Anime JRPG combat vs western blobber style combat - Why all the hate?

[Ellef]

There's already a pedo art/weeaboo discussion forum to contain all this shit. All the reasons that felipepepe stated, plus lack of PC options and shitty ports where they are available.

 

[Nutmeg]

muds_animal_friend,

Please lets compare apples to apples:

 

[Norfleet]

For a huge chunk of the Codex, old school WRPG brings to mind IE games, not Wizardry. I imagine the Wizardry fans are just fine, by and large, with JRPG combat systems.

That's because JRPG combat *IS* Wizardry combat. What do you think taught them to do that?

 

[Ninjerk]

Licorice that free Korean game I played FOREVER ago! was actually quite fun (I think it was korean anyway)

 

[Damned Registrations]

One of the interesting points about early japanese games (like, the REALLY old shit) is that they had better display resolutions, which were basically necessary to even display japanese text (and frankly I have a hard time imagining it being even remotely legible even at 640x480 unless the font took up a quarter of the screen) which I'd imagine was a giant kick in the balls for anyone trying to develop an RPG back then. Considering the late start, they've made some impressive innovations over the years.

 

[Nutmeg]

Ninjerk,

AFAIK none of those games are Korean.

They are, in order, Front mission 4, Fire emblem 5, Vantage master online, and Power DoLLS.

 

[Ninjerk]

I thought VMO was Korean back in the day because it was free probably lol

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

I also think that it's not JRPG combat per se, but what usually comes with it - animu art, grind, shitloads of random filler fights and sometimes very limited tactical options.

This is probably the norm - but WRPGs have the same shit in most of their games. Instead of weird anime it's giant pauldrons and bikini armor. Trash mobs are plenty common, as is grinding and filler.

WRPGs aren't very good either. That's the odd thing about the "nose up" attitude toward JRPGs, when WRPGs have probably about the same shit to playable ratio. Also, it could even be argued that the average JRPG is probably a bit better than the average WRPG, since at least it stays true to a Wizardry-esque combat style instead of the awful RTwP and other shit that WRPGs do.

 

[Daemongar]

I remember playing Knights of Xentar for the nudes and the novelty. It was one of my first JRPG's, and I thought the combat just sucked because it was an excuse to see smut. Then several years later I played a "serious" jrpg, and the combat was exactly the same. That was it for my excursion into JRPG's.

 

[cfisher2833]

I also think that it's not JRPG combat per se, but what usually comes with it - animu art, grind, shitloads of random filler fights and sometimes very limited tactical options.

This is why I really liked Dark Spire but wouldn't even dream of playing the same company's other games (Etrein Odyssey or whatever it's called). I hate that cutesy pedo shit that is everywhere in JRPGs.

Yeah, I downloaded the demo for that Etrian Odyssey 3DS game....christ, whoever designed those characters needs to be locked up. Like seriously. It's straight up pedo shit. I am not saying someone is a pedo for playing the games, but I would not be remotely fucking surprised if the artist responsible for that stuff gets arrested for child porn possession.

 

[Norfleet]

Yeah, I downloaded the demo for that Etrian Odyssey 3DS game....christ, whoever designed those characters needs to be locked up. Like seriously. It's straight up pedo shit. I am not saying someone is a pedo for playing the games, but I would not be remotely fucking surprised if the artist responsible for that stuff gets arrested for child porn possession.

He won't be. In Japan, that shit's legal.

 

[J_C]

I was talking about firsst person combat obviusly, since i showed a first person game as an example.

 

[FeelTheRads]

but WRPGs have the same shit in most of their games. Instead of weird anime it's giant pauldrons and bikini armor.

Guess it's about what gets your dick up. Therefore bikini armor > orphan kids with blue hair in totally dramatic situations that I'm supposed to take seriously

 

[Hobo Elf]

Yeah, I downloaded the demo for that Etrian Odyssey 3DS game....christ, whoever designed those characters needs to be locked up. Like seriously. It's straight up pedo shit. I am not saying someone is a pedo for playing the games, but I would not be remotely fucking surprised if the artist responsible for that stuff gets arrested for child porn possession.

The artist IS known for doing loli porn so it's not surprising that people have this kind of reaction when they play EO.

 

[Black_Willow]

Yeah, I downloaded the demo for that Etrian Odyssey 3DS game....christ, whoever designed those characters needs to be locked up. Like seriously. It's straight up pedo shit. I am not saying someone is a pedo for playing the games, but I would not be remotely fucking surprised if the artist responsible for that stuff gets arrested for child porn possession.

The artist IS known for doing loli porn

 

[thexsa]

JRPG's combat can be fun at times, many Tales of * plays more like fighting games. But the games always have sub 16 year old protagonists and follow every other cancerous anime stereotype. Thank god for skip buttons.

Lost Odyssey at least tried to be different and broke away from useless kids everywhere, but the combat was ridiculously slow paced, which worked in its favor in the interesting boss battles, but made all the random encounters unbearable.

The main issue with JRPG's are always, either you get a battle arena you load into every time, or you need to let garbage AI control your team members. Closest any JRPG ever has come to being a real game would be FF12.

Dunno what's worse though, kid protagonists everywhere or the retarded amount of SJW's in western AAA RPG's.

Thank god for Heroine's Quest and Shadowrun which made 2014 a bearable year.

 

[Ellef]

You're surprised that someone involved with Japanese visual media would be a complete degenerate?

 

[TigerKnee]

Damn, I love how this is like the reverse equivalent of going to other forums and having people hate WRPGs because of the 2 or 3 games of Fallout 3 and Bioware games that they've played.

 

[Akratus]

Also, anime and its tropes makes me want to puke. You can deny it all you want, but anime is primarily targeted to children, and it shows.

I really love the first Ghost in the Shell movie, Howl's Moving Castle and Akira, but people who turn their nose at anime aren't missing much more than that.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

If you want a good combat system, then use other game engines.

Any engines you recommend?

 

[FuriousGamer87]

If you want a good combat system, then use other game engines.

Any engines you recommend?

Well, I am using Construct 2 Personal Edition for all my games right now.
Using it to the fullest capability require you to have a good knowledge and hands-on experience with OOP.
Also on database, arrays, dictionaries and such if your intention is to make a RPG, like me .
Otherwise, you best spend your time elsewhere, judging from the whining and griping from first timers in the forum.

In any case, you can also try out Gamemaker Studio: Standard Edition.
Yoyo gives out the licenses for free every single quarter so just watch and wait.
If you can't wait, just go to a site where you kick ass and get it there.

If you are a master coder who need no fancy UI, then Love2D is more to your alley.
Everything in it is based on coding so you will feel right at home.
It is using Lua and I have seen some impressive stuff being done with it.

And of course, you can always try Unity or Unreal 4.
Both engine are impressive in what can be achieve with it and their ability to port to any system is also quite nice to have.
The catch? You need a team if you plan to release a more complex game than a mobile flappy bird/tower defense/angry bird clone.
If you don't have a team, tough luck then because the work needed to do anything robust in those two engine is actually quite a lot and needed to be divided to be manageable.
Especially if you plan on 3d.

 

[pakoito]

I don't play much animu but Labyrinth of Touhou 2 was good up until I got stuck, 6 floors in. It's not the grind because there's level cap for bosses, it's just probably that I suck.

 

[J_C]

On the other hand, given the OP post, I like to remind folks that there are other game engine you can make your games on.
RPGmaker style games combat system is way too common and too crap that even the Japanese are not using them at all, save for your artistic but no coding skill doujin/hentai Jap devs.

As for me, I'm trying to get familliar with RPG Maker because I'd like to try myself out in making simple RPGs, and this seems relatively easy to pick up. I have no, I repeat, NO coding and programming skills at all. Never learnt it. Not even a bit. Also, being a storyfag, my simple "games" would concentrate more on story than complex gameplay.

 

[muds_animal_friend]

I was talking about firsst person combat obviusly, since i showed a first person game as an example.

Not obviously. You presented a screenshot of a Might & Magic game and then made the blanket statement that typical JRPG combat is the closest thing to traditional WRPG combat. What you actually said and what may have been your intent to say are two different things. And I'm still unsure what your intent was, because you're now muddying the waters even further by referring to "first person combat". Many stereotypical JRPGs are third person. This is a combat screenshot from SSI's Phantasie series (a Western JRPG progenitor if there ever was one):

Third person with (semi)static positions on the battlefield. You could remove the party icons and call it first person, but that's merely an aesthetic change. If you're equating Wizardry style combat with "traditional WRPG combat", then you're wrong. That style of combat was never predominant in western RPGs.

What's this?

Dark Sun: Wake of the Ravager. For my money, the finest turn-based combat in the genre until the release of ToEE. It's unfortunate that series was launched at a transitional period in PC gaming. DOS was too limited a platform for what they were trying to achieve. If they'd developed it two or three years later than they did it may have been as well remembered, and as widely regarded, as the Infinity Engine games are today.

 

[J_C]

I was talking about firsst person combat obviusly, since i showed a first person game as an example.

Not obviously. You presented a screenshot of a Might & Magic game and then made the blanket statement that typical JRPG combat is the closest thing to traditional WRPG combat. What you actually said and what may have been your intent to say are two different things. And I'm still unsure what your intent was, because you're now muddying the waters even further by referring to "first person combat". Many stereotypical JRPGs are third person. This is a combat screenshot from SSI's Phantasie series (a Western JRPG progenitor if there ever was one):

Third person with (semi)static positions on the battlefield. You could remove the party icons and call it first person, but that's merely an aesthetic change. If you're equating Wizardry style combat with "traditional WRPG combat", then you're wrong. That style of combat was never predominant in western RPGs.

Ok, maybe I expressed myself poorly. Why I thought of is the comparison of oldschool Might and Magic, blobber style combat vs the traditional JRPG combat.

And you are right being first person or third person is just a question of perspecitve. But I chose the two pictures in my OP so they reflect what I think of. Both are from games which have static combat, where the characters, monsters don't move.