Kerbal: why are you so broken?

[SymbolicFrank]

So, I tried it once again.

The good:
- Some of the must-have mods are now standard.
- The simulation is a bit more realistic.
- There are some new mods and creations, especially from Galileio88.
- It is more stable.
- Finally, a usable 64-bit executable!

The bad:
- Most of the standard, must-have mods only work partially, and still aren't all that compatible with one another.
- The scale is still only 10% of real-life!
- You still cannot see how your rocket will perform before you launch it!
- There is no way that I know of to see how high/fast a stage will get you.
- No way whatsoever to simply say: "Get me in a circular orbit as high as possible with all the stages up to x".

The ugly:
- Most of the great mods are abandoned, because the creators are hired by Valve.
- Most of the other mod creators lost interest.
- It is still only playable when heavily modded.

Everything else is still the same.

So, while there is more than just a manual rocket exploder, that is still the main thing. If you want Science!, or to conquer the solar system, look elsewhere.

 

[Burning Bridges]

First of all, the mod section of their forum is the definition of insanity.

I think they came pretty far from a charming little joke sim to blow up crazy rockets in a physics based environment (who couldn't still remember how we made our first rockets and tried to reach escape velocity with just 2 types of engines?)
but they totally underestimated how far down the road the Unity engine would bite them in the ass.

So I really dont know what to say .. Kerbal Space Program was a test case for all of us and everyone became a whole lot smarter, but seeing it as a piece of software something inside begs me to never go there again.

I see lots of other options, be it Orbiter 2016 or Rogue System (or maybe Hellion or Osiris New Dawn), though sadly none has the flexibilty of KSP. Just please nothing with little green muppets instead of astronauts, I'm sick of this shit.

 

[Burning Bridges]

So, I tried it once again.

The good:
- Some of the must-have mods are now standard.
- The simulation is a bit more realistic.
- There are some new mods and creations, especially from Galileio88.
- It is more stable.
- Finally, a usable 64-bit executable!

64 bit is an absolutely necessity, loading KSP with mods takes 20 times longer than booting windows now.

The bad:
- Most of the standard, must-have mods only work partially, and still aren't all that compatible with one another.

They are in sort of a perpetual rat race with the main game version, and it became retarded at some point.

- The scale is still only 10% of real-life!

there are mods that fix that

- You still cannot see how your rocket will perform before you launch it!
- There is no way that I know of to see how high/fast a stage will get you.

rocket science is really no rocket science as soon as you have Mechjeb and the various deltaV calculators.
Through KSP I also got to a point where I could calculate deltaVs in Excel and optimize my stages down to the kilogram.
Retarded? Yes.
But it was fun, until they added so many parts and engines that I kinda lost track even with Excel and my own C# programs, there is just too much of it now.

- No way whatsoever to simply say: "Get me in a circular orbit as high as possible with all the stages up to x".

This is actually very easy by editing the savegame. You just need the orbital parameters from another savegame, and copy them in a text editor.
In fact this is the only practical way I suggest for really massive spaceships because the proper way to get them up with the sad instability and massive partnumbers required, is just retarded.

 

[Destroid]

It's probably mods (using a mod pack provided by a friend) but I have something that gives a UI element in the builder to show the T/W ratio (full & empty) and delta-V of each stage.

 

[Drax]

Kerbal Engineer?

 

[SymbolicFrank]

Yes, Kerbal Engineer is a must-have mod, but deta-v by itself is only half the picture. You need at least a delta-v chart as well, and MechJeb isn't really smart enough to handle multi-staging after the first big push out of the atmosphere.

And I'm using Galileio's planet pack, at 6.4 times the scale (with SMURFF). That's about the same scale as the real Solar System. You need ~10k delta-v to get into LEO (which starts much higher than stock, as the atmosphere extends further). And with delta-v requirements that are ~3 * stock it's really pushing it unless you install the full Realism Overhaul, which hasn't been updated for the last half year. So, many components will conflict with one another.

 

[SymbolicFrank]

This is actually very easy by editing the savegame. You just need the orbital parameters from another savegame, and copy them in a text editor.
In fact this is the only practical way I suggest for really massive spaceships because the proper way to get them up with the sad instability and massive partnumbers required, is just retarded.

Yes. I just switched to 3.2 * stock scale, because 6.4 doesn't really work. Procedural parts and Tweakscale are required in any scale over stock.

 

[Endemic]

Does RSS work without a supercomputer yet?

 

[SymbolicFrank]

... and now everything crashes all the time, again...

That's generally when I stop playing.

Ok, I updated everything and started a new game, but that didn't help. You have to uninstall everything, reinstall, install all the mods and then never change anything anymore if you want to play for more than a few hours.

GRR!

Total playtime this session: less than 10 hours. Time spend modding it (and fixing stuff): about the same. And this was a "light" session, with as little mods as bearable.

 

[Burning Bridges]

This problem is a problem with all simulation games that start something great but then stop too early and as a consequence, are lacking too much. As this gets you into a hamster wheel fixing stuff that then requires new fixes itself, and you must actively work on the game for days before you can even begin playing, you need to make an assessment what you are actually doing and make conclusions.

There were even case when the modding became the actual game and I stopped effectively when I was finished modding. Now compare this with KSP .13 and how much fun we had landing on the moon for the first time, when KSP modding wasnt even really invented.

 

[Thane Solus]

... and now everything crashes all the time, again...

That's generally when I stop playing.

Ok, I updated everything and started a new game, but that didn't help. You have to uninstall everything, reinstall, install all the mods and then never change anything anymore if you want to play for more than a few hours.

GRR!

Total playtime this session: less than 10 hours. Time spend modding it (and fixing stuff): about the same. And this was a "light" session, with as little mods as bearable.

Did they got bought by Paradox?

 

[Beastro]

So much of this is the problem with any game that relies heavily on mods and has kept me from looking into some again, like Rimworld. I love the game but everytime I think of reinstalling it the modding process makes me wince.

 

[Prime Junta]

There is a realism conversion for those of you who don't like the 1/10 scale and easier physics. Good luck flying anything without MechJeb on that one though.

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/155700-122-realism-overhaul-v1151-06122017/

 

[SymbolicFrank]

Ok, So, I'm a die-hard. (And it was that, as research for my game, or implementing complex math). So, I reinstalled everything. And started a fresh career mission. While I always play science or sandbox.

I just completed two rescue missions. And, I'm NEVER, EVER, GOING TO DO ANY AGAIN.

Ok, so I did install all the EVA stuff, like jetpacks. And, they don't work, as they take fuel from the ship the Kerbal is in, and those have no fuel...

So, I had to edit those in the save game, which is irritating, because it takes a while before you find the right setting. Those save files are huge.

Well, it might be different if those ships had any kind of docking port! But the only way is to EVA them.

Anyway, after many tries, first to find out how the Fuck to control them, and then setting the jetpack power to 10%, it was still almost impossible to control them. Mostly, because it is impossible to press two buttons for the exact same amount of time. And there is no way to do 10N this way, and then 10N that way.

So, you will always spiral out of control.


I hate it when games take the control from me.


And I really, Really don't like it that RCS is really hard to control as well. MechJeb cannot handle it, either.

 

[Beastro]

So, I had to edit those in the save game, which is irritating, because it takes a while before you find the right setting. Those save files are huge.

Do you use something like Notepad++ for the added search functions to make navigating it easier?

I edit Paradox save files a ton to help tweek things in game to keep AI factions competitive (Like dumping a stockpile of resources into major factions so it's not just me building warships and tanks) and I found it really helps cut down on the time needed to find what I'm after. IIRC, it also doesn't like regular notepad, but it's been so long since I stopped using that I've forgotten.

 

[SymbolicFrank]

Yes, I always use Notepad++, but the files aren't structured enough for the extra functionality.

There's also HyperEdit for Kerbal, but that makes it too easy.

 

[Beastro]

Yes, I always use Notepad++, but the files aren't structured enough for the extra functionality.

There's also HyperEdit for Kerbal, but that makes it too easy.

Editing save files... too easy?

Surely you jest.

 

[SymbolicFrank]

Yes, I always use Notepad++, but the files aren't structured enough for the extra functionality.

There's also HyperEdit for Kerbal, but that makes it too easy.

Editing save files... too easy?

Surely you jest.

No, I mean, with the Kerbal Hyper Edit plugin. It gives you an in-game menu to change everything on-the-fly. Like, from the launchpad to a random orbit anywhere at the click of a button. And back.

 

[Drax]

But if you are going to use it to do the same that savfile editing but quicker... what's the problem?

 

[SymbolicFrank]

Well, if you make it that easy, don't bother playing the game. Because you will lose interest after the second launch, or the first landing on the moon.

And there really isn't all that much interesting to do in space, in Kerbal. Unless you think computers have never been invented, and you need radio control for everything. Which is even more stupid than manual flight control.

 

[Drax]

But, as I understood it, your problem was that you thought jetpack fuel worked in some way and it didn't so you ended up stranded in orbit, so you edited the savefile to give yourself some fuel back, right?
That's why I said that if you only use HyperEdit for that kind of stuff, there's no more "cheating" than there is with savefile editing.
Maybe I got it wrong, explain please.