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JA2 vanilla vs 1.13

Severian Silk

Guest
JA2 1.12 is the tutorial.

Also, last time I played CTH was real low until you got reflex scopes and then CTH got like a million times better. I did not enjoy that playthrough.
 

Khor1255

Arcane
Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
58,470
Yes, because we all play games for bullshit clutter errr, stuff...

dumbfuck.gif
Yes, you are.
 

Kaucukovnik

Cipher
Joined
Mar 26, 2009
Messages
488
You can disable pretty much every 1.13 feature you don't like. There's no reason not to use it unless you are a purist.
It adds so much that at least 1 purist playthrough beforehand is encouraged. 1.13 pretty much can make JA2 into a different game.

I remember being very annoyed by the 100AP system of 1.13, coming from original's 25. So it might be a good idea to make a minimal 1.13 config anyway, just to be getting used to the numbers. Every action taking 4 times as much AP as before feels very wrong for some time.

I think 1.13 could use a setup tool that would guide the player through the most important INI settings, like counterattacks, max.number of enemies in sector at once, economy, etc. You can turn the game into a blitzkrieg or prolonged war of attrition, redshirt flood or sparse elite opposition, or even start the game as if it was already endgame in most respects.
The INI editor is pretty good, but the options are overwhelming for a newcommer. I don't think many people finished their first 1.13 game without reconfiguring and restarting at some point.

Overheating feature is pretty great, as it gives machineguns their proper edge at sustained fire. Not so fond on dirt & cleaning, as that one just adds busywork and an item to carry. And I like to bump explosives damage to 200%, all explosions ,maybe except for mortars, feel too weak at default. Well, I have never been near an exploding grenade, but I don't think I'd just get knocked over and bruised.

I really like what they did with the inventory and guns. The amount of weapons and attachments moved it from vanilla's linear climb with "tickboxes" to search for compatibility and usability. Range stat is no longer the only real distinction of quality, so the duct-taped barrel extender is just a temporary half-assery and gets replaced by suppressor or muzzle break on good guns. You can pick your scope depending on how much versatility and sharpshooting you need, with tunnel vision and aiming speed and all that jazz.
No other game has me looking for a "not too heavy rifle with effective range around 400m that can take a 4-6x scope, a suppressor + subsonic ammo in stock, preferably of a common caliber".
Damn, gotta install JA2 once again, soon. :)

Have they reimplemented the pre-seeded RNG from vanilla? I liked how it forced me to try something different during my turn and not just reload the shit out of my 5% hit chance to save my skin in a pinch.
 
Last edited:

GarfunkeL

Racism Expert
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
15,463
Location
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No, they still don't have pre-seeded RNG. You can save-scum if that's your preference.

The 100 AP is better than 25 AP because it allows for finer granularity with finetuning actions but especially weapons. Previously you couldn't really differentiate the guns that much but in 1.13 they could, so a revolver with a heavy trigger takes a couple of APs more to fire than a semi-automatic with a light one. And so no. As you said, no longer do you just compare the range, because both the accuracy of a gun and the amount of AP it takes to ready it and fire it matter.
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
Drop-all is pretty annoying I think, there's too much stuff to clean up.
First, there's an instant-sack button that lets you sack the loot, albeit at greatly reduced payout (or possibly no payout, depending on your config settings). Secondly, what are you, the Arulco EPA? What are they gonna do if you just leave it on the jungle floor, fine you?
 

GarfunkeL

Racism Expert
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
15,463
Location
Insert clever insult here
Hey, I'm not sure if this is a 1.13 bug or a vanilla bug, I have a vague memory that it has happened in previous games. The problem is that Hans does not let me in the back to see Tony. I got rid of the lesbian by giving her the video tape, Hans is very friendly talking to my leadership=80 guy but regardless of the time of the day, he won't move. Am I fucked or is there something I can do to repair this issue?
 

Popot

Educated
Joined
Oct 21, 2010
Messages
60
Blow up the wall and bypass Hans, or edit the 1.13 configs to have 100% chance of Tony appearing.
 

sser

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
1,866,661
Posting this here for posterity.

I had issues getting the game to run smoothly on my laptop which is Windows 10. Basically, I could get it to run 1.13 after setting compatibility to Windows 8, but the game (in particular, the mouse) was very laggy.

Took this fix from Steam:

Originally posted by Avada Kedavra:
Hope this would help someone.

1. Go to http://www.nongnu.org/wined3d/

2. Look for:
Full directory (with older versions, patches...): http://download.savannah.nongnu.org/releases/wined3d

3. Than look for v1.1.38 / 24-Jun-2013 20:02
4. Download the wined3d.exe
5. Extract It with 7zip.
6. Copy ddraw.dll, libwine.dll and wined3d.dll from extracted $SYSDIR folder into the root folder of your JA2 installation

7. ???????
8. PROFIT

Worked like a charm. Amazing how people can figure this stuff out.
 

zool

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2009
Messages
897
Re: the never-ending question about whether a first-time player should play vanilla or modded 1.13 :

In my mind, there is absolutely NO WAY someone who has never played the game will be able to properly set up 1.13 - and the most likely result will be a frustrating, unbalanced and unpolished experience, which is really a shame for such an awesome game.

So my advice to first-time players would be : play the vanilla game first (1.06 or 1.12, doesn't matter much). It's a great game on its own and, among its many qualities, it is well-balanced and polished. You will aslo save yourself the trouble of spending hours rummaging through the INI editor and re-starting the game several times because of issues with the way you've setup the game.
 

boot

Prophet
Joined
Dec 20, 2015
Messages
1,016
Location
Bartow, FL
^My first playthrough was with 1.13. I'll always recommend the 4870 build, doesn't require much or any tweaking in my opinion, you can easily make necessary changes as you go along. Later builds do not add much value and many questionable mods are enabled by default. Sorting it all out takes a very long time.

Vanilla JA2 has it's own charm, but 1.13 is better. I think it's that simple.
 
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
8,818
Location
Italy
first playthrough absolutely blind and with 1.13.
finished the game and even had very little trouble with the whatsitsname first city counterattack.
and i'm definitely not the sharpest tool in the box.
 

Burning Bridges

Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk
Joined
Apr 21, 2006
Messages
27,562
Location
Tampon Bay
You must get an older version of 1.13, from ca 2008-2010 . The newer ones are retarded shit because the good people left long ago. I have last played with version 2xxx and 3xxx and there was a gradual increase in shitness.
 

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
6,761
You must get an older version of 1.13, from ca 2008-2010 . The newer ones are retarded shit because the good people left long ago. I have last played with version 2xxx and 3xxx and there was a gradual increase in shitness.
So which is it? boot recommends the 4870 build, you recommend any 3k or 2k build.. well, which is the build to play if you don't want a stupid first time play through?
 

boot

Prophet
Joined
Dec 20, 2015
Messages
1,016
Location
Bartow, FL
Comes down to opinion. You can try reading through the build notes for specific versions and find one that sounds good. 4870 has a double click install floating around, so you won't have to download JA2 1.12 gold and then patch it. That's nice.

Just stay away from more recent versions, at least for now. I think that is the consensus.

My favorite features from 1.13 are HAM suppression and New Inventory System. If you pick one out yourself I'd look for a build with those things. Very early builds may not have them.
 

Ninjerk

Arcane
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
14,323
The inventory system where you can customize your LBE is crucial IMO. The last time I played was a complete tacticool spergout.
 

Burning Bridges

Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk
Joined
Apr 21, 2006
Messages
27,562
Location
Tampon Bay
You must get an older version of 1.13, from ca 2008-2010 . The newer ones are retarded shit because the good people left long ago. I have last played with version 2xxx and 3xxx and there was a gradual increase in shitness.
So which is it? boot recommends the 4870 build, you recommend any 3k or 2k build.. well, which is the build to play if you don't want a stupid first time play through?

I personally have version 3042 installed. That was long before they included the ugly new mercs and other stuff that should never have been made, but with new inventory and resolution support.
 

zool

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2009
Messages
897
Yeah, I personally have a perma-install of JA2 1.13 version 3318 with HAM 3.6 beta added on top of it. It works like a charm (very few crashes) and I've edited the INI to my liking over the years, so the game is fun and balanced in all aspects.

As has been said, a lot of useless and unbalanced features have been added over the years. The only really essential feature in 1.13 to me (and the main reason why I don't go back to playing vanilla) is automatic fire and the accompanying HAM suppression mechanic. It really added a lot of energy and dynamism to the fights - there's nothing like ordering your prone machinegunner to use all his APS to fire with his bipod-equipped Minimi onto a group of red shirts

I enjoy other things like higher resolution, new inventory system, new guns, facilities but honestly, I wouldn't consider them essential.

Lately, I've been wanting to add the JA: DG mercs to my AIM/MERC roster to add more variety while sticking to a strict Sirtech-made only policy when it comes to mercs : however, I'm not sure how to do that without upgrading to a newer version of JA2. Anybody knows if that's feasible? If not, anybody knows in which 1.13 version they were added?
 

Burning Bridges

Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk
Joined
Apr 21, 2006
Messages
27,562
Location
Tampon Bay
I assume mercs are hardcoded as they use individual punchlines and backstories. So you would need to access the sourcecode and spend months if not years to understand it.

As to new vs old mercs I can only say

ia1ru.jpg
 

kyrub

Augur
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
347
Yeah, I personally have a perma-install of JA2 1.13 version 3318 with HAM 3.6 beta added on top of it. It works like a charm (very few crashes) and I've edited the INI to my liking over the years, so the game is fun and balanced in all aspects.

Do you have the install files for this? Or do you know where can I find it?
 

zool

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2009
Messages
897
I assume mercs are hardcoded as they use individual punchlines and backstories. So you would need to access the sourcecode and spend months if not years to understand it.

As to new vs old mercs I can only say

ia1ru.jpg

No, all the work has already been done by modders and all the JA: DG mercs have been properly integrated to 1.13 a few years ago. Normally, if you install one of the latest 1.13 versions, you should have the option to have the JA: DG mercs availableto recruit on MERC and AIM websites.

And I'm talking about the JA : Deadly Games mercs of course, not those abominations from JA: BIA.


Yeah, I personally have a perma-install of JA2 1.13 version 3318 with HAM 3.6 beta added on top of it. It works like a charm (very few crashes) and I've edited the INI to my liking over the years, so the game is fun and balanced in all aspects.

Do you have the install files for this? Or do you know where can I find it?

Looking on my HD, I do have the Single Click installers for 1.13 version 3287 and a zip file called "HAM_3.6b_on_rev_3318". Whenever I launch my JA2 game, the version number that appears right before the main menu is "rev 3318 with HAM 3.6 Beta". I set it up years ago, so my memory is a bit hazy but I'm pretty sure I used 3287 as a base and then installed HAM 3.6 over it. Anyway, the HAM 3.6 readme says it can be installed on top of version 1203 or higher, so 3287 is more than enough.

If you're interested, I can upload the SCI for version 3287 (91mb) and the HAM 3.6 zip file (4mb).
 

Wizfall

Cipher
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
816
I would absolutely not recommend anyone starting with 1.13 instead of vanilla.
While 1.13 is much better, it needs lot of .ini and XML customization to make it works, otherwise it completely mess the balance (scopes, DCA, helicopter's travel, tanks early on...) and numerous aspects of the game.
However that you like 1.13 or not, it is very stable, more than 3 years i played with it (on two differents system), each time switching to to the newest version with very few issues if any.

Newest 1.13 version are better than older ones because even if they may add lot of things that may be unnecessary/annoying, they improve some other aspects of the game (like the AI).
The drawback is that it requires even more customizations.
Fortunately almost everything is customizable.
 

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