cutscene. And always there’s some back and forth.

Jingdom%20come%20deliverance%20henry.jpg


One thing I did at the beginning is that I took Dan Vavra’s story and put it into storyboards and put them all over my wall, but soon enough there were so many comics on my wall, so many pages, that I couldn’t fit it on my wall. Everyone comes into my office and thinks this is all of the storyboards for the game, but in reality I could never fit that into my room. We have up to four hours of cutscenes. I didn’t count the duration of cutscenes that were cut, but I think it was an additional two hours.

How important are cutscenes to Kingdom Come: Deliverance?

I definitely think that Dan Vavra, who wrote the story with his team of designers, he built the game upon the story. The game wouldn’t make sense without the story. At the beginning it’s almost linear because there’s so much story that you need to be led through in this world, and then at one point Henry is unleashed into the open world. Even then though, Henry is guided in a similar way to that of The Witcher, he is guided by the main quest from one point to another - every time something happens, there is a cutscene.

kingdom%20come%20deliverance%20mo%20cap%20studio.jpg


One thing that surprised me from the dev blog is the sense of humour in some of the cutscenes.

TS: The cutscenes allow us to tell the historical side of the world with some jokes, with some more detail, with some visual input for the player. Something like an interactive history lesson. It’s not just what king did what, it’s funny situations and so on.

MK: We watched the cutscenes in their entirety two weeks ago and we were very surprised at how much funny stuff there is in there. Only now do we realise that half of it is epic stuff and the other half is funny.

TS: With the cutscenes we’re dealing with real historical NPCs who really lived in this place. But we don’t know how they talked or behaved acted or spoke, we have some writings but we had to come up with how they act and walk. We had to add this personal experience to these characters.

MK: I have a feeling that if the game will be known for something it will be those funny scenes, those politically incorrect scenes.

What’s changed with the cinematics since the beta?

In the beta there really wasn’t much to show in the cutscenes, they weren’t epic or that interesting when compared to the full game. So when I finished the cutscenes for the beta I had this feeling that it’s not what I want to deliver for the final game so I knew that we would have to step up our game. Fortunately, the material in the full game is a lot more epic, there’s a lot more Lord of the Rings stuff. So now we’re wrestling with the facial animations, lighting and crowd simulations, so we’re still trying to improve that, but I think that just the raw story and cutscenes will be much better than what you see in the beta.

kingdom%20come%20brian%20blessed.png


How was Brian Blessed to work with?

Brian Blessed came into our voiceover studio because he couldn’t make it for our motion capture performance so we had another actor play his movements, and then when Brian Blessed came he could already see the cutscene so he was basically dubbing over it. But yeah, it was great, it was like having this eccentric elderly man, telling all of those awesome stories that he tells. He was a great professional and it was an honour directing him. His character is this eccentric German siege engineer, and he’s always dreaming about new things to create and build but in our game the elite really don’t have much money, so every time he comes up with something they say there’s not much they can do about it. There’s a lot of comedy about these situations and he pictured it very well. It was great to work with him.

How did you maintain a sense of historical authenticity on set?

John Comer and Dan Vavra talked a lot about this, about how characters would talk and behave. At the beginning we thought we could just get all English actors because it sounds historic, but we are based in Prague so there’s not many English actors, so when we did the casting we realised that to have good actors and for all of them to be British was too much, so we threw in some American accents, even some Australian actors, but we don’t think it’s too noticeable.

kingdom%20come%20deliverance%20custscene.jpg


We had long sessions with the actors trying to explain every little detail. Often when they came into the studio for the first time they were very surprised that we were trying to do the game with this level of historical accuracy, but I think having myself, Dan and Comer alongside who know the era very well we were able to catch and correct issues on set.

Finally, what has been the most difficult part of the process?

Everything? I think that working in the limited conditions that we have here. We don’t have a huge production here and we try to make the best of it, which was great because it was like an adventure, but at the same time it was a curse a lot of times because every step of the way we were learning new things and that held us back. So definitely the limited conditions, and also trying to make the epic story work in them. For example, our motion capture studio was like five by six metres and our actors needed to be running around for like 20 metres, so we had to tie a lot of the animations together.

TS: At one point we had to move the entire mo-cap set five floors down to a concert hall to film the fighting scenes.
 

Darkzone

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You did not want to stay behind the CDP with TW3 and have put one on top of the stack.
Well if the final game is well written, beautiful, with awesome actors and music and completely shitty gameplay it will equal Witcher 3 perfectly in every way.
But then it will have more value for me, because it is set in an historical setting with an approximation towards medieval times and shows the beauty of our culture.
 

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