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JRPG 101 for the ignorant PC gamer

newtmonkey

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I would like to add that playing FF7 on a nice CRT in RGB made me appreciate how good the prerendered backgrounds look. Even the 3D stuff looks somewhat charming. Played on an HDTV or even scaled up to high res in an emulator makes the game look horrible (of course, that is true for the 2D games as well... it's just more true FF7).
 
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FF IV is linear and plot focused. It's honestly nothing special compared to III/V/VI. It has nice graphics & music, but later SNES games blow it away. Honestly I'd say this one is skip-able.

I second on hating this geam. It's total decline comparing to III mainly because of fact that classes are unchangable! There's only one change (Dark Knight into Paladin) thanks to plot reasons but that's all. OP avoid is or at least finish it as the last of 2D era FFs.
 

newtmonkey

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I liked FFIV (FF2US) most of all when I first played it as a kid, but after playing/replaying 1-4, 6, and 7 pretty recently, 4 came out on the bottom. There is just nothing interesting in there besides the music and graphical upgrade from FF3 (and even then, it is not a huge upgrade outside of battles). The game is balanced to the point of it not being interesting at all.
 

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
The thing about FF4 is that because the classes are not changeable, the game is very tightly designed around consumables and features a very, very, very high difficulty for an FF game. If you played it English, you got the dumbed down easymode ROM though. The Japanese hardmode (original) is pretty grueling indeed.
 

Dzupakazul

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Ya. It doesn't help that for the longest time the only way to enjoy proper FF4 in English was this weird thing of a fan translation:
act-j2e.jpg

whore.jpg
 

newtmonkey

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I know, and I played the US version when I was a kid. But when I replayed the game I played the JPN version on PSX, and it was basically the same. Most of the abilities that were removed in the US version are useless, and the mountain of items you get deserved to be cut in the US version. The only points that gave me trouble in FFIVJP were 1) when I was underleveled and hand't earned the Float spell yet for that one cave where you need that spell and 2) the last boss, where I was underleveled and beating the boss was literally impossible because he would kill my weaker characters before I could even heal them. I gained one level, and he literally went from impossible to cakewalk.

The problem I had with FFIV was that it was too tightly designed. It was just boring. The designers knew what characters/classes you would have, and also knew within a couple levels or so how strong you would be, so there was little room for improvisation. All you have is the story left, and it's a bunch of people heroically sacrificing themselves every 10 minutes.

The second problem I had with it was the dungeons. They were far too linear, and you found nothing of value in them. Contrast that with the earlier games (but especially FF1, where all of the best equipment was found in chests). It drove me nuts in FFIV to go down a winding optional path to get a treasure chest, just to get some fucking item that casts the low or medium level fire spell, when I am already at the point where casting that is like nothing for my mages.

I did like the final dungeon in the game where you can fight the "optional" bosses for high level equipment. I just wish that stuff had been spread throughout the game. I really can't remember a single time in that game where I found anything in a chest that really was a game changer.

However, the music and graphics have aged extremely well. This is one of the few SNES/SFC soundtracks that still sound amazing today. No weird sounding horns and guitars, no weird reverb, just amazing music from start to end. The overworld theme and battle music are simply some of the best video game music ever written.

What I appreciated with the older games is that you had to make decisions in FF 1-3, and if your decisions were retarded, the game got stupid hard and you either had to grind or start over. Of course, that doesn't really happen because we aren't talking about Wizardry or Pool of Radiance here. Unless you choose, like, a party of 4 thieves in FF1, you will be fine. Unless you just follow FAQs and their dumbass "tricks" you will be fine in FF2. Unless you switch classes all over the place, you will be fine in FF3. Rather than getting stuck, it's actually a matter of just playing through the game normal, or steamrolling the second half of the game.
 

Ventidius

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The thing about FF4 is that because the classes are not changeable, the game is very tightly designed around consumables and features a very, very, very high difficulty for an FF game. If you played it English, you got the dumbed down easymode ROM though. The Japanese hardmode (original) is pretty grueling indeed.
I second this. FF IV is probably the best balanced of the old FF games, and the only one that consistently provides a reasonable level of challenge in combat. Since the latter element of these games is so pervasive this translates into an overall more interesting and fun moment-to-moment experience. Though I shhould clarify that I am basing my opinion on the DS remake.

It should be noted how impressive an achievement this is in the context of the series, as in most of the other games it is easy to become overpowered by fighting random encounters. This often happens even if one does not go out of one's way to grind, and often the only way to squeeze any challenge is to gimp onself, hardly good design. This is probably the game in the series that is least susceptible to the common complaints about these games being easy and grindy.

In many ways, this is a textbook case of an RPG having less customization options, but being an overall superior tactical experience for it, and if you are gonna play any FF for the combat, this is the one you are looking for.
 

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
The DS version is VERY different from the original hard type version.

It's - in my opinion - better in every way. Some things:

The DS remake is far more difficult than even the original Japanese so-called hard type FF 4 release. It is this way many bosses had their scripts improved/redone. They also increased the challenge because they added the 'augment' system, a way to give your characters additional abilities, a bit like equipping a materia. If you play FF 4 on the DS without using those augments -- like I did -- it is far and beyond the absolute hardest version there is. The DS version also alleviates the 'every character is set in stone' by adding these (optional) augments so you could give someone a skill like, say, Dual Cast or Auto Potion, FF 5 style.

One of the best things about the DS version is the insane utility of consumables. How many FF games can you name where consumables are useful outside of the context of a low level challenge run? FF 4 on the DS is quite in fact so difficult you are essentially forced to use them to survive. I remember making liberal use of an item that can stop 1 monster in combat for a few turns just to survive the random encounters in the last dungeon.
 

Falksi

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Play these:

FF2/4
FF5.........As others have said, job system is brilliant and a highlight of the series
FF3/6.......I didn't enjoy it that much, but so many praise it you have to play it to judge for yourself.
FF7........aged badly, but still a classic
FF9........I found it boring, but again many like so judge for yourself
FFX........I absolutely loved it. Cheesy as fuck, combat is way simple, but it's juts got a great heart to it.
FFXII.......This is where you should put the brakes on. I enjoyed it but never finished it (dungeon areas are just too big & boring) But it's still enjoyable and worth a blast.

Phantasy Star 4.......this is stunningly brilliant even today
Earthbound
Chrono Trigger
Shadow Hearts: Covenant......This game is fucking MINT. One of the most underrated games ever.
Suikoden 2
The Last Remnant
Lost Odyssey
Nier
Secret of Mana (although the re-release is out next year, so maybe see how that turns out first)
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
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Ya. It doesn't help that for the longest time the only way to enjoy proper FF4 in English was this weird thing of a fan translation:
act-j2e.jpg

whore.jpg
Legends of Localization has clearly established that the original English translation of Final Fantasy IV, for all its faults, is nonetheless better, or at least less bad, than any of the later translations until the Nintendo DS remake.

In particular, this bizarre fan translation was not only filled with tonally-inept pop culture references and swearing, but it also had more errors than the original.

morej2e.png


:hahano: :hahano: :hahano:
 
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
Messages
1,633
I was never really big into FF4, despite all the fanfare that it receives.

You guys are certainly making enough of a case for it to give me a second glance. I'll give hard-type a try.
 

Atlet

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Nov 11, 2017
Messages
1,568
The best of the best are:

1) Phantasy Star 4;

2) Final Fantasy VI;

3) Suikoden II.

Honorable mentions:

- Breath of Fire (underrated gem)

- Dragon Quest VIII
 

ilitarist

Learned
Illiterate Village Idiot
Joined
Oct 17, 2016
Messages
857
Explain to me the hate for FFXIII.

I haven't played it yet (planning to get to it) but I've recently played FFX HD on PC. Everything bad that I've heard about FFXIII was evident there, plus FFX had some technical problems that probably will not be there in FFXIII.

Form over subsistence in story and the world? It's all there in every FF game. FFX has metal intro but after that it's a bizarre world with bizarre story and with magical undead (not to confuse with undead monsters or undead status that both undead and non-undead characters can have). I've heard that FFXIII is linear for most of the way but FFX is extremely linear too, you only have several meters sidetracks for a chest. There's linearity of character development but as I understand they did the same they did in FFVI - significant part of the game your characters are normal people and they only start leveling up with some input later. From what I've seen FFXIII is beautiful and has great music. I trust them also to add interesting combat with optional interesting encounters as it was in FFX - but those encounters, of course, appeared mostly in a lategame right before the final dungeon, i.e. same as postgame.

What am I missing?
 

Jasede

Arcane
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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
...have you gotten into a single combat encounter yet and witnessed the glory of "put your controller down and get a snack" combat?
 

ilitarist

Learned
Illiterate Village Idiot
Joined
Oct 17, 2016
Messages
857
You mean like FFXII? Or like "smash contextual attack button" a la Might & Magic 6-8 and many other RPGs?
 

Hobo Elf

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Platypus Planet
The difference between FF13 and FF12 is that FF12 only automates as much as you want it to, FF13 does it all for you regardless of your own feelings. People only complain about FF12 gambit system because it's the single most powerful party AI scripting system in any RTwP RPG so far.
 

ilitarist

Learned
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Messages
857
The difference between FF13 and FF12 is that FF12 only automates as much as you want it to, FF13 does it all for you regardless of your own feelings. People only complain about FF12 gambit system because it's the single most powerful party AI scripting system in any RTwP RPG so far.

Ah, I see. I'm intrigued. I'd play FF12 but we don't have a PC port for some reason even though it was remastered.
 

Raghar

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The difference between FF13 and FF12 is that FF12 only automates as much as you want it to, FF13 does it all for you regardless of your own feelings. People only complain about FF12 gambit system because it's the single most powerful party AI scripting system in any RTwP RPG so far.

Ah, I see. I'm intrigued. I'd play FF12 but we don't have a PC port for some reason even though it was remastered.
Smart gamers are using emulator. Why crappy port when there is an emulator that allows proper texture filtering?
 

ilitarist

Learned
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Smart gamers are using emulator. Why crappy port when there is an emulator that allows proper texture filtering?

I've played several FF games on SNES and PSX emulators. But for some reasons starting with PS2 emulation seem to be inherently crippled. Even with a monstrous machine I can't get a reliable fps and get rid of glitches, always living in fear of game breaking bugs.

There are enough good games to not spend time on emulation and modding - this will never give you a result that is not shoddy.
 

Raghar

Arcane
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I played FF XII on E7300 overclocked to 3.2 GHz. No glitches whatever.
 

Rahdulan

Omnibus
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The difference between FF13 and FF12 is that FF12 only automates as much as you want it to, FF13 does it all for you regardless of your own feelings. People only complain about FF12 gambit system because it's the single most powerful party AI scripting system in any RTwP RPG so far.

I would actually say that's something of a misbegotten reputation FF13 got - it's not that the game plays itself because of Paradigms, it's that it forces you to engage with them in every minute encounter. Switching Paradigms to form perfect synergy and defeat a boss so you get five stars easily? Great. Having to do the same thing just so you can stagger every single enemy, until you're so OP they don't matter anymore? That was what infuriated me. I can only play Simon Says for so long.
 

Beastro

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May 11, 2015
Messages
7,938
Playing through FF2/4 (atm on GBA (Euro version for the bug fixes) and hating how downgraded it is compared to the SNES version, but am mainly playing it for the later optional dungeons and don't want to mess with the massive face lift the DS version got.

I don't know what's worse, what they did to the music or the pretentious, try hard translation that completely doesn't realize it's in a simple childrens story.

Also the balance feels off. I'm up to Fabul atm and the Underground Waterway and Antlion Nest were easy without the tedium I remember experiencing in the original even back in 2005 when I gave my SNES it's last run. It was something I always dreaded facing given that Cecil was your only solid damage dealer and mana was tight along with Edward being near useless, but this time I experienced none of that with Edward's staus harps being very useless.

Odd to say, but I don't like it as much without that and wonder how it'll be not having to drag the twins around.
 
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Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
The DS version of 4 is by far the best or at least equal to the original release - even the 3D models stay true to the spirit of the original. Better yet, the game is massively more difficult in the DS version as almost all bosses got new AI scripts. Considering the original 4 was already pretty hard, it ends up being the most challenging FF game.

But as I want to be honest, here are some things you might not like about the DS version:

1) It's 3D. Even though it's very well done and true to the original art style, it's a departure from the original.
2) The translation is very old-timey/try-hard.
3) The augment system is plain odd. I ignored it to stay true to the original -- which made the game incredibly difficult.
 

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