Ken Levine's next game is "open world-ish scifi-ish RPG"

[Volrath]

I don't like how Ken disowned Bioshock 2. Out of the trilogy, it's probably the only Bioshock game which feels like an actual game. Characters kinda suck, but it has actual mechanics that you can employ to play at your own pace.

Did he have anything to do with it? I was under the impression it was developed completely independently of him. I thought the gunfights and feel of the weapons in 2 was the best of the series (and BS:I got it all wrong) but I found all the repetitive "boss" fights in every area (clear the area of splicers -> clear the area of Big Daddies -> survive splicer onslaught as you gather ADAM -> fight Big Sister) got tiring real quick. In retrospect, much better than BS:I though.

I guess that's the reason why it's the only Bioshock that isn't complete and utter shit.

 

[Zarniwoop]

Besides, Levine had little to do with SS2, he was just taking notes. That was all Spector.

Warren Spector had zero involvement with System Shock 2. It was Ken Levine's game but with heavy input from Looking Glass Studios.

The overall structure of SS2 and BioShock is pretty similar, right down to both games starting in a "Med-Sci" level.

I should have phrased that better - the System Shock universe and concept is from Looking Glass. System Shock 2 only expanded on that, it's the same setting, same mechanics and same style of game.

And really, both games starting in a medical level therefore their structure is similar? According to your logic then Wolfenstein: The New Order is also exactly the same game because it starts a hospital. It's also not true in the first place because Bioshock starts in the bathysphere arrival section/port, if you don't count the intro part (the lighthouse).

I was a big fan of SS2 which is exactly why I was pissed off that Bioshock was nothing like it. It's like you lot now suddenly telling me Fallout 2 and 3 are the same. They're not and that's exactly the problem.

 

[Infinitron]

Well, Fallout 3 does take a lot of story cues from the first two games. Tim Cain even complained about that, saying Bethesda should have been more original.

It's not as similar as Bioshock is to SS2 though

 

[Perkel]

Well, Fallout 3 does take a lot of story cues from the first two games. Tim Cain even complained about that, saying Bethesda should have been more original.

It's not as similar as Bioshock is to SS2 though

What cues ? I mean sure starting in vault and water problem seems similar but other than that they are completely different.

 

[Zarniwoop]

9/10 you bastards got me.

 

[Roguey]

Plenty of literal-minded autism itt.

 

[Akratus]

Well, Fallout 3 does take a lot of story cues from the first two games. Tim Cain even complained about that, saying Bethesda should have been more original.

It's not as similar as Bioshock is to SS2 though

What cues ? I mean sure starting in vault and water problem seems similar but other than that they are completely different.

Well there was the Super mutants, Enclave, Water Plot, Power Armors, Brotherhood of Steel, Vaults, Harold, and more I'm probably missing.

 

[mondblut]

Kubrick, sci-fi-ish... Clockwork Orange would make one hell of an RPG. Walk the streets beating and raping passerbys.

 

[Cazzeris]

System Shock 1 also started in a hospital level.

 

[Telengard]

Haha you fell for a Roguey post.

But Roguey wasn't even trollin'. The similarities in story, structure, character, character interaction, level design gating, weaponry, sound effects, etc etc etc were even noted by the clueless reviewers of the time in their reviews. Levine even lost a bit of credibility for copying the story lock, stock, and barrel - right down to the same events and revelations. As stated, Bioshock is simply a clone of SS2 (if a stripped down version cor consoles).

Which makes Levine the Louis L'amore of developers. And Bioshock the Hondo* of gaming.



* It's also a movie. In 3d. Starring John Wayne.

Yes, a steampunk-ish console corridor shooter has exactly the same weapons and level design as a non-linear space sci-fi shooter with rpg and survival-horror elements.

I especially loved how the customisable laser guns in System Shock 2 and comprehensive inventory system are totally the same as a steampunk shotgun that you can extensively cutomise by putting a different gear on the back through the totally non-existent inventory system.
Yeah the story of a wannabe Ayn Rand impersonator that cannot into Objectivism and gets himself into a civil war - I can totally see how that's the same as a crazed AI taking over a ship and wanting to shape reality into her weird nightmare. Exactly the same.
All the characters in Bioshock, yeah totally the same as SS2 where there are none whatsoever. Much similar interaction, so steal, wow.

The only thing that is even remotely similar, is that both are first person shooters and both have a shocking revelation that your friend isn't really your friend. Oh and both had regeneration chambers. Nothing that matters is even remotely the same.

Besides, Levine had little to do with SS2, he was just taking notes. That was all Spector.

Since I am lazy, I will google this for you, but I will take the first result, and not search for the "best". I include a taster, but the site has many more examples. Plus, I put in a bonus video just for those who don't like to read.

http://www.systemshockbioshocksimilarities.webs.com/

Both of the games story start with vulnerable amnesiacs, summoned for unknown purposes and guided by seemly trustworthy characters.

in Bioshock Atlas

and in System Shock 2 Dr. Janice Polito

.

Taking their orders and adapting into hostile unknown environments. Bioshocks environment taking place in the underwater city of Rapture, System Shock 2’s upon the Von Braun spacecraft.

Both of these environments also used to harness scientific genius and upon some form of scientific discovery, Bioshock’s discovery being ADAM/Plasmids and System Shock 2’s being the eggs of The Many. Both of them seemingly take over the environment and lead everyone and everything into a state of madness.

The trustworthy characters are revealed to be others in disguised voices, both with an intention to control the environment for their own purposes.

Bioshocks being Frank Fontaine

disguised as Atlas

.

System Shock 2’s being SHODAN

disguised as Dr. Janice Polito

.

Both who thematically, turn out to be dead.

The revealed characters in general are also the cause of the madness, SHODAN being the supposed creator of the ships roaming Hybrids and general mother of

The Many.

Who eventually take over the Von Braun. Frank Fontaine, being the supposed creator of Splicer’s and general usher of the ADAM fuelled Plasmid business, which in the long run without going into to much detail, is pretty much responsible for everyone’s general insanity. Actions of civil war are also present in both games.

In the end, both uncovered characters reveal you have been under their control and have become their monsters. In Bioshock, Fontaines (genetic) monster due to the excessive use of his Plasmids or genetic modifications. Also, in System Shock 2, SHODAN's (cybernetic) monster, due to the usage of her Cybernetic Implants.

In the end, you destroy the main opposing characters.

In Bioshock Ryan

and Fontaine

.

In System Shock 2, The Many

and SHODAN

.

For small details, Ryan explains in the beginning of Bioshock that he had created Rapture, free of petty morality. In System Shock 2, SHODAN explains on her reveal that she had created a new form of life, The Many, with no moral constraints. Ryan in Bioshock expresses similar insults, statements and literal intensions as The Many and SHODAN do in System Shock 2. Fontaine also does so, in comparison with SHODAN.

 

[himmy]

I like how the people on RPGCodex complain about how new RPGs aren't like old RPGs, while also complaining how games in other genres are too much like old games in that genre. Always gets me.

 

[Jaesun]

I like how the people on RPGCodex complain

That's what we do here. Now get the fuck off my lawn.

 

[Metro]

 

[Mustawd]

RE: video...

This might be a tad unfair, but I've never heard someone sound so pretentious in the first five minutes of hearing their voice.

 

[Xathrodox86]

It'll be a cinematic corridor shooter in space.

I'm sorry Ken, but we're on to you by now.

At least he does them right.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

At least he does them right.

No. Not even that. For a game to be done "right" they need to be enjoyable, there needs to be motivation to continue. I had to struggle to finish the first one when I played it, I needed two attempts on the second.

System Shock 2, by comparison, is a joy to play, even though I've done it several times already.

He's a one-trick pony who's already played his trump card. He's got nothing left.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

He's a one-trick pony who's already played his trump card. He's got nothing left.

It's better to have Ken keep trying (and failing) than some deranged SJW newfags already set out to fail with their non-brain, non-ambition and non-talent.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

In this comparison I'd rather put my money on the newfags, mostly because of the "1000 monkeys and 1000 typewriters" analogy - even though the chances there are mighty slim.

 

[GlutenBurger]

These story comparisons between SS2 and Bioshock are really very silly. The SS2 story would be better described as 'passable' than 'excellent.' It's the atmosphere that held it together, along with some flawed-but-workable mechanics.

I'm also surprised by the suggestion that Bioshock 2 was significantly better than the first. Both games are hobbled by infinite respawn and respec. I distinctly remember Bioshock 2 in particular being gutted of any challenge with the 'strategy' of constantly shooting bee swarms wherever you go.

 

[Explorerbc]

Mandatory

 

[Infinitron]

I'm also surprised by the suggestion that Bioshock 2 was significantly better than the first. Both games are hobbled by infinite respawn and respec. I distinctly remember Bioshock 2 in particular being gutted of any challenge with the 'strategy' of constantly shooting bee swarms wherever you go.

Some things to read:
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...games-shutting-down.89997/page-5#post-3122189
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Eric..._2_is_better_part_1_Its_all_in_the_pacing.php

 

[CreamyBlood]

Whatever the ingredients they share, SS2 is a fun game. Bioshock was okay until the first 'shocking plot twist', or maybe a bit longer. Ultimately a huge letdown, I never finished it. How many Big Daddies can you kill? What's the point of upgrading weapons? I was curious as to how the story would pan out but didn't have the stamina to trudge through repetitive, boring gameplay. Bioshock was probably the last boxed game I bought in a store. Will never play the others. Got burned once, not again.

I don't know why people compare these two, they're not the same, not even close. Bioshock is probably one of the major turning points for me of when games 'officially' went full retard and fucked. Made for money and walmart, not SS2 fans or gamers.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...thoughts-on-creating-authentic-diversity.aspx

Achtung! Ken is talking about diversity. Everybody read.

 

[Black]

No He never has anything interesting to say.

 

[Infinitron]

Article seems kind of misnamed. It's really about "Jewish identity in BioShock".

“I think there lots of good writers out there," he says. "There’s Amy Hennig, Chris Avellone, and Rhianna Pratchett.

Ahem.