Decline J_C fails his Codex check...again - Betrayal at Krondor is the best RPG ever, but I'm not feeling it

[octavius]

This whole business about the "inconvenience" of having to take down fucking notes in a CRPG that is more than 20 years old is perhaps the most inane thing I have ever read on the 'dex since Andhaira's infamous Fallout thread.

How the fuck do you people tie your shoelaces every morning.

Velcro.

 

[abnaxus]

OP will never finish this.

Anyway, late game chapters with Gorath-Owyn are awesome, while James-Locklear chapters are dreary. Especially with that idiot Patras around.

 

[J_C]

That's actually cool, but I'm curious if things like the tuning fork, or the purpose of the 3 dozens spells are really explained by anyone in the game. I have my doubts. So the only thing that remains - as you said - is experimentation. But should I really start to use the tuning fork on every creature, every NPC, at every city, until finally something happens? That is fun for somebody?

When you realize that that obscure piece of lore about trolls being susceptible to high pitch sounds you found in the book about tactics in Sarth and that ramblings of an old war veteran about scaring trolls shitless by noise suddenly make sense in the gameworld, and there are actually tools given to your disposal, that you can use.

I don't mind explonations like this, it is really neat. I was just afraid that these things are never explained in any shape or form.

Heck, you are not expected to find out all secrets during one playthrough (I found out the trick about tunning fork on my fourth run).

To be honest, this will be my only playthrough. Not becaue the game is bad, but because I'm trying to play through my huge backlog, and I will be happy if I can play everything one time until I die of old age. So I don't have the luxure of figuring out stuff for the 4th time. I know this is not an excuse, but this is how it is.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

Some people ITT should really stop pretending that any kind criticism of the holy BaK is really so incredibly unusual und unjustified for first time players. It is actually not:

It's hard to get used to the pace of this game. There's so much text to read, and it's easy to miss stuff, both written as well as visually in the 3D area which is rather cumbersome to navigate, so I have to force myself to take things slowly even though speeding through a game is not my usual style.
(...)
All in all I'm enjoying it, but so far it does not look like I'll have to edit my entry in the Top 25 CRPGs thread.

And Wyrmlord, how did you figure out that using a tuning fork scares away trolls?

You guys should keep in mind that playing through a game for the first time is quite a different experience than judging it in hindsight after numerous playthroughs. The tuning fork issue is a great example. You oldtimers know what it does, you played through the game already. A new player will most likely get his ass handed to him by trolls numerous times, not understanding what the hell is going on, without being aware that the option to chase them off even exists, unless he accidentally came accross some very well hidden information. I don't buy that hiding this information in some random book in some random city is great design, you guys can easily argue how awesome that is in hindsight because you already played through the game numerous times and know whats up. You simply won't encounter certain issues anymore. You know the game in and out. You know how to deal with trolls already. New players will just get raped by trolls until they either drop the game or look shit up in a walkthrough. You won't get fucked by Black Slayers because you know how to deal with them already. You won't get stuck, not being able to advance to the next chapter because some criticial item is hidden in a riddle box whose riddle you can't solve - not that a first time player would ever be aware of that, because he would not know that he'd even need that item nor where to find it, he would probably just stumble around in the game wondering how to progress. But you guys probably know the solution to every riddle box and know to what persons to talk to and you know exactly what to do at every point in the game to advance. So you have an easy time responding 'lol just explore everything you retard, I had no problems whatsoever when I played through the whole game at the age of 7. I never got stuck, not even once, you are just too dumb to figure it out for yourself, trololo'. But is that really true?

It strikes me as very dishonest. Most likely you had pretty similar problems when you played it for the first time. And most likely something like this occured:

I had done everything, everything in Chapter 3, but left the game for weeks or maybe months baffled about what to do.

If I had played the game blindly, withouth consulting your Let's Play, I would probably never had found out who Navon really was, and how he ended up with the Spyglass.

-
(Note that I did not dig up that old thread on purpose and I was not addressing my post at octavius. I rather found that thread on accident while searching for some information and found the quotes illustrated my point quite well because they obviously are first time impressions)

 

[Rhuantavan]

OP will never finish this.

Anyway, late game chapters with Gorath-Owyn are awesome, while James-Locklear chapters are dreary. Especially with that idiot Patrus around.

He may be an idiot, but man is he (Patrus) fun.

 

[octavius]

SausageInYourFace, yes, the game didn't immediately grab me, but neither was it anywhere near turning me off. It was more like I was not prepared for the massive amounts of texts in such an old game, but I soon learnt that screen capturing every piece of potentially useful information was a good idea.

My memory is a bit fussy, but I think the first time I played I explored quite thoroughly and encountered the trolls. I was also comparing notes with Wyrmlord's Let's Play as I was playing the game, and sometimes I read too far ahead and got spoilt, so I noticed him using the tuning fork. Anyhow at this stage I had decided that I played the game wrongly; I should not explore to the east and north, but instead head for Krondor and generally just role play the game, so I restarted the game.
I'm pretty sure I found out about the tuning fork in a later chapter, but IIRC I my party never had any reason to encounter the trolls in my restarted game.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

Yeah, I didn't mean to take out the piss on you by digging up old quotes, just wanted to demonstrate to everybody that there are reoccuring issues people seem to encounter with BaK, particularly playing the game for the first time.

Even Wyrmlord who wrote that comprehensive LP dropped the game at one point not knowing what the hell to do, so we should be less judgmental when other people run into similar problems.

 

[Xorazm]

SausageInYourFace is absolutely right that the game is a little too dense for its own good. It's easy to get nostalgic for the days when games held _something_ back, when nowadays slurpring, braindead abominations like Dragon Age: Inquisition can hoover up GOTY awards with dazzling quests like "Find me 10 bear hides!" and 14 variations on "Can you go check on my lover while I remain rooted to this spot for weeks on end?" The cure, however, isn't holding your virtues too close to your chest and BaK's slow initial sales and eventual cult status (despite its grand depth) is proof of that. It's a breath of fresh air that a game errs on the side of density and player retention in an age when games don't even have density to err on, but I think it's fair to say that it tends to err.

Having said all that - c'mon, debating whether the game fairly explains tuning forks when you've decided to comb the entirety of the kingdom in Chapter frickin' One is nit-pickery of the highest order. You shouldn't been runnin' from dem trolls anyway - gotta slaughter each and every one for dat sweet XP.

 

[RK47]

Still can't believe I finished this game nearly 15 years ago. I thought it was gonna be a crappy FMV Blobber ala Might & Magic, but I was wrong.
One combat later and I was hooked. Good times trying to solve those puzzle chests and finding out the safest path to the next chapter transition.
It can certainly do away with the mundane equipment maintenance but I thought using those mundane objects add to the charm.
It has a very 'adventure - RPG' hybrid vibe going that is unlike any other games these days. And the fact that the item combo system is really Dynamix standard feature in their adventure games made me very comfortable with it, somewhat.

Amazing they accomplished the overall package with the sort of limited tech they had back then.

 

[flushfire]

So you have an easy time responding 'lol just explore everything you retard, I had no problems whatsoever when I played through the whole game at the age of 7. I never got stuck, not even once, you are just too dumb to figure it out for yourself, trololo'. But is that really true?

Yes.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Prince Arutha, from his lofty perch,
Will find our troops without a search,
His men will fall, his castle too,
And then, what will Prince Arutha do?



Gotta love those lockchests.

 

[Boleskine]

I'm looking forward to impressions of Betrayal in Antara.

 

[RK47]

That one bored the hell out of me.
I had high hopes for it, but the character felt too bland and the content quality seems sub-par overall.

 

[J_C]

Prince Arutha, from his lofty perch,
Will find our troops without a search,
His men will fall, his castle too,
And then, what will Prince Arutha do?

Die. That's one that I could actually figure out myself. But to be honest, I have to look up walkthroughs for 80% of them. I don't know if that's because I'm not a native speaker, or the puzzles are too hard, but I can't solve most of them (please spare me the OH J_ C YOU ARE SO DUMB lines). I just can't believe that someone in his first playthrough can answer something like this:

Has tongue
But cannot talk
Runs
But cannot walk

Be honest guys, without looking it up on Google, could you solve this on you first playthrough?

You shouldn't be
den runnin' from dem trolls anyway - gotta slaughter each and every one for dat sweet XP.

I'm not running now.

 

[madrigal]

Be honest guys, without looking it up on Google, could you solve this on you first playthrough?

There was no fucking Google when I did my first playthrough.

 

[RK47]

River?
How many letters?
Did you write down the possible letters? Of course you didn't.

 

[Tigranes]

I can imagine English as second language making that impossible, though.

 

[madrigal]

I can imagine English as second language making that impossible, though.

Which is hardly a fault of the game and what kind of person would complain that a story based game is too hard for non native speakers and even in saying that the chest is not compulsory, who says you have to open every chest? So you will miss out on a couple of shells. And even given that it would only take a couple of minutes to bruteforce.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Die. That's one that I could actually figure out myself. But to be honest, I have to look up walkthroughs for 80% of them. I don't know if that's because I'm not a native speaker, or the puzzles are too hard, but I can't solve most of them (please spare me the OH J_ C YOU ARE SO DUMB lines). I just can't believe that someone in his first playthrough can answer something like this:

Has tongue
But cannot talk
Runs
But cannot walk

Be honest guys, without looking it up on Google, could you solve this on you first playthrough?

What google?!? I didn't even have internet in that year
Solved most of them riddles with my father whose English was better than me back then.

Edit: LOL this brings back some memories. I literally kidnapped neighbours kid to so solve piano puzzle in Myst

 

[J_C]

Be honest guys, without looking it up on Google, could you solve this on you first playthrough?

There was no fucking Google when I did my first playthrough.

Die. That's one that I could actually figure out myself. But to be honest, I have to look up walkthroughs for 80% of them. I don't know if that's because I'm not a native speaker, or the puzzles are too hard, but I can't solve most of them (please spare me the OH J_ C YOU ARE SO DUMB lines). I just can't believe that someone in his first playthrough can answer something like this:

Has tongue
But cannot talk
Runs
But cannot walk

Be honest guys, without looking it up on Google, could you solve this on you first playthrough?

What google?!? I didn't even have internet in that year
Solved most of them riddles with my father whose English was better than me back then.

Edit: LOL this brings back some memories. I literally kidnapped neighbours kid to so solve piano puzzle in Myst

Jesus, I meant that solving the puzzle NOW, TODAY, without looking it up in Google. Obviously there was not Google in 1993 duuh.

River?
How many letters?
Did you write down the possible letters? Of course you didn't.

RARPE
WHGMD
EITEB
SLCON

 

[J_C]

I can imagine English as second language making that impossible, though.

Which is hardly a fault of the game and what kind of person would complain that a story based game is too hard for non native speakers and even in saying that the chest is not compulsory, who says you have to open every chest? So you will miss out on a couple of shells. And even given that it would only take a couple of minutes to bruteforce.

Nobody said that it is the fault of the game. Jesus, stop being fucking fanboys of this game (yeah, I'm saying that) and jumping into defensive mode everytime somebody is saying something in a negative tone.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Behead those who say anything negative about Betrayal at Krondor.

 

[Baron Dupek]

I have some feeling some people just switch letter randomly and look for correct word, then play hard guy with no googles. /jk

 

[Xorazm]

Has tongue
But cannot talk
Runs
But cannot walk

Be honest guys, without looking it up on Google, could you solve this on you first playthrough?

I would have never guessed that in a million years. My first guess was "shoe" but it turns out that there's nuances to the English language I just didn't know.

There are some stinkers in there but a lot of those riddles are goddamn fantastic. I had a walkthrough with all of them written out and people used to ask me for them in school so they'd have something to think about while we were all bored in class.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Be honest guys, without looking it up on Google, could you solve this on you first playthrough?

"Brute force" those that you can't figure out by trying on paper the different possible letter combinations until you find some that look like words.
Some have too many letters to brute force, though, but whatever... guess they'll forever stay locked then.

I found both figuring them out and "brute forcing" them almost equally satisfying.