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Jeff Vogel vs Pillars of Eternity

Discussion in 'Obsidian Entertainment' started by Infinitron, May 18, 2017.

  1. Fry Magister

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    It's been well established that Sensuki's IE play style represents perhaps 2% of the people who've enjoyed those games, so... his brand of autism isn't an especially compelling argument for most.
     
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  2. Lacrymas Arcane

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    Well, does anyone think that it sold because of the story and setting? I backed the Kickstarter because it was an isometric RPG by Obsidian, oh how naive I was to think that was enough. I didn't expect amazing gameplay, but I did think they would deliver an interesting story that will compensate (kinda like all their other games), but alas.


    They shot themselves in the foot by going up to 16th level in the first game, now necessitating a power reboot, which shoots them in the other foot because the leveling speed will be retardedly fast and bananas due to the new level cap of 20. BG1 went up to 10ish depending on the class, which was much more manageable. I suppose if PoE2 is as big as BG2 it could be more controlled in the leveling speed, but I doubt it. Of course the level range wasn't what was wrong with the gameplay, but it was a contributing factor.
     
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  3. J1M Arcane

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    What is "3.0"? I don't recall that being part of the game when I played it the only time I was going to play it at release. Is it the product of player feedback? Given the closed beta period, one would expect that this would be present at launch.

    If the designers didn't have a clear vision, or weren't able to implement their vision that really only adds to the arguments for using an existing ruleset.
     
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  4. gaussgunner Arcane

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    I guess so, except for Thaos being pointlessly imitative of Irenicus (^^ according to ilitarist).
    I played it instead of BG2 for the same reason someone might play Avadon instead of Exile - a more modern and hopefully :lol: better game.

    Hmmm, PoE 3.0 must be a 2017 or late 2016 update. I have 2.13 on my hard drive.
     
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  5. Quillon Cipher

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    Didn't it came with WMP2 so early 2016 update?
     
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  6. gaussgunner Arcane

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    Confirmed. Not sure why I got 2.13 from gog in september 2016. Maybe everyone was saying 3.0 was shit so they kept 2.13 around for a while.
     
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  7. Sizzle Arcane

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    Sensuki only played the game (v1.0) up until the beginning of Act II or so.

    I respect the effort he put in trying to make the game better while it was still in beta, but making him out to be some sort of ultimate PoE expert is silly.
     
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  8. Quillon Cipher

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    So what does "pulling a sensuki" mean? I only remember him from superficially browsing Obs forums during PoE1 development. Did flew to California and attempt assassinations? Or is there a gold mine of melt down posts in the depths of the codex?
     
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  9. Sizzle Arcane

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    He spent a lot of time (as in - making YT videos, detailed analysis where he explained how the attribute system should be overhauled, etc.) on PoE during its beta. Then, shortly after the game was released, he played a bit of it, proclaimed it was shit (mostly on account of the writing and engagement system), and never played it again.

    Now, according to what you think of PoE, he's regarded either as:

    - A guy who tried to help Obs. make a better game and wisely gave up when he saw there's no hope for them.

    or

    - Someone who obsessively played the beta until he got burned out, and then flip-flopped to the "PoE is absolute shit, can't believe I ever thought otherwise" camp, who still, even though he claims to care nothing about the game - let alone its sequel - hangs around PoE topics.
     
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  10. Lhynn Arcane

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    I care nothing about PoE, let alone its sequel, but i still hang out in PoE topics because a bunch of retarded shit is said here and i enjoy abusing people.
     
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  11. Sizzle Arcane

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    Yeah, but you don't have the need to convince people of just how much you don't care about PoE, while still fervently talking about it.

    Therein lies the difference :D
     
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  12. Lhynn Arcane

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    Being a jaded asshole has its perks.
     
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  13. Iznaliu Arbiter

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    It also has its downsides.
     
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  14. AwesomeButton Cut a deal with the authorities Patron

    AwesomeButton
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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    I just watched some of Sawyer's stream of PoE from January 2015, it's on the Paradox Extra yt channel. My line of thought was basically:
    1. This game was a complete wreck on release, obviously released prematurely, by about six months, even just to fix balance, interface and gameplay issues, to speak nothing of the writing (same thing I've also written in my impressions of TWM thread here).
    2. It only got good critical reception because it was pronounced to be an IE games clone. The talentless and useless people with dyed hair and genders varying by what day of the week it is, who write PR articles for "gamer media" outlets, have heard the IE games were good, so they pronounced PoE good in order to appear knowledgeable, and also because it has beautiful backgrounds.
    3. The other reason for the good critical reception was that PoE allowed those amoebas to go through the game in a weekend or so, by a) sticking to the crit path, b) playing on Easy, and c) Lasso-Select All > right click on target. Tank and spank was considered high grade tactics.
    4. The game became playable with patch 2.0 and WM1, where you can see the first batch of high quality content, besides Raedeic's Hold. By then it had got good sales and word of mouth, so it was impossible to screw up by competent patching and adding superior content through expansions.

    Fun fact - in the end, in one patch (it may have been 1.7, should be listed in the PoE wiki), Josh adopted what Sensuki had proposed for the attribute system. I think without Sensuki's and other people's feedback the game would have been significantly worse at release, and Obsidian recognized his role by sending him a review copy.
     
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  15. Lacrymas Arcane

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    There was a gamebreaking bug on release as well, you couldn't leave the interior of Raedric's Hold. I don't remember if it crashed the game or the background was black, but you couldn't continue. You had to use the console to teleport yourself to Magran's Fork. I don't think it deserved the good critical reception it got, but, like you said, people who hadn't even played the IE games proclaimed it is good to appear a gaming buff. I won't be surprised if not only critics, but normal gamers did that as well, to be "cool" in front of their friends, so the thing spread like wildfire. I am somewhat enjoying my current playthrough, but with sufficient foreknowledge of what to expect. No companions, just skimming through the dialogue, if I see even a hint of descriptive text I skip it, pretty much perma-Fast-mode for walking around (due to the complete lack of "atmosphere"), Slow mode is a must in combat. So many compromises just to make it bearable. I'm glad they are doing PoE2, though, if only to see if this genre can continue to be marketable and profitable, I'm wary of the per encounter bullshit, but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.
     
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  16. Sensuki Arcane Cuck

    Sensuki
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    My review copy was actually given to me by the Codex, it was given to mindx2, and then powers that be gave it to me. Obsidian were very surprised that I ended up with it.
     
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  17. Sizzle Arcane

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    Yeah, Sawyer's response in the topic where Sensuki proposed his attribute changes was hilarious, it was something like: "Yes, I was also thinking of changing the attributes along those lines... even before Sensuki's suggestions. Honest." :D

    I mean, it's possible that's what happened, Sawyer always struck me as someone who openly admitted to where he got his inspiration stole shit from, but it would be amusing if he only said that because he didn't want to give Sensuki his due. I seem to remember it was implied somewhere that he disliked him, but can't remember where exactly. Infinitron, Roguey, do you guys remember something like that?
     
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  18. AwesomeButton Cut a deal with the authorities Patron

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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Lol, I thought they were in contact with you about the review copy.

    Oh, I doubt Sawyer is capable of having emotions for any particular player.
     
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  19. anduin Arbiter

    anduin
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    So, in this media engagement Jeff Vogel vs Pillars of Eternity, who won in the end ?
    I didn't keep up with the thread.
     
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  20. Sizzle Arcane

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    :littlemissfun::nofunallowed::whatisfun:
     
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  21. Roguey Arcane Sawyerite Sawyerist Sawyer's Bride No Fun Allowed

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    You're remembering that worse than it was http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68...gn-in-pillars-of-eternity/page-3#entry1508219

    Josh has never disparaged Sensuki and in fact went to bat for him once when goons were mocking him.
     
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  22. Delterius Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Delterius
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    Well, its a story of love really. Sensuki is to Roguey just as Pillars is to Josh. And passion breeds insanity but all is forgiven in due time.
     
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  23. AwesomeButton Cut a deal with the authorities Patron

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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    At one point I said he is probably a very boring DM. Now, I'm not that sure. He is one of the few people who know what they are talking about when discussing systems, and one of the few who actually discuss them with players. I think PoE's ruleset produced a game that was hard for a player to read, but then the overall balance of the game produced a game that doesn't really need to be read to win in it, unless you are soloing or playing with 4 characters on the highest difficulty. That's ultimately bad, but like I said, passed over the heads of the "game critics" and of the majority of players. So, the main goal was achieved. Now we get to see if he can improve.
     
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  24. Haplo Arbiter Patron

    Haplo
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    Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Personally I found the release version pretty good. Of course it only improved from there.
    It helped that I was never in love with the IE games. I respected them for their scope and was really impressed by the magic systems, but still my most beloved IE engine game was Planescape Torment. I also valued Fallout way higher then BG or BG2. So I wasn't as attached to the old formula.
    For me the engine bar to exceed was rather NWN. Even it's clean GUI I liked way more.

    PoE did make a very good impression on me. Very varied classes, with actual different gameplay mechanics. Lots of active skills and modals. Actual build variety. Extremely good system for a first try, that was my impression.
    More interesting and dynamic combat then in the old titles.

    However this also led to my pretty much only reservation. Too high magic, too intense skill spam, too many fireworks. After level 12, the characters already felt like demi-gods. And often too difficult to read clusterfucks.
     
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  25. Iznaliu Arbiter

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    While mainstream game reviews are bad, they aren't that bad.
     
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