Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Just what is ISOMETRIC?

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by villain of the story, Feb 29, 2012.

  1. Art.Whizgender: ⚧ Novice

    Art.Whiz
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    Who cares? This is as useless as me taking the time to respond to this topic. Most people are dumb, we have to deal with it. Also, I will continue to think that Fallout perspective is isometric. Semantics...
     
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  2. Modrongender: ⚧ Arcane

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    I care, the articles on the various forms of projection were interesting. However, I would not fault someone for calling Fallout isometric as that term has kind of become a catch-all for any style of elevated and at an angle camera style at large in the public perspective. Really the only ones who need to know the exact perspective are the programmers and artists developing the game.
     
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  3. KidBoogiegender: ⚧ Learned

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    I drew axes on the pics that represent the illusion of 3 dimensions that we interpret from the corresponding viewpoints:


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Like hobbit said, we're used to the convention of the z-axis pointing 'up' and 'down' (in the direction of gravity on earth), because we're restricted in motion along that line (unless you can fly). Notice how in the first picture, the "z"-axis points into the screen at an angle to the right, but in the second picture, the "z"-axis points exactly along our z-axis on earth, so it's something we're used to and it feels natural.

    Also note that we don't have a convention for the x and y axes on earth, as we're not limited in motion in those directions. They can be pointing in any direction as long as they're perpendicular to each other and the z-axis, so rotating the x and y axes doesn't feel unnatural to us.
     
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  4. Severian Silkgender: ⚧ Guest

    Severian Silk
    In the former, it's an software optimization. You can fit more image data in a rectangular sprite that way. In the latter if you were to look at the sprites you would see lots of empty space. (Just like you can see empty space in corners of the rotated screenshot.) This is less efficient.

    Both pictures are headache inducing.
     
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  5. Rpgsaurus Rexgender: ⚧ Guest

    Rpgsaurus Rex
    You're not alone.
     
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  6. Moribundgender: ⚧ A droglike

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    This insane spergjob of an article is exactly why I could give two shits about what certain people here have to say.

    Same goes for following topics:

    1. Fallout art direction and MOST but NOT all other comments about art direction.
    2. Choice and consequences when it comes to dialogs (yay I can larp 6 different types of overly talkative douchebag).
    3. 2D over 3D.
    4. Perspective in Ultimas.
    5. Grids vs hex.
    6. Camera rotation being TEH EVIL.
    7. EVERYTHING SHOULD BE GRIMDARK AND DRAB.
    8. DOCTOR AND OUTDOORSMAN SKILL IN FALLOUT ARE BROKEN.

    You would think these are incredibly vital subjects but over time I have realized it's like all the same 5 guys who even give a shit at all, let alone go mental over it. A lot of times the same guy will be very concerned with EVERY ONE of these inane topics.
     
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  7. Bluebottlegender: ⚧ Erudite Patron

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    Like all warpings of language this one comes about mostly because there's isn't a decent concise word which easily describes an intended meaning which people often want to convey, and so some close but technically incorrect word has been adopted to fit. Really the only way that this would ever end would be if another word came in to play which adequately surmised 'looking down from above, but not directly above, at an angle of some kind'. Because of the fact that most people making this mistake in this context have either no understanding of the word or, more importantly, their first encounter of the word is in the incorrect context, they'll probably continue using it even if they know it isn't technically correct. So, while the post is interesting, informative and full of some decent screenshots, my recommendation would be to just accept it as one of the sometimes frustrating examples of the evolution of language.
     
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  8. KidBoogiegender: ⚧ Learned

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    Well, the rotated picture is still a rectangle, and so i think it would hold the same amount of image data. The reason there's empty space and also the reason the graphics look slightly shittier in the second picture is because the image was rotated, which for the majority of points screws up the intended position of a pixel relative to the ones close to it.

    If they design the game from the 45 degree viewpoint then there wouldn't be those empty spaces
     
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  9. villain of the storygender: ⚧ Unwanted

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    Which is exactly what I was suggesting, that whether your like it or accept it or not, "isometric" in the context of gaming has come to mean a whole lot of things which can only be described as "looking down from above at an angle", regardless of 2D or 3D but some people still get confused because they attribute certain features to it exclusively. There are even people who think isometric = 2D TB game.
     
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  10. Weierstraßgender: ⚧ Learned

    Weierstraß
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    And whether you like it or not, RPG has come to mean a third person shooter with romances.
     
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  11. Severian Silkgender: ⚧ Guest

    Severian Silk
    What is false about that article? (I might edit it to fix it.)

    I think it's called "oblique" perspective.
     
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  12. Severian Silkgender: ⚧ Guest

    Severian Silk
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  13. Awor Szurkrarzgender: ⚧ Arcane In My Safe Space

    Awor Szurkrarz
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  14. Severian Silkgender: ⚧ Guest

    Severian Silk
    Good post. Would brofist if I could.
     
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  15. Excidium IIgender: ⚧ Self-Ejected

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    Why didn't you back in 2013?
     
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  16. Severian Silkgender: ⚧ Guest

    Severian Silk
    I dunno. It was worth a brofist regardless.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 15, 2015
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  17. Severian Silkgender: ⚧ Guest

    Severian Silk
    It is always hard to tell with hand-drawn artwork, especially in the second image. Note how the round blue platforms are oval shaped. This could indicate that it in fact uses axonometric projection. You could tell for sure if, in the game, you can move horizontally faster than vertically.

    The first image uses oblique projection.
     
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