Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Codex Interview Jarl interviews Swen Vincke; Questions about Original Sin 2 and other things are answered.

Discussion in 'RPG News & Content' started by JarlFrank, Jun 21, 2017.

  1. Viatagender: ⚧ Arcane

    Viata
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    Great writing you got there, Larian.
     
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  2. anduingender: ⚧ Arbiter

    anduin
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    Hey JarlFrank , what did you do to Swen ?
     
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  3. Viatagender: ⚧ Arcane

    Viata
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    Clearly something harder than cocaine.
     
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  4. V_Kgender: ⚧ Arcane

    V_K
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    Ok, I've seen enough depravity on the Codex, but retards arguing that TB is inferior to RT(wP) in this thread are just too fucking much.
     
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  5. twincastgender: ⚧ Learned Patron In My Safe Space

    twincast
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    ...'Cause master tacticians in history won battles by LARPing chess...
     
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  6. Aenragender: ⚧ Guest

    Aenra
    I want you to take a nice big breath, clear your mind and then read your post one more time.
     
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  7. Quillongender: ⚧ Scholar

    Quillon
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    Again listing stuff you can already do in RTwP. Just cos you have to pause yourself, RTwP is all about reflexes?

    You just can't reference real life to support TB for its unrealistic as fuck. Show me where it says giving an individual orders, seeing the results, WITH THAT KNOWLEDGE giving another individual orders...buut actually both actions happens simultaneously.

    RTwP's only unrealistic part is that you can pause, otherwise it entails whatever you could ever say about tactics.

    You either don't like or can't handle RTwP but stop with "TB is more tactical" nonsense.
     
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  8. Aenragender: ⚧ Guest

    Aenra
    Just so.
    Either you suffer from ADHD or you're cursed with a low intellect; barely 5 posts down and there you are, having lost track already. Why do you children bother with forums? All that typing, surely it's a deterrent.
    This wasn't a disagreement about which can do what (or not), but rather which offers it in a package more shall we say in line? Better representing? The essence of tactics, ie what it entails from a gameplay perspective.

    So assuming you grasp what tactics refer to in any given combat scenario (which clearly you do not), here you are telling me i'm wrong nonetheless. Basing it where? On the fact that RTwP's """only""" unrealistic part is.. unrealistic, you said it yourself. And yet somehow, it's better nonetheless... and you wonder why people disagree with you, thinking TB is more appropriate, lol
    Again. Quit the forum posting, it's not good for millennials. We'll soon have the Surgeon General issuing a warning or two to assist with that, but until then try and employ some initiative.
     
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  9. Make America Great Again ERYFKRADgender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

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    Looks like one of his girlfriends' kid got on him with a box of crayons/what-have-you.
     
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  10. Quillongender: ⚧ Scholar

    Quillon
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    Wow. Such selective perception. Do you even read bro? :P
     
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  11. Fingender: ⚧ Unwanted Edgy

    Unwanted
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    Just so.
    Either you suffer from EXTRWA MEANAL POPTARTDATION or ur cursed with low sperm count; barely 1 pos1 and there you are, having lost track already. Why do dicksucks bother with forums? All that typing,already make a mack brain hurt.
    You are a burst hurt who make milloin of post saing soyimg mean thangs to peole, write large austical text tht naver gat ur point nail across and can't handle it csuz younaber gat suport from mammy and aunty fisha.
    Only ghing i have tasay to uyo is, hitler shluld fill ur blue jew azzhole so he can make more blonde hair blue eyes dick slaves
     
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  12. JarlFrankgender: ⚧ I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
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    I like real time. The battles of the Total War series are some of the greatest fun I ever had in gaming (until I grew bored by the bad AI but that's not the mechanics' fault), and I play Age of Empires 2 in multiplayer a lot. I also enjoy Diablo and its clones.

    But for RPGs, turn based is still better than RtwP if you control more than one character. The only time real time is acceptable is when you play one char, and then the combat should be fast and actiony rather than slow RtwP.

    In strategy games, microng your units in real time is totally fine. You generally tend to have large amounts of units, or squads of units rather than individuals (like in Total War), and you don't have to micro every single unit's exact behavior every second. It's ok to just tell your archers to fire at that position, or to tell your cavalry to flank, or your wizard to throw a fireball on the enemy swordsmen squad. Something like Total War battles gives you the experience of being a battlefield commander: you give orders to squads of units, and you win by outmaneuvering the enemy, taking out his valuable ranged units (artillery, archers) by flanking and getting behind the front line, etc etc.

    In a RtwP RPG it's not like that. You don't command an army. You command between 2 and 8 dudes/girls who have very specialized skills and every action they take should be deliberate. You have to cast spells and aim them - and often in RtwP RPGs, the spellcasting takes time, so area effect spells are a bitch to use. You cast fireball but since casting takes a second, the enemy might already be out of its AoE. Flanking and other maneuvers are also not as easily doable as in aires. egy game such as Total War or Age of Empires, because you tend to have additional rules such as attacks of opportunity which are a bitch to evade in real time - in turn based, walking around any possible AoOs is much easier, because controlling your characters is more precise.

    The unique gameplay element of the RPG - having several highly specialized characters with different skills, spells and special abilities - makes it much better suited for turn based gameplay than real time.
    Only a complete idiot would compare the command of 6-dude-RPG-party to the command of an army cause they're 2 different things. Unless you want to tell me that Caesar and Napoleon micromanaged every single soldier's every move but then you're also a complete idiot.
     
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  13. Aenragender: ⚧ Guest

    Aenra
    Who is that illiterate newfaggot above and why does it have Roguey's avatar?
     
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  14. Zerielgender: ⚧ Arcane

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    Looks like a standard Roguey post to me.
     
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  15. Make America Great Again ERYFKRADgender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

    ERYFKRAD
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    A Roguey post is at least grammatically adequate.
     
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  16. Quillongender: ⚧ Scholar

    Quillon
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    All in all nothing you say prove "TB is more tactical", which is my whole argument in this thread. I like RTwP and I don't accept TB lovers' claim that it is "more tactical", "easier to manage" doesn't mean "more tactical". In fact TB is more limiting than what you can do in RTwP, if you can manage. Also will your opinion change when you'll be able to re-target AoEs before they go off? Was that RTwP's fault or the games that haven't implemented such a feature?
     
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  17. JarlFrankgender: ⚧ I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
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    Honestly if you like micromanaging your skills in real time just go play DOTA or some shit
     
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  18. Quillongender: ⚧ Scholar

    Quillon
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    Nope I like managing my skills on pause and see them in action in RT.
     
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  19. Jimmiousgender: ⚧ Magister

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    And then pause again after 1 second because something changed. And then again after 2. And again. And again.
    Oh such fun we having in this combat! Tactical fun!
     
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  20. Lacrymasgender: ⚧ Arcane

    Lacrymas
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    In RTwP you can pause however frequently you like, it's not like an RTS where you don't have that luxury, so "it's more skillful because it's faster and you have to control many characters at once!" is nonsense.
     
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  21. DeepOceangender: ⚧ Arcane

    DeepOcean
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    I like TB better mostly for two reasons:
    1)RtwP and lots of active skills or complex combat rules, it is just a nightmare, even with pause. You have each one of your six guys doing backflips at the same time while you have to track what each enemy is doing, so you have to pay attention to potentially 12 or more characters at the same time. The only way to solve this is to dumbdown combat and restrict options so you can actually keep track of things. I don't think this is a good solution.

    2)You can focus on what a single character is doing on a certain part of the combat , you get the information you need and act out on it getting a chance to plan for each move.
     
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  22. Quillongender: ⚧ Scholar

    Quillon
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    I'm not arguing RTwP is better, unlike most of you retards who can't respect other peoples' preferences. I'm saying I prefer RTwP, I enjoy it more and the fact that it allows more tactical options than TB. To utilize that you may have to pause frequently/know when to act/be more aware etc.

    And you don't have to pause every milisecond or play RTwP perfectly unless you're doing a near impossible achievement or something. Devs aren't putting difficulty options or AI for nothing.

    So why I prefer RTwP over TB which defies reality on every turn? Zero immersion. Slow as fuck. "But I can control one character at a time so its manageable; I have time think on one thing at a time for as long as I want so it makes me feels like a tactical genius...oh TB such a tactical system!". Its fucking tabletop on computer, an insult to processing power and its a combat system saw its limits, you can only improve it so much while RTwP has ways to go.
     
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  23. JarlFrankgender: ⚧ I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
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    That's where you're wrong kiddo
     
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  24. DeepOceangender: ⚧ Arcane

    DeepOcean
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    Please define the word tactics, I don't know what you mean by it. Played all Infinite Engine games because I'm a sucker for RPGs and play even the ones with shitty combat and there isn't all that much of tactics on those games, most combats on those games were pretty simplistic affairs involving alot of auto attacks, the occasional kiting and on the more complicated battles, some crowd control and AoE spells here and there. As you just mentioned, pausing every second on those games aren't required because even AI bots can pass through most of the combat encounters so I highly doubt of the "tactical" nature of those games.
    AI always suck, if people use it successfully, it means the combat is so simplistic that even a brain dead robot can do it and this speak bad for RtwP. If to solve the problem of crazy micromanaging, the solution is to lower the difficulty, then there is something that isn't really working on the combat system in the first place as it can't handle complexity. You should ever be demanded to lower the difficulty on a game to "solve" this, this is just plain bad game design.
    I already seen this argument many times, RPGs, especially traditional RPGs, aren't action games. If you demand a traditional rpg to have its combat gutted and dumbdown to almost the level of an action game sot it is more "immersive" (whatever the immersive word means), it would be more honest to say you want an action game with RPG elements, what is fine, but this immersion argument seems like people avoiding to say what they truly want and coming with subjective terms that mean nothing because they don't want to say they prefer action combat over tactical combat and lose their cool credits .
    Now this is non-sense. This futuristic rethoric always make me suspicious, I hear it alot on the likes of IGN, Eurogamer, Gamespot and with all those hipsters that can't say they don't like tactics and prefer action because they fear people would think they are dumb so they come with this mumbo jumbo of processing power and outdated mechanics and all those logic empty "arguments". What is the problem of playing tabletop on the PC? Something new isn't necessarily better and people who think this, are pretty happy grinding coloured loot on Destiny for hours, Destiny makes good use of all this new processing power too so obviously, it is a better game than those outdated RPGs.
     
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  25. Quillongender: ⚧ Scholar

    Quillon
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    Whatever you can to in a TB system, you can do better in RTwP, simultaneous actions by multple characters, whatever you call it.

    And no, I'm talking for RTwP here not action game/non stop direct control.


    Aaand fuck it. Arguing against TB here is like arguing against Sony elsewhere. Enjoy your TB game selection from 100 small incompetent studios + Larian.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
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