JA2 vanilla vs 1.13

[Okagron]

I actually only made two because i came to that conclusion too. I think it's a neat addition but 6 IMP mercs is overkill.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

It is a wise choice. Full 1.13 experience is sensory overload for people who didn't play JA2 as vanilla first.

i played ja2 for the first time just a few years ago. and i went in dry 1.13. if i can have something more complex and complete, why should i settle for less?

 

[veevoir]

Because vanilla is also complex and complete.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

not enough apparently, if the world needed and praised 1.13.

 

[Serus]

not enough apparently, if the world needed and praised 1.13.

No one really "needed" it. It just came to be. Which is great because there is a lot of very good stuff in that mod. I like 1.13 but that's not saying JA2 vanilla doesn't have merits over 1.13.
You playing it "A few years ago" might also make a difference. "A few years ago" 1.13 was less bloated with (more or less useful) additional options and, arguably, was less bugged as well.






I also think Infinitron (or whomever is responsible) should die a horrible, painful death for keeping JA 2 threads outside of General RPG Discussion.

 

[octavius]

So I have Fox in the squad and I tried to recruit Buns. Last time I tried that, with Straticella, she refused to join because of Fox. But this time, with 1.13 Vanilla, she would join 'cause she likes Sidney Nettleson, but the problem is Sidney is not in the squad. Should I be worried?
OTOH Gasket quit due to Igor being in the same squad, so that is as it should be, I guess.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

was less bugged as wel

that's definitely true i tried it lasy year (or two?) again and i couldn't get past the first area because of bugs.

 

[Urthor]

Trying to mud wrestle this game into working on Windows 10. Has anyone successfully been able to make the game run Windowed after the most recent service pack? The ini is saying "cannot automatically change desktop color depth to 16bit" and refusing to give me working Windowed mode even after I set compatibility to Windows 95 and colours to 16 bit by right clicking the EXE

Edit: after a long and vicious struggle I just put compatibility mode for every single on of the EXEs in my folder and it worked.

My only conclusion is that I better play JA2 fast before Windows breaks and this game becomes permanently unplayable on modern PCs

 

[octavius]

Isn't it funny when Windows Upgrades in practice function like malware? I've had a couple of games no longer working due to Win 7 upgrades. I shudder to think how the situation would have been with Win 10.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Did those not work for you? They come with the 1.13 mod and every thread on Bear's Pit regarding Windows issues tells you to use them as well as JA2 1.13 Wiki.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

Gasket quit due to Igor being in the same squad, so that is as it should be, I guess.

I played my whole game with those two? That was vanilla JA2, though.

 

[octavius]

Did those not work for you? They come with the 1.13 mod and every thread on Bear's Pit regarding Windows issues tells you to use them as well as JA2 1.13 Wiki.

Isn't that just to fix stuttering and make the game run smoother?

 

[octavius]

Gasket quit due to Igor being in the same squad, so that is as it should be, I guess.

I played my whole game with those two? That was vanilla JA2, though.

In the same squad?

 

[SausageInYourFace]

Hm, that I can't remember. But since I played through most of the game with them, I figure they probably were in the same squad at some point. But you are right, Gasket dislikes both Dolvichs. I probably just avoided him quitting on me, I used him as repair monkey anyway.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Gasket is the cheapest repair monkey and you just dump him at your main base (Drassen airfield) to endlessly repair stuff. Not too hard to keep the Russians away from him.

 

[octavius]

Refueling bug.

Fortunately I was able to fix it by using the alternative refueling system, and using an older save, but I came close to rage quitting.

 

[Serus]

Gasket is the cheapest repair monkey and you just dump him at your main base (Drassen airfield) to endlessly repair stuff. Not too hard to keep the Russians away from him.

Why would you want Gasket to do that ? Or for anything at all for that matter. It's not that the game lacks cheap (or free) repairmen that also can fight and keep stuff in good condition (Dimitri, Maddog, Dynamo, plus several cheap hire-able mercs - who can fight and repair stuff when needed) ?

 

[GarfunkeL]

Because of how long repairing stuff takes and because you get more money from selling 100% condition items. So I leave Gasket at Drassen fixing up stuff while the team goes rampaging across the country side. When they get back, they dump broken stuff and equip pristine gear. Meanwhile Hamous shuttles by himself between Drassen and San Mona, selling surplus gear there.

 

[octavius]

There seems to be a bug where enemies that are incapacitated due to grenades sometimes are impossible to hit.
Anyone else seen this?

 

[gaussgunner]

So I have Fox in the squad and I tried to recruit Buns. Last time I tried that, with Straticella, she refused to join because of Fox. But this time, with 1.13 Vanilla, she would join 'cause she likes Sidney Nettleson, but the problem is Sidney is not in the squad. Should I be worried?
OTOH Gasket quit due to Igor being in the same squad, so that is as it should be, I guess.

Dunno about 1.13, but I just picked up vanilla 1.12 and made the same mistake, only I hired Buns first. So I put them on different squads, problem solved. If you can't hire her if you already have Fox in squad, that's just retarded.

Ever had the husband/wife team Raven & Raider in the same squad as Hitman? He makes a cuck out of Raider.

 

[GarfunkeL]

What, really?! I only seldom hire Hitman so I've never encountered that. Man, next game.

Octavius, there is reduced chance to hit prone enemies, especially if they are behind a rock or tree.

 

[octavius]

Octavius, there is reduced chance to hit prone enemies, especially if they are behind a rock or tree.

But the displayed CTH is still high. The CTH display seems a bit bugged too, though. Sometimes it reports a high chance, but the merc in question complains about not getting a good shot.
So it leads to scumsaving when the numbers reported is not the actual hit chance.
If the game was less buggy I would have considered an Ironman run.

 

[Plisken]

I love 1.13 but the amount of options "out of the box" were a bit overwhelming. And while documentation is extensive, its not well organised.

I also had to switch from new CTH to old, which improved the game massively. I'm not sure who thinks new CTH is better because its fucking not, and the AI acts more retarded with it on (basically they just rush you like lemmings instead of using cover or camping), and theres nothing fun about experienced marksman not being able to hit someone 20 yards away. The argument against old CTH was that it favored snipers too much, but this is usually a complaint fielded by realismpedantics, which is ironic, because IRL favors snipers too, thats why they spend so much time and money training the fucking pricks and spend comparatively little time and money training a SAW gunner. To me it just seems a little silly if you want to attempt to turn the game into a combat sim and then turn around and complain that people who can hit what they are aiming at from really long distances are *too* effective.

and besides, with the re-enabled suppression features from 1.13 it mostly makes non-marksman useful again.

 

[Serus]

Octavius, there is reduced chance to hit prone enemies, especially if they are behind a rock or tree.

But the displayed CTH is still high. The CTH display seems a bit bugged too, though. Sometimes it reports a high chance, but the merc in question complains about not getting a good shot.
So it leads to scumsaving when the numbers reported is not the actual hit chance.
If the game was less buggy I would have considered an Ironman run.

What version are you playing ?
CTH being high and at the same time merc complaining that he can't hit IIRC usually means that the target is obscured by something but if that wasn't the case he would be easy to hit. So not a bug (or usually not a bug).

 

[Serus]

I love 1.13 but the amount of options "out of the box" were a bit overwhelming. And while documentation is extensive, its not well organised.

I also had to switch from new CTH to old, which improved the game massively. I'm not sure who thinks new CTH is better because its fucking not, and the AI acts more retarded with it on (basically they just rush you like lemmings instead of using cover or camping), and theres nothing fun about experienced marksman not being able to hit someone 20 yards away. The argument against old CTH was that it favored snipers too much, but this is usually a complaint fielded by realismpedantics, which is ironic, because IRL favors snipers too, thats why they spend so much time and money training the fucking pricks and spend comparatively little time and money training a SAW gunner. To me it just seems a little silly if you want to attempt to turn the game into a combat sim and then turn around and complain that people who can hit what t hey are aiming at from really long distances are *too* effective.

and besides, with the re-enabled suppression features from 1.13 it mostly makes non-marksman useful again.

The new CTH IS better. Enemies only had the problem you described at the very beginning (in some earlier versions) when they had crap pistols in first few combats. Also the new CTH had its numbers not well tweaked in base 1.13 for a long time. However there are mods that makes it work very well from the start.
The problem with old CTH is not with snipers hitting things - the problem is with anyone being able to hit things way too reliably. You're making a straw man.
And you can reliably hit stuff at longer distances than you claim with new CTH, it just requires more skill and better equipment than it used to. Another straw man.
Also 20 meters in game was never simply 20 meters. As you can clearly see most distances are divided by a factor of 10 in JA2. A gun with 200m effective firing range irl = 20 squares in game. So those 20 squates are at the same time 20m and 200m in a manner of speaking. Such is the abstraction used by the devs of original JA2.

In the end what matters is if a game system works. And new CTH not only works well but also gives a more varied experience compared to the old one. Most people disliked nCTH because it was for a long time (maybe still is - look for mods in this case) badly balanced in the base 1.13. Also it made the game slightly more challenging - most people despite claiming to like challenge, like winning even more so there is that as possible cause. Maybe not.