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Kerbal Space Program

Prime Junta

Guest
Oh, KSP will keep going, no doubt about that, with or without Squad.

It's still a bummer though. That was a good team and 1.2 is a really good release.

At this point I don't give a shit about alternatives. I don't want combat in my space program. There is stuff I don't care for in KSP, but almost all of that is either already addressed by mods (Atmosphere Autopilot, FAR, KER) or just stuff that they haven't gotten around to doing yet (life support, a better balanced career). I really dig what KSP wants to do -- i.e. take actual real rocket science, orbital mechanics, physics, and what have you, remove all the dull stuff, and tune the numbers so you can do wacky fun stuff that stupid real-world physics don't let us do.
 

Jaedar

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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Well, it's not like Squad could have kept patching and improving the thing forever.

I just hope they make a proper stable release before they end it.
 

Hellraiser

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Novasilisko said it best on his twatter profile:

tenor.gif


Holy shit, not that unexpected that somebody left. But the scale is surprising. I think it is safe to say 1.3 will never happen. Mu was the last person who actually knew the code deeply, with C7 and Harvester already gone, the know-how is gone. There's no way in hell they can revive this and develop any new content, expansion packs or sequels. Any new dev has too much catch-up to do to take over the code.

It's clear the two cunts running squad milked the hell out of the devs. I mean FFS, Squad got an invitation to the White House for KSP's contributions to popularizing Astronomy. Who went there? The two owner dudes you barely heard about ever, the same ones who also used the profits to fund their pet projects and registered the IP in some tax haven for some reason. I bet Harvester and the others were extremely pissed about this because it was their success, not some marketing cunt's who made a lucky guess that one of their employees hobbyist project might be worth bankrolling. In addition to the working conditions and pay.

I wonder what Harvester is doing, I could swear he ended up working on some project with one of the other devs.
 
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Hellraiser

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In other news 1.2 was released a day or two ago. I have been playing the pre-release for a week or two and I have to say the update is pretty solid, a nice epitaph to the game. Of course, the Squad propaganda machine claims more free content, expansion packs and whatever are coming. But we'll see in six months if they manage to revive the shambling corpse of a development team. If you ask me, at best they can try to milk it with official mods masquerading as expansions, because they have 0 people on payroll who could actually touch the source code and make meaningful additions or modifications to it.

So here's some pictures and impressions.

09ksp%204.png~original


Some much sought difficulty options have been added. Kerbal G-force tolerance has been added after a very long time. Some of the contracts available in career mode actually focus on making sure some dumb tourists pass out in orbit or flight. Likewise regular tourists won't pay shit if you make them go unconscious (unlikely).

Also there are part g-force limits and pressure limits, the latter applying possibly to supersonic flight I guess.

Kerbals level-uping immediately is a nice optional toggle, as it was a pain to have them return from Jool to level up from xp. Although now this toggle isn't as useful for those deep space multi-year missions, as the Science Lab part has become even more useful by also enabling level-uping kerbals.

Part upgrades is something Porkjet was working on, or at least the models. Basically nodes in the tech tree would also increase the performance of some parts, more thrust/isp, less mass, that sort of thing. They would also change the model of the part slightly. But Porkjet quit so it is unlikely the new models will be available any time soon. The backend is in the game but no stock parts use it, modders however could.

Plasma blackout for communications is for re-entry. This option makes probe-science returns quite difficult. I will illustrate this with an example, so far I keep losing the science jr. materials bay all the time, because I can't control probes during re-entry. So it gets ever so slightly exposed to plasma heating it up until it explodes with only the parts of the probe stored just behind the heat-shield surviving. So basically I will need to use bigger diameter heatshield to ensure the parts are in the shadow. Also no control without signal makes things also difficult for probe-returns. You will need to adjust your return trajectory sometimes to be in range of one of the DSN stations (if those are enabled) when in atmo, as those do not have 100% coverage everywhere on Kerbin. A pity probe cores can't pick-up relay signals without dedicated antennas (they can pick up DSN signal directly, so that you can control them before it is safe to deploy antennas after launch).

Forcing resource transfer to obey crossfeed rules is another nice option, if you want to force slightly more realistic designs.

09ksp%203.png~original


This is the Vulcan-II Rocket. Here used to deliver a probe to Minmus. I also used it to deliver a science farming Mun lander to my Munar Space Station which I will show in a second.

I noticed they added some nice cosmetic tweakable options for fairings, such as enabling truss support-structures inside the payload.

09ksp%201.png~original


My Mun Station in all its glory. It begun as a cash in on a "Station around Mun contract". The contract was standard fare, 5 kerbal capacity, power source, docking port and an antenna. Oh and 3k units of power storage capacity.

Thanks to the new-ish mk1 spaceplane passenger modules it is easier to reach the (silly) crew requirements cheaply and lower in the tech tree. I decided that the station initially will serve primarily as a Comms Relay for Munar probes. Later to be expanded to serve as a Science Lab and Refueling depot for the sample gathering expeditions.

09ksp%202.png~original


The core is the piece with the plane passenger modules, here it was before I jettisoned the cruise stage that got it to Munar orbit. It had two functioning docking ports for now, after jettisoning the cruise stage I realised that a third one was hidden under the decoupler. In my brilliance I have realised during design that I will need at least 3 docking ports if I wish to expand the station.

The core serves mostly as a relay, with a secondary function of storing kerbals. Although ironically enough, they cannot exit or enter the core directly, as the passenger plane parts lack doors :M. I may need to add an airlock module I guess. Would be cool if we got some ground/space station parts, but that is unlikely to happen now in stock due to the dev desertion wave. Oh well, mods will fix it.

Also it is currently the main power supply and power storage module. However power storage had to be expanded, more on that below.

The first and so far last module to be added is a science lab. Because it is the best way to get science in the game, at the same time forcing you to do expeditions. It also features an obscene number of batteries, because I got a station expand contract (added in 1.1 I think, they also added adjust position of spaceship and survey near craft contracts which make satellites with extra Delta-V and Rovers/Planes a bit more profitable). The contract itself said I need to double the power storage capacity and kerbal capacity. I got the power capacity part done. The Kerbal storage part will be covered with the second module to be added.

Also the lab got attacked with its cruise stage, some backup antennas and most importantly, the cruise stage fuel tanks. So it acts as a small fuel depot. Or will once I send a tanker up there.

There's also the new lander, it has just barely enough delta-v to do some plane-changes (but not too much) plus land, return, rendezvous back at station. The station is in a fairly high orbit of 833 km above the Mun so its not that easy to get back to it. The altitude was by design as I wanted to have longer comm windows for probe landings when the station is overhead, so a slower longer higher orbit on the relay, so that I do not get comm blackout suddenly when landing (this happens and I have the "no signal no control" difficulty option on).

The lander's role is to get as much science data from the surface back to the orbiting science lab for research. Lab research is the best source of science in the game after all and does not overlap with returning data to kerbin (or suffer from diminishing returns at all IIRC). Better than sending 6 probes to different Mun biomes for sure (what I did before I unlocked and launched the lab). Also they added new biomes to places outside of Kerbin. The biome maps for Laythe, Duna, Eve and the rest outside of Kerbin's SOI were a bit underwhelming after all in past updates.

With the cruise stage ditched, I plan on doing the following with the Mun station:

1) Adding a docking Hub/Hab module after I unlock better solar panels at the docking port that was attacked to the cruise stage. Basically I need to have more power for research production and transmission. Also this is for future modules. The other bottle-neck the current station has is the number and size of docking ports. I do not plan on having any other Munar stations so adding compatibility with larger docking ports and the ability to dock more stuff is crucial. Also some more hab room for kerbals to get contract cash (they need to tone down the ridiculous crew requirements in these contracts).

2) New more advanced relay antenna and/or resource scanner and/or probe core. The resource scanner is a must as I will mine the mun for ore, the one question is if it adds more KerbNet functionality or if I need a new antenna or probe core as well. FYI KerbNet is stock scansat-like functionality, only instead of needing to scan the planet to get a full map, you get data for the area for which your sat network has currently coverage. But it does everything scansat does, including heightmaps, "anomaly"/Easter egg revealing. Oh, and it allows you to place waypoints (sadly no distance to waypoint functionality has yet been implemented AFAIK)

3) Refinery/fuel depot module. Pretty high up in the tech tree. This depends on the ore processing scheme I will choose though. The most efficient one is refining on the surface and sending the fuel back up I think. At any rate I want to refuel the lander and interplanetary explorations vessels here. Minmus is easier for a depot though.

Other stuff I might do if I install some mods:

A) Orbital Gardens for resupply using the USI Life Support mod. Of course, I will probably have to edit the mod files again to make the supply consumption rate reasonable. And to allow fully-sustainable ground bases via ore conversion into mulch+fertilizer (I will need to mod this into the parts).
B) More power in the form of a nuclear reactor, plus radiators to prevent a core meltdown of course with Near Future Nuclear (or Electric? I forgot.). Also may include some new cool-looking futuristic space structural truss from the Near Future Construction or Spacecraft mod.
 
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vean

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Jan 3, 2016
Messages
296
Part upgrades is something Porkjet was working on, or at least the models. Basically nodes in the tech tree would also increase the performance of some parts, more thrust/isp, less mass, that sort of thing. They would also change the model of the part slightly. But Porkjet quit so it is unlikely the new models will be available any time soon. The backend is in the game but no stock parts use it, modders however could.
Sounds like a bad idea anyway. I want to understand a rocket by looking at it without having to guess what tech the player was at.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
Re probe re-entry, it's easy to solve by designing your re-entry module correctly. It just has to be aerodynamically stable, and you need to set your chute to auto-deploy at the right (=low) altitude. That way you don't need to do anything as it re-enters.

Also, science lunchbox. Science Jr is much more fragile in 1.2 anyway, to get it down in one piece you'd need significantly more parachutes than before (or legs, retro-rockets, or something else to cushion the fall). I just jettison it after collecting the data into the lunchbox. (Additionally, for small re-entry modules, the lunchbox makes a useful stabilising "tail.")

Edit: example stable re-entry probe module: 1.25 m heatshield -> Okto probe core -> battery -> lunchbox -> chute.
 

Hellraiser

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I did the second station expansion. It was a bit challenging to launch the solar panels, scanner and hab modules as one payload. Docking them was not that hard though, even managed to make the panels mostly aligned with the axis of the station.

ksp%201.2%202.png~original


The scanner module was attached to a small probe core with RCS, some solar panels+batteries and a docking port. Now that thing was very fucking unstable and I barely managed to dock it.

Of course I completely forgot the scanner works only in polar orbit, in which my station is not. :rage:

ksp%201.2%203.png~original


I decided I will undock the scanner at a later point and boost it using another vehicle to a polar orbit. Best opportunity for this came up when I unlocked the 3-man pod and got a contract to send 3 tourists around the Mun, with one of them demanding a landing. I sent them using a new manned ship to the Station, the ship itself was over-engineered, so I could also use it to refuel the Mun Expeditionary Lander and boost the damn scanner module into a polar orbit (good thing it had a probe core, anetenna and reliable power supply/storage).

ksp%201.2%201.png~original


After the tourist got back from the surface I sent him back to the 3-man ship and begun preparation for the polar orbit boost of the scanner. Luckily the station was in an 800 km orbit, so plane changes are fairly easy from there.

Hardest part was getting the tourists back alive. I think I crashed their capsule into the ground at least 4 times and made them go unconscious once. Main problem was lack of comms coverage, I have only two relays above Kerbin so the probe core that piloted them went offline, because the landing zone had no coverage.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
I've started a no-labs career because labs are so crazy OP that they kill the fun for me -- I don't want to max out my tech tree in a single interplanetary mission. I dialled the science rewards back up to 100% though.

It's fun. I'm having to think up more complex missions to get the science -- in the early-ish career where I'm now, I did biome-hopping on Minmus and, a first for me, a rover/skycrane combo which can also recover the rover, and tested that on the Mun (three biomes in one landing, woo). All based on the magic of the Science Can which makes it possible to collect experiments from multiple biomes in a single mission.

Next up is another new type of mission for me. I want to make a science lander probe that's as light as feasible and carries all the science except Sci Jr and Mystery Goo (because they're heavy and not reusable). Then I want to send a mission to Jool where I remote-control the probe from a Mk 2 command module in orbit, and do a grand tour of the system.

Tentative vessel configuration:
  • Lander probe - as light as possible, with maximum science per weight, and science can
  • Orbiter module - Mk 2 command pod with two pilots and a scientist, Sci Jr and Mystery Goo, enough fuel to let the probe do multiple missions on several of Jool's moons, and have enough for the return trip. Will see if I can set it up with discardable tanks so I'll have a minimum of mass to haul back.
  • Booster module - just a rocket that'll get it to Jool. I'll see if I can set it up with discardable tanks so I can lighten the load after the acceleration burn.
  • Return configuration is just the Mk 2 pod with the science can detached from the lander, and a booster ofc.
Open questions:
  • Can I make the lander Laythe-capable without adding too much mass?
  • Can I make it survive aerocapture by Jool? It would require a somewhat creative configuration since a heatshield is necessary. Maybe put one between the booster and the orbiter, and discard the booster prior to aerocapture?
 
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Unwanted

jcd

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Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Bubbles In Memoria
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Jaedar

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
9,880
Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
I've started a no-labs career because labs are so crazy OP that they kill the fun for me -- I don't want to max out my tech tree in a single interplanetary mission. I dialled the science rewards back up to 100% though.
Pretty much. Deploy a single lab anywhere off-world and by the time you make it to mars and back it will have unlocked the entire tech tree for you already.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
THEY FUCKED IT UP!!!!!!

Why do my parachutes fail to function after short atmospheric entry? I fly up to ~70km and when it's time to open them they're red and unusable. wtf is this shit?

You're going too steep. Fly in a shallower arc so you have more time to aerobrake before deploying them.

(They did change the drag model so it's quite possible that something that used to work in 1.1 no longer does in 1.2. I've adjusted my reentry corridors up by about 5k -- Pe 40 instead of 35 for command pods and such, 55 instead of 50 for spaceplanes.)
 
Unwanted

jcd

Punished JCD
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Messages
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Location
UNATCO HQ
Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Bubbles In Memoria
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Unwanted

jcd

Punished JCD
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
10,681
Location
UNATCO HQ
Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Bubbles In Memoria
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Prime Junta

Guest
Jesus, and now antennas stop transmitting in the middle of a message. I swear, they're trying to ruin this game as hard as they possibly can.

There's an option for that. "Require complete."
 

Prime Junta

Guest
Making progress on my Jool grand tour plan. Going to test my Miniproob on Duna first before going for Laythe.

Z4hjfa9.jpg


There's a "turban" on top of the stack. It has a 1.25 m heat shield, a structural bit with four radial 'chutes on it. The probe also has a tail: octagonal struts with simple fins. The probe itself is very light with lots of dV, certainly enough for Duna, possibly enough for Laythe as-is, but that may mean more research.

The heat shield will do its thing as well as produce a nice detached shockwave that ought to protect the rest of the craft. The tail will keep the probe stable during re-entry so it won't spin out during the comms blackout. When the comms blackout ends, I'll jettison it, at which point aero forces will flip the craft to point in the opposite direction. Then I pop the chutes and float down, with a touch of retrorockets at the very end if needed.

I trialed this with sub-orbital launches on Kerbin and it works great.

What I don't know is if the heat shield will produce a sufficiently wide shockwave that it'll shield the entire assembly for a Jool aerobrake. I will need to research that a bit more. If not, I can always replace it with the 2.5 metre version and a longer tail to match; I'd rather not though because those things are heavy.
 

Elim

Augur
Joined
Feb 15, 2011
Messages
330
Project: Eternity
The flickering UI bug is really going on my nerves. Any guess when 1.2.1 comes out?
 

DDZ

Red blood, white skin, blue collar
Patron
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Messages
1,829
Location
Under the Gods
Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
Started playing this again yesterday, I've always giving up after dicking around for an hour or so.

Enjoying it so far, but I am kinda stuck after getting stuff into orbit, just not sure what to do, I suppose Mun is next?

Anyone that feels like giving me some guidelines?

Like what is the logical progression,

-Getting stuff into orbit around Kerbin
-Going to Mun & back
-Satellites?
-Space stations?
-Rovers?

In what order?
 

Prime Junta

Guest
Started playing this again yesterday, I've always giving up after dicking around for an hour or so.

Enjoying it so far, but I am kinda stuck after getting stuff into orbit, just not sure what to do, I suppose Mun is next?

Anyone that feels like giving me some guidelines?

Like what is the logical progression,

-Getting stuff into orbit around Kerbin
-Going to Mun & back
-Satellites?
-Space stations?
-Rovers?

In what order?

You're in orbit (and back alive, presumably?) Congratulations, that was one of the hardest parts. You've officially cleared Level 1.

Level 2 stuff you can do in rough order of difficulty:
* Mun flyby + orbit
* Minmus flyby + orbit
* Orbital rendez-vous + docking
* Minmus landing + return (easier if you know how RV+docking works)
* Mun landing + return (yeah it's harder because of the deeper gravity well)
* Build a comms network with keostationary sats

Level 3:
* Orbit & return mission to Duna
* Orbit & return mission to Eve
* One-way probe landing mission to Duna
* One-way probe landing mission to Eve
* Return mission to Ike
* Return mission to Gilly
* Return mission to Duna

Level 4:
* SSTO space planes capable of lofting serious cargo to LKO
* As above, but to the Jool system (landings on satellites of your choice)

Level 5:
* SSTO space plane mission to Laythe
* Eve return mission
 

Drax

Arcane
Joined
Apr 6, 2013
Messages
10,986
Location
Silver City, Southern Lands
The missions/quest can give you some semblance of the standard progression but your're not tied to it.
 

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