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KickStarter Kingdom Come: Deliverance Pre-Release Thread [RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

SlamDunk

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Two Twitter threads about the game from a Good Old Games employee who got to play it:

https://twitter.com/outstarwalker/status/916345740514988033
https://twitter.com/outstarwalker/status/916611387312541696

Made a quoted version with KCD tweets only (in chronological order):

@outstarwalker said:
Kingdom Come didn't look amazing - graphics felt a bit outdated - but it felt right artistically. Authentic medieval architecture ftw!

I don't know what gear they used to present KC:D, but framedrops and even few second freezes were happening very often.

Every little action - taking things from shelves, picking flowers, jumping above fence - has its special animation. Nice touch, but it will take way too much time if you need to pick, let's say, 15 flowers. Hope you won't need to.

Maps took few seconds to load and we found couple of hilarious glitches. Let's hope they will patch it before release.
@outstarwalker said:
Kingdom Come devs invited us for a special private presentation of the game. They bought us, more in the thread below!

Same build as yesterday, played on i7 laptop without any frame drops and freezes. Game was running super smoothly.

Battle system is fun with wounds inflicted into body parts and affecting gameplay. Bang in helmet = hearing problems etc

If you ever visited Czech or Polish country you'll feel right at home. Architecture, foliage, even distances - horse riding was pure fun

Fun thing: if you wander off quests, npcs will do them for you and be mad at you. No lollygagging

Potentially, you can finish big part of the game slacking around while other people do your job and get mad at you.

Tons of ways to finish quests, it seems, and you can avoid fighting in most parts. Level up persuasion or haggle by using it over and over.

You CAN cheese the system and learn to fight greatly by constantly training on dummies.

Each ability has its sub-abilities. For example, drinking can give you sub-ability of not losing your equipment after passing out completely

Game seems "logical". For example, steal apple, sell it to any merchant. Steal famous jewelery - you gotta travel FAR to be able to sell it

It's not Witcher where you can wander off of an important meeting to play Gwent for hours with no consequences.

There will be time for free roaming but when someone waits for you, keeping them waiting will end up with different dialogue options etc.

Also riding horse in plate armor at night around people's houses will make them hilariously mad. :D
 

Paul_cz

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DLh1KTTW4AEHJrF.jpg:large



*ded*
 

Quillon

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Fun thing: if you wander off quests, npcs will do them for you and be mad at you. No lollygagging

Potentially, you can finish big part of the game slacking around while other people do your job and get mad at you.

Instead of straight up: time's up = failing the quest without any reactivity. Could be a revolutionary incline, depending on how fun the repercussions. Also they could be giving too much time to do any given quest...so the timer(invisible timer :P) is just there for the sake of it...tho something tells me they won't.

Needs precise :balance:ing tho.
 
Last edited:

Bohrain

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My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
expensive Adidas jacket

Please make it an easter egg.

Also curious....did you guys find it hard to balance the economy? I don't think I can recall an RPG that got the economy right and I've been playing RPGs since the early 1990s. Usually from mid-game on you're so rich you could buy all the land on the world map with half your gold.
Yes, it's extremely hard but I can't say where we are for 2 reasons. (a) I honestly don't know because my focus is elsewhere and (b) game economy is being balanced until the last minute so it's a subject to change. And since the complexity is almost impossible to model you usually have to use more random approaches which in turn eliminate any stronger sensation of convergence with any "ideal".
The other big trouble is with open-world games which feature any kind of perpetual respawn because it means there's a constant inflow of new valuables, be it XPs (for kills) or items to sell. These games allow for farming to completely fuck up any balance in the economy. So what counts as a game with well balanced economy in such cases? Usually the player rarely has to spend any money except when there's a useful but costly money sink.

I can recall 2 games with sorta well tuned economy
Gothic 2
Fallout: New Vegas
Gothic 2 held well enough for about 70% of the playtime even when you tried to minmax the game. Gothic 2 was so well balanced for the very fact it had no respawn. All the amount of money and XP in the world was finite and they balanced the economy around that fact. It's also one o the rare cases of games where I've ever bought a weapon from a vendor.
FNV isn't nearly as good but it worked well if you didn't minmax because it had a big money sink in the form of repairing (the rarer the weapon the more you had to use the expensive NPC services). I remember struggling with resources even considerably late in the game. Balance of the survival mode was a joke though. And RPG balance was all over the place.

I think the general issue is the way game economies operate has very little to do with how it's supposed to work in economic theory.
Generally speaking games have fixed prices with or without small modifiers, assets that don't wear down, goods produced without labor or capital inputs and every trade is initiated by the player.
If you wanted to simulate real economy you would have to assign differing utility functions to every NPC, determine what input is necessary to produce goods, define the wear and tear rate of every asset, define what transaction costs are faced (if any), define the labor capabilities of NPC's and through that determine whether they should engage in theft, assault, labor, investment or trade. And if you wanted to be fancy about it you'd also implement information asymmetries and externalities.
It's just that the simulation approach requires much more work, players don't necessarily ask for it and the developers haven't necessarily read much about economic theory.
 

passerby

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Economy simulation could make sense in a game of Mount&Blade scale.

Discussing it in the context of this game is retarded.
 

Quillon

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Love the Burzum T-shirt Vavra is wearing in this interview. Good interview, by the way.

https://www.gamereactor.eu/news/593703/Have+mercy+or+go+brute+in+Kingdom+Come+Deliverance/

At last I heard the same argument I've been making against "magic" in RPGs. If you look at other entertainment industries there are lot of historical movies, series etc like he said, all without magic, and there are a lot of modern settings without magic also and people love them, and at least a part of them plays games and when they see a game announced like KDC they say "finally someone is doing it". It doesn't always have to be urban fantasy, victorian fantasy, medieval fantasy and whatnot, if you leave out the fantasy they can still be fucking interesting!
 

cvv

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At last I heard the same argument I've been making against "magic" in RPGs. If you look at other entertainment industries there are lot of historical movies, series etc like he said, all without magic, and there are a lot of modern settings without magic also and people love them, and at least a part of them plays games and when they see a game announced like KDC they say "finally someone is doing it". It doesn't always have to be urban fantasy, victorian fantasy, medieval fantasy and whatnot, if you leave out the fantasy they can still be fucking interesting!

Plus ofc Assassin's Creed is 95% fantasy-free history and it's one of the most successful IPs ever created. There are some SF/fantasy elements but most people actually hate it. For years crowds of fans have been badgering Ubisoft to remove the shit about gods nad majic and stick to pure history.

Yeah, it's really puzzling why game devs never tried to go for a straightforward historical setting, given how super-popular historical movies, TV shows or novels are.

Same for contemporary settings btw. How awesome Police Quest was? Also super-popular. How difficult it'd be to make an RPG from a present-day police setting? You'd start as a lowly patrolman, steadily raising through the ranks, later on you could join DEA, FBI, ATF or even mafia....don't tell me people wouldn't be interested. Really, game devs are locked in a paradigm, lacking some serious out-of-the-box thinking.
 

ERYFKRAD

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At last I heard the same argument I've been making against "magic" in RPGs. If you look at other entertainment industries there are lot of historical movies, series etc like he said, all without magic, and there are a lot of modern settings without magic also and people love them, and at least a part of them plays games and when they see a game announced like KDC they say "finally someone is doing it". It doesn't always have to be urban fantasy, victorian fantasy, medieval fantasy and whatnot, if you leave out the fantasy they can still be fucking interesting!

Plus ofc Assassin's Creed is 95% fantasy-free history and it's one of the most successful IPs ever created. There are some SF/fantasy elements but most people actually hate it. For years crowds of fans have been badgering Ubisoft to remove the shit about gods nad majic and stick to pure history.

Yeah, it's really puzzling why game devs never tried to go for a straightforward historical setting, given how super-popular historical movies, TV shows or novels are.

Same for contemporary settings btw. How awesome Police Quest was? Also super-popular. How difficult it'd be to make an RPG from a present-day police setting? You'd start as a lowly patrolman, steadily raising through the ranks, later on you could join DEA, FBI, ATF or even mafia....don't tell me people wouldn't be interested. Really, game devs are locked in a paradigm, lacking some serious out-of-the-box thinking.
There's a German cop-sim out there, but then it's quite dull.
 

Quillon

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Especially RPG devs have D&D hardcoded in their brains and they can't go too much away from it it seems.

Same for contemporary settings btw. How awesome Police Quest was? Also super-popular. How difficult it'd be to make an RPG from a present-day police setting? You'd start as a lowly patrolman, steadily raising through the ranks, later on you could join DEA, FBI, ATF or even mafia....don't tell me people wouldn't be interested. Really, game devs are locked in a paradigm, lacking some serious out-of-the-box thinking.

LA Noire was pretty hard to make and could have been an RPG with more work :P
 

Haba

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Fantastic elements simply give you more tools to play with in a cRPG. Low-fantasy no-magic settings are harder to work with since you can't simply copy stuff that is tried and true, you'll actually have to think outside of the box.

Like having multiple perks related to drinking.
 

Iznaliu

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Yeah, it's really puzzling why game devs never tried to go for a straightforward historical setting, given how super-popular historical movies, TV shows or novels are.

The issue is that people have certain expectations for an RPG, and breaking them would lead to a loss in sales.
 

AwesomeButton

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History offers an uncountable multitude of excellent plotlines waiting to be adapted, unlike the regurgiated fantasy tropes which incapable writers keep trying to "subvert", "reinvent", etc.
 

Plisken

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History offers an uncountable multitude of excellent plotlines waiting to be adapted, unlike the regurgiated fantasy tropes which incapable writers keep trying to "subvert", "reinvent", etc.

No kidding, and the full scope and range of human behavior and character is far more interesting that the typical hollywood derived contrivances we get in video game writing.
 

AwesomeButton

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It's amazing how many years we can keep going by Tolkien's inertia, with just a few bright exceptions. For some reason everyone is convinced that putting elves and dwarves in will suddenly make his drivel interesting.
 

cvv

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It's amazing how many years we can keep going by Tolkien's inertia, with just a few bright exceptions. For some reason everyone is convinced that putting elves and dwarves in will suddenly make his drivel interesting.

Even more amazing is if you read, say, Silmarillion today it STILL completely blows everything written afterwards out of the water. It's not even in the same universe despite 60+ years writers had to refine and improve the formula. Compared to Tolkien 99% of other high-fantasy stuff looks like knuckle-dragging, low-talent fan fiction.
 

AwesomeButton

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It's amazing how many years we can keep going by Tolkien's inertia, with just a few bright exceptions. For some reason everyone is convinced that putting elves and dwarves in will suddenly make his drivel interesting.

Even more amazing is if you read, say, Silmarillion today it STILL completely blows everything written afterwards out of the water. It's not even in the same universe despite 60+ years writers had to refine and improve the formula. Compared to Tolkien 99% of other high-fantasy stuff looks like knuckle-dragging, low-talent fan fiction.
The trick to blowing everything out of the water is a decade or so of academic studies, and then - talent, in interpreting and constructing with the building blocks that your studies gave you :)
 

Iznaliu

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It's amazing how many years we can keep going by Tolkien's inertia, with just a few bright exceptions. For some reason everyone is convinced that putting elves and dwarves in will suddenly make his drivel interesting.

Even more amazing is if you read, say, Silmarillion today it STILL completely blows everything written afterwards out of the water. It's not even in the same universe despite 60+ years writers had to refine and improve the formula. Compared to Tolkien 99% of other high-fantasy stuff looks like knuckle-dragging, low-talent fan fiction.
The trick to blowing everything out of the water is a decade or so of academic studies, and then - talent, in interpreting and constructing with the building blocks that your studies gave you :)

Additionally, he constantly refined everything he was doing over his lifetime, unlike other writers who said "good enough".
 

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