Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Just what is ISOMETRIC?

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by villain of the story, Feb 29, 2012.

  1. villain of the storygender: ⚧ Unwanted

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    I never said you have criticised technical aspects in the past.




    But maybe that doesn't qualify as a criticism.

    Joking aside, fair enough and I agree but my point stands. Camera in 3D is tricky business. Few "isometric" 3D games have done it right and most of those that did, did it with strict limitations eg. StarCraft 2. So if you're gonna give a fair amount of controls over camera, I think it will only help if you add in the option to switch to orthographic/parallel projection or a maybe an option set camera's field of vision so we can set a very narrow angle, zoom out a little bit and play it like the latter (which shouldn't be difficult for AoD as you wouldn't need to implement anything new :wink: )


    I omitted it because that specific bit of information about preservation of floor plans did nothing for the argument (ie. "isometric in games means more than isometric"). And it came up later on this same page anyway. It's a subtype of oblique projection.


    "Stop worrying about crap like that and just call it isometric like everbody else" was the point.

    They are clinically stupid.
     
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  2. villain of the storygender: ⚧ Unwanted

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    Perhaps the developers of Exult should work on the option to rotate the scene!
     
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  3. hivergender: ⚧ Guest

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    Fucking shit... i just saw bloodlines in isometric view...
    close one ofcourse, but still... shit, that would have been nice to play.
    unlike original.
     
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  4. villain of the storygender: ⚧ Unwanted

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    The only way to experience the streets of San Monica, The Asylum, the Hollywood is the first person way.

    But I would appreciate isometric TB for combat though I'm not sure that would work nicely in some parts of the game.
     
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  5. gromitgender: ⚧ Arcane

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    Both. For most of your life, "up" has been in the direction of "up." Also, in my eye (and I'd guess in that of many other people) the smaller patterns - for instance the cobblestone road - are less harsh on the 45 as well. That bit's outside my realm but makes a lot of intuitive sense: it's easier to partition space U/D/L/R, especially when rectangularly framed by your upright monitor.

    Nobody asked, but in the case of the 90-clockwise (the one with |/_ corners) I'm pretty sure the sprite-work itself is what keeps it from looking as good rotated the full 90. Especially the shading: it's the only of the three pictures where the light isn't inarguably coming from above, relative to the screen. Similarly the underlying (un-transformed, imagined) shape of the foliage becomes noticeably elliptical in the altered shots. Definitely a foreshortening "cheat." I'd imagine we didn't notice as much in the original because the tree's stretched dimension is parallel to the long side of the aspect. But sorry, you're never going to un-see it now, bitches.
     
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  6. gromitgender: ⚧ Arcane

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    Oh, that is a cool link. Anyway, I'd right up the differences in handling elevation and slope in different projections - think marble madness - but no more lunch time. :(
     
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  7. villain of the storygender: ⚧ Unwanted

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    Be my guest to discuss the oh so relevant actual uses and properties of different projections which this thread wasn't/isn't about.
     
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  8. Art Vandelaygender: ⚧ Arbiter

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    Isometric projection for dumbfucks:

    [​IMG]



    As for more interesting projections,check this oldie,but goldie:

     
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  9. Damned Registrationsgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

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    It's a screwy impossible angle, like an Escher painting. If you're looking at a box such that you can see 3 faces of it, your frame of reference for 'up' isn't going to be parallel to your frame of reference for 'away' like it is in the screenshot. With the walls being straight vertical like they are, you shouldn't be able to see their sides.

    There's a similar problem with it when it's at 45 degrees (the now vertical lines things like the trees and corners of walls and everything that is going 'up' when they're not dead centre, but it's a much much milder effect. 'up' being in the same direction as 'away' like it is in the 45 degree pic isn't perfectly accurate, but it's damned close.
     
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  10. gromitgender: ⚧ Arcane

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    There's also a distinct lack of foreshortening. But shhhhhhh he'll hear us
     
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  11. aspergender: ⚧ Cipher

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    I think it's because in the 45 degree rotated view, the walls are vertical - a straight line from the ground to the sky. In the original view, they are diagonal, which makes it seem af if the viewer is looking at them from an angle.

    edit: damnregistrations beat me to it
     
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  12. madegender: ⚧ Arcane

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    Can't say it makes any difference to me, both look fine imo.

    Maybe my brian is so advanced that it subconsciencely rotates the picture into the right angle for me? xD
     
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  13. villain of the storygender: ⚧ Unwanted

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    Dropping this here from the other thread:

    :smug:
     
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  14. Severian Silkgender: ⚧ Guest

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  15. villain of the storygender: ⚧ Unwanted

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    Cool. Brilliant example from that thread:

     
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  16. Hobbit Lord of Mordor_gender: ⚧ Dumbfuck! Patron Dumbfuck

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    The problem with the U7 perspective is that it defies 'gravity'

    In every other viewpoint 'down' = bottom-center of the screen = part of the scene closer to you. This is the view you experience for 99% of your life. When you experience any other angle it's because you are lying on your side and you know you're not upright because you can feel it.

    With U7 you are sitting in a chair upright with gravity directly below you but gravity projecting out of the screen toward you 45 degrees down and to the right. Homo sapiens can't cope with the confusion.
     
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  17. Severian Silkgender: ⚧ Guest

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    huh?
     
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  18. Krongender: ⚧ Arcane

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    U7 looks great graphic-detail-wise, but the perspective is fucked up. The angle of view is too "top down". It looks weird.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    As was said above, the elevation angle is not so much towards the bottom of the screen, but to the center, and it feels unnatural.
     
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  19. Severian Silkgender: ⚧ Guest

    Severian Silk
    I don't think Cain is right. I think Fallout uses trimetric projection. Oblique is sometimes headache-inducing, and I don't get that from Fallout.
     
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  20. Jaesungender: ⚧ Fabulous Moderator Patron

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    it was 1992 what were you expecting?
     
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  21. Krongender: ⚧ Arcane

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    What does the year have to do?
    Darklands was from 1992 and got its iso right.
    [​IMG]
     
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  22. Jaesungender: ⚧ Fabulous Moderator Patron

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    That I can agree with. I'd forgotten when Darklands came out. :oops:

    And yeah THAT perspective would have been better (they got it right with Ultima VIII).
     
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  23. Make America Great Again Infinitrongender: ⚧ Trade Master Patron

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    Never understood all the whining about U7's perspective.
     
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  24. SCOgender: ⚧ Arcane In My Safe Space

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    On the other hand, U7 suffers alot less than that fallout 'lost things in wall corners thing. Thou TBH it still did, as well as all overhead games. I remember torment doing this for instance.
     
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