Editorial Josh Sawyer Explains: How to Balance an RPG

[Roguey]

Sorcerers have to be super-charismatic to learn the best arcane spells cause, uh....

 

[Delterius]

Star Wars: magic, know as the force, is just an intrinsic quality of the individual

Lord of the Rings: magic is an intrinsic quality of either the individual or item

Harry Potter: magic is an intrinsic quality of the individual

Dungeons and Dragons: Divine magic is a power bestowed by the gods and you don't need to be smart to use or learn it

I can't really see any of those characters lacking in intelligence or wisdom in the case of D&D divine casters. The Sorcerer would be a better example than the cleric.

 

[Jasede]

Because Charisma represents force of personality and sorcery is all about manipulating the weave through in-born talent, as opposed to study.

 

[Roguey]

Cool gobbledygook.

 

[Jasede]

I hope you kill yourself.

 

[tuluse]

I can't really see any of those characters lacking in intelligence or wisdom in the case of D&D divine casters. The Sorcerer would be a better example than the cleric.

I'm still kinda

Luke Skywalker, Harry Potter, and Sauramon are all dumb as rocks.

Wisdom is clearly marked as a separate attribute from intelligence, so I don't know why you are conflating the two.

Also, what Roguey said.

 

[Dreaad]

Sorcerers have to be super-charismatic to learn the best arcane spells cause, uh....

Because their power stems from an outside benefactor i.e. they have to either a.) convince the benefactor that they deserve the power b.) convince themselves that they are worthy of their heritage blood (so to speak). Both require a strong belief in oneself.

Mind you anything in any fantasy setting can be explained away in one way or another.

 

[tuluse]

Because Charisma represents force of personality and sorcery is all about manipulating the weave through in-born talent, as opposed to study.

So you don't have to be smart to use magic in D&D. What does HiddenX think of this.

 

[Athelas]

Because Charisma represents force of personality and sorcery is all about manipulating the weave through in-born talent, as opposed to study.

Isn't wisdom supposed to determine your strength of character? From a simulationist standpoint, charisma affecting the success of summoning spells would make more sense.

 

[HiddenX]

If you all think playing none-restricted, everything is possible, multi-profession, no need to specialize, everything works, auto-balanced, no failure characters is the way to go in future then Good Night for the CRPG genre. Why bothering with attributes and skills at all? Just make an Adventure with c&c, a good story and you are happy.

I don't think we can reach a consensus here.

 

[mondblut]

1) Do whatever you want at character creation - your character will not be bad, every build works.

Is there any world in which 1 and 3 are a bad thing?

Codex, 2014.

Every build is sacred
Every build is great
If a build is wasted
Josh gets quite irate

Every build is wanted
Every build is good
Every build is needed
In your neighborhood

 

[FeelTheRads]

with the way the narrative depicted magic, as being spontaneous and stemming from belief.

Where? Honest question because at the moment I have more memories of the recently read Planescape source books than of Torment.
In Planescape mages still learn spells through study and experimentation and clerics still get them from their gods. It does stress the idea that belief can shape things, but it's an extra layer. Nowhere does it say that magic at its core is spontaneous and stems from belief, just that it can be affected by it.

 

[Delterius]

If you all think playing none-restricted, everything is possible, multi-profession, no need to specialize, everything works, auto-balanced, no failure characters is the way to go in future then Good Night for the CRPG genre. Why bothering with attributes and skills at all? Just make an Adventure with c&c, a good story and you are happy.

I don't think we can reach a consensus here.

Are you sure those games can't score high on your rpg meter, like Skyrim?

:D

 

[Roguey]

I like how I'll be able to make a character based on which dialogue checks I want to pass while having the assurance that that character won't be dead weight in combat when played to the strengths of its build regardless of which class I ultimately go with.

Going with high per/res/int obviously, pretty high pressure on Josh to fix the first two.

 

[HiddenX]

If you all think playing none-restricted, everything is possible, multi-profession, no need to specialize, everything works, auto-balanced, no failure characters is the way to go in future then Good Night for the CRPG genre. Why bothering with attributes and skills at all? Just make an Adventure with c&c, a good story and you are happy.

I don't think we can reach a consensus here.

Are you sure those games can't score high on your rpg meter, like Skyrim?

:D

They would fail all checklist points in the category character development => NO CRPG

 

[felipepepe]

I like how all my playthroughs will be exactly the same, just with different dialog checks

Fixed for you.

 

[Roguey]

I like how all my playthroughs will be exactly the same, just with different dialog checks

Fixed for you.

That's not JES's goal. The build of your individual character plus the the make-up of your party should result in different playstyles and experiences.

 

[Delterius]

I like how all my playthroughs will be exactly the same, just with different dialog checks

Fixed for you.

That's not JES's goal. The build of your individual character plus the the make-up of your party should result in different playstyles and experiences.

Basically there are more classes than party slots so... 2 different playthroughs?

 

[tuluse]

If you all think playing none-restricted, everything is possible, multi-profession, no need to specialize, everything works, auto-balanced, no failure characters is the way to go in future then Good Night for the CRPG genre. Why bothering with attributes and skills at all? Just make an Adventure with c&c, a good story and you are happy.

I don't think we can reach a consensus here.

The point of attributes and skills to modify which aspects of the game your character is good not. Not to determine whether or not the character is good at anything.

 

[HiddenX]

Not to determine whether or not the character is good at anything.

Who said that?

An attribute and skill system is the numerical representation of an in-game character.
A mathematical model with which an in-game action could be checked for success or failure with some randomness thrown in.

 

[tuluse]

Not to determine whether or not the character is good at anything.

Who said that?

An attribute and skill system is the numerical representation of an in-game character.
A mathematical model with which an in-game action could be checked for success or failure with some randomness thrown in.

A low INT wizard is good at nothing in D&D.

 

[Delterius]

Not to determine whether or not the character is good at anything.

Who said that?

An attribute and skill system is the numerical representation of an in-game character.
A mathematical model with which an in-game action could be checked for success or failure with some randomness thrown in.

A low INT wizard is good at nothing in D&D.

Low INT wizards are sent to fighter school at age 7.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

- Or strengths and weaknesses come from your own strengths and weaknesses as a player instead of those of the character?

No, the character has the strengths and weaknesses, you as a player are the one who makes the build viable by playing the character in a way that takes advantage of it's strengths while minimizing it's weakness. The weaknesses still exist, but how much they negatively affect you depends on how you play, because this is a video game.

 

[HiddenX]

We will all see how PoE turns out at release.

a) maybe it's a game with no classes to speak of
b) maybe it's a game with no class at all...

 

[Infinitron]

Some nice hysteria ITT from HiddenX.

Since when is a classless RPG 'bringing something new and fresh to the table'? It's not exactly a novel concept.

In party-based fantasy games? They appear a lot in post-apocalyptic or modern-age games, but I the last classless fantasy game was what, Ishar?

Hint - it's going to be Codex GOTY 2014.