Anime JRPG combat vs western blobber style combat - Why all the hate?

[J_C]

So, I'm trying my hands on RPG Maker, and looked up some thread about it on the Codex. Although it was no surprise to me, that the basic reaction was: It is shit, it was strange to see that many hate RPG Maker, and JRPGs in general, because they have shit combat system. Meanwhile, JRPG combat is the closest we have to the oldschool wester RPG combat systems. Look at this:

Now look at this:

Both have static combat, you have you line of heroes on the one side, and the enemy on the other. You take action one by one, using attack, magic, defense, using items or flee the battle.

I know that we have more complex combat systems now, but the classic combat design of most JRPGs is no worse than the beloved WRPG combat.

 

[Ninjerk]

 

[Athelas]

Some of us don't like blobbers, you know.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Dragon Quest.

~fin

 

[Snorkack]

I don't know, for me it is not the combat mechanics but rather the weirdness to walk into a side road next to a highly frequented market place and get attacked by an angry house shooting rockets at you next to a playground. Many jrpgs have their combat on spot, but these animu settings are often too much. Can only speak for myself ofc.
Would love to have sth like disgaea or dragon quest with... dunno, less big eyes?

Also I have the impression that jrpgs show more courage in general to introduce innovative and unique mechanics than western rpgs. Often not to everyone's taste.

 

[Johannes]

Everything is shit.

On a jap girls chest.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I have played a good many more games with decent blob combat (the above style) than decent 'tactical' combat (infinity engine/goldbox etc.) and really there is no common thread to what makes things good. There are too many fucking things that can be done well or poorly. Examples include:

The time it takes to resolve combat.
The difficulty (which is completely independent from the complexity)
The complexity.
The novelty (not a requirement but can be a nice bonus if something has a new system)
The balance (complexity tends to suffer the worse this gets, and vice versa.)

Moving your units around the battlefield is just one kind of combat mechanic, there's nothing about it that makes it a better one than things like AP systems, extra resource pools, complicated stats, rock/paper/scissors type relationships between units, morale systems, etc.

 

[J_C]

I can say that while I like JRPG combat as much as any other western combat system (if done right), what kills me is the abundance of the random encoutners, which many JRPGs are at fault. If I can't take 10 steps without triggering a combat, I could slit my wrist after the 100th time.

 

[Azarkon]

For a huge chunk of the Codex, old school WRPG brings to mind IE games, not Wizardry. I imagine the Wizardry fans are just fine, by and large, with JRPG combat systems.

 

[cfisher2833]

Personally, I tend not to like most first person turn based blobbers (or any turn-based JRPG combat for that matter) as I think that style of turn-based combat is rarely ever tactical and tends to devolve into spending minutes upon minutes mashing the attack command. Also, a lot of those first person western blobber RPGs take into account elements like positioning of your character, whereas the majority of JRPGs I've ever played place little to no emphasis on positioning.

The main thing though is, can most of the enemies be killed simply by mashing attack? If so, I don't see the need for it to be turn-based. If you're gonna make a game turn-based, there sure as hell better be a reason for doing so (ie real tactics that borderline REQUIRE the game to be turn-based).

Also, anime and its tropes makes me want to puke. You can deny it all you want, but anime is primarily targeted to children, and it shows.

 

[octavius]

What the fuck does the combat system of JRPGs matter when the artwork is so womit inducing as to make the games unplayable?

 

[Damned Registrations]

I suppose the one big difference between the two styles is that since tactical battles take longer (far far longer) they aren't suitable for the kind of resource management attrition a dungeon full of smaller encounters is designed to create. The point of aggravatingly frequent battles in a lot of old jrpgs (when there is a point, some of them are just aping success they've seen elsewhere) is to exhaust your supply of spells and potions and so forth so there is a feeling of tension regarding whether or not you can still make it back out alive, or win a tough boss battle, or do both, or you need to run right away, etc. That shit doesn't really work with more discrete chunks of resources- it's really fucking obvious in a game like KotC whether or not you'll be able to press on, because you're gauging whether there's 1 or 2 battles left, not 5 or 25.

 

[octavius]

And why use Might&Magic 3 as an example of WRPG combat? The only good thing about combat in that game was that it was swift.

 

[muds_animal_friend]

JRPG combat is the closest we have to the oldschool wester RPG combat systems.

 

[Mustawd]

Some of us don't like blobbers, you know.

Fool.

 

[Luckra]

Also I have the impression that jrpgs show more courage in general to introduce innovative and unique mechanics than western rpgs. Often not to everyone's taste.

This.
Unfortunately innovation/uniqueness and execution/polish/fun doesn't go hand in hand as was proven countless times in many JRPGs .

Also we are talking classic oldschool JRPG combat and not the crappy semi real-time thingy in most JRPGs these days, right?

 

[Snorkack]

JRPG combat is the closest we have to the oldschool wester RPG combat systems.

What's this?

 

[zero29]

What's this?

darksun3.gif

 

[Snorkack]

What's this?

darksun3.gif

holy shite, never realized dark sun had a sequel! Thread already worth my time.

 

[pippin]

I generally hate trash mobs in jrpgs. Wrpgs have plenty of them as well, but it's more of a jrpg thing to have fights every 2 seconds, and most of them being a bunch of regular thugs.
Then you have the "particular" taste japanese people have when creating stories and characters.
And yes, japanese people sometimes tend to be creative when it comes to trying to add stuff to their combat systems, but look at Final Fantasy. The series has fallen into decline for a number of reasons, but the changes included in the combat department from one game to another really gives the impression of a general lack of direction, more than anything else.

 

[V_K]

The problem with JRPG combat is not the system per se but extreme HP bloat and retarded boss battles featuring multiple resurrections.
Also, classic blobbers usually have two rows for positioning, JRPGs usually don't - and despite being primitive this mechanic has a huge impact on your tactical options.

 

[felipepepe]

I also think that it's not JRPG combat per se, but what usually comes with it - animu art, grind, shitloads of random filler fights and sometimes very limited tactical options.

 

[Damned Registrations]

The problem with JRPG combat is not the system per se but extreme HP bloat and retarded boss battles featuring multiple resurrections.
Also, classic blobbers usually have two rows for positioning, JRPGs usually don't - and despite being primitive this mechanic has a huge impact on your tactical options.

LOL, what are some western rpgs with good combat that don't have any hp bloat? For that matter, which asshole did you pull your second point from? You've probably only ever played like 3 jrpgs. Plenty of them have a row/formation mechanic, and generally a mechanic for defending as well, which is conspicuously absent from all these 'tactical' games. So fucking tactical having your 70 year old wizard throw rocks at enemies because there's no way to make him try to stay alive instead of being a berserk madman.

 

[FuriousGamer87]

Japanese JRPG usually have robust and great complexity in their combat systems which I enjoy a lot but their ever present grind is pretty much annoying.
However, if given a choice between WRPG lel mobile games tap tap simplistic combat system or JRPG, I will always choose JRPG.
Also, WRPG have more dumbass and uncreative stories than JRPG ever have in general.
Though I have to admit the lel highschool setting for everyone is getting pretty stale.

On the other hand, given the OP post, I like to remind folks that there are other game engine you can make your games on.
RPGmaker style games combat system is way too common and too crap that even the Japanese are not using them at all, save for your artistic but no coding skill doujin/hentai Jap devs.
It's hard to maintain any additional functions on it so making a robust and complex combat system on top of the existing one is very difficult.
If you want a good combat system, then use other game engines.

 

[Bio Force Ape]

I also think that it's not JRPG combat per se, but what usually comes with it - animu art, grind, shitloads of random filler fights and sometimes very limited tactical options.

This is why I really liked Dark Spire but wouldn't even dream of playing the same company's other games (Etrein Odyssey or whatever it's called). I hate that cutesy pedo shit that is everywhere in JRPGs.