Isometric/TPP is better for roleplaying?

[octavius]

I wish my dick was isometric instead of first person

Mine is third person.

 

[DraQ]

This whole "FPP is bad for muh RP!" angle is even more pathetic and feebleminded than the usual "isometric is bad for muh immershun!" one. At least the latter technically does have some grounding - assuming all the other, more important things being equal.
Meanwhile the former is just a case of bellyfeels - some will find RPing easier if they are watching their character from outside, others will prefer to be put in their shoes, both will argue it facilitates RPing better - if they argue this kind of shit, which automatically makes them insufferable twats .

How about sitting down and discussing the real, tangible benefits of different perspectives? Especially given that avoiding being confined to just one is trivial these days.

 

[Neanderthal]

How about sitting down and discussing the real, tangible benefits of different perspectives?

I'm already sat down so I can't.

 

[Mustawd]

How about sitting down and discussing the real, tangible benefits of different perspectives?

I'm already sat down so I can't.

 

[Agame]

ok

but first person is superior and more fun

And this is why we cant have intelligent games anymore...

 

[Glop_dweller]

First person inherently encourages the mindset of player substitution of the PC(s); more so when aspect of the PC [arms, weapons... etc] are depicted... IE like Witchhaven 1 & 2 [FPP stabbers]

It becomes, 'What do I do', instead of 'what would they do'. I have seen first person RPGs done very well, but IMO that is in spite the FPP presentation. Even great crawlers like the RoA & EoB series, and Throne of Chaos instill a sense of first person presence on the map, when it is the party that is exploring the depths.

 

[adrix89]

First person works if you are Skyrim, in other words action cutty cutty combat.

First person blobbers can work if they have separate battle screens but then you get something like from RPG Maker, first person grid lock combat is just shallow.

If you want proper tactical combat with multiple party members then isometrics are the only way to go. And if you don't have proper tactical combat you characters are shit anyway.

 

[Jacob]

It becomes, 'What do I do', instead of 'what would they do'.

First person is the answer then, because in role-playing you'd have to think 'What do I do if I were this character'

Spoiler

though i prefer isometric view game because those could provide an interesting tactical combat, whereas first person combat is okay at best

 

[Damned Registrations]

I know the hivemind likes to pretend otherwise, but just because you can move your characters around on a battlefield doesn't make the combat tactical. In something like the infinity engine games that pretty much just boils down to a melee mosh pit after firing from range. Woo. Bloodbowl has tactical combat, because the flanking bonuses, focus on the ball and the endzones, and the drastically different capabilities of an ogre vs an elf, make for a lot of important decisions instead of just having everyone run in and swing at the weakest target till dead repeat. Likewise there are games with blobber combat that provide a lot of tactical options in the form of viable buffs, debuffs, abstracted formations or combination attacks. Not all blobber combat is like Might and Magic where you just spam attack and heal until one side wins.

 

[octavius]

There are different kinds of tactics, just like there are different kinds of Might and Magic.

 

[toro]

I wanted to post something like this :

top-down perspective -> real time with pause

isometric -> turn-based combat

first person/over the shoulder -> real-time combat

... but then I realized that the point of views is irrelevant for a good rpg experience.

 

[anvi]

Much prefer first person. But isometric is better for tactical party stuff. Third person is dumb.

 

[Glop_dweller]

It becomes, 'What do I do', instead of 'what would they do'.

First person is the answer then, because in role-playing you'd have to think 'What do I do if I were this character'

Spoiler

though i prefer isometric view game because those could provide an interesting tactical combat, whereas first person combat is okay at best

That's a deeper answer than most players probably contemplate. Generally I think the reaction is "What would I do if I were in this situation", and along with ignoring skills & stats, first person is the problem in RPGs; becuse it constantly encourages the "What would I do if I were here?" mentality.

Now the character might run, but in FO3 [for instance], the player will run backwards dropping mines or firing an assault rifle, or they might use the VATS exploit to gain multiple attacks on a helpless foe [who never gets their own turn at doing that, as a counter]. FPP does the cardinal RPG sin... it erodes the sense of player detachment from the character being their own entity, with their own life/history, emotions/ agenda/ strengths/ and [most importantly] weaknesses.

FPP designs also suffer under vestigial RPG baggage, originally intended to fill in probability, and parts of the behavioral abstraction. We see this with percentile based combat [intended to reflect the PC's ability], and barrel wobble for firearms and projectile weapons. In FPP This fails miserably when the camera shows the attack hit the target ~and fail for the numbers. This is true for damage rolls as well. These depict severity of attack [distinguishing a knick, from a shot to the heart]... but the FPP games rarely if ever vary their animations to reflect the outcome in that kind of detail; and so you can see centered headshots that were statistically chipping off bits of ear cartilage.

The alternative is player controlled combat; pixel perfect aiming for a character that may have never held a gun, and/or may be morally uncomfortable using them. Any kind of mental or emotional issues like these play out terribly in first person, because they are depicting a personal loss of control ~and as such, they impose a loss of control for the player. When you cannot control your actions or view in FPP, what is there to do in an FPP game? (Not to mention that the majority will likely freak out at the nerve & gall of a game to dare disobey them. ). Even simple paralysis (from fear or being stunned) is hard to pull off in FPP.

'Realms of Arkania' is the only FPP RPG* that I know of to pull this off, but it did so with rough edges. The phobia/panicked character would unceremoniously drop out of the party, and the player would have to go back and find them. They can't really do that in a single PC ~FPP experience; and this leads to the player diverging from character simply because they want to explore where the character doesn't [or can't]. Think: Indiana Jones and the Temple of Snakes.

*Redneck Rampage did pull off being Drunk, and very nicely so. When drunk the game rotated the camera 90° and downward, and remapped the movement keys... but... It was done in a way that the player could learn to compensate for, and with experience, could learn to shoot while drunk.

The last damning thing about FPP, is that it personalizes violence. Fallout lost the GURPS license for being too violent (among other things), and yet in Fallout, it was always the PC aiming the gun, and doing the damage. With FO3, it became the player themselves aiming the gun, and/or setting enemies on fire. Ever watch a movie about charismatic ~but viscous criminals? One can get a vicarious thrill at seeing their freedom, and anticipating their wrath... but it's very different if they suddenly turned to the viewer and said, "You do it!"; but that's what you get in a first person game.

When FO3 was first announced, I wondered how they would get away with depicting the critical flamer death with Oblivion's graphical detail. It's only funny BECAUSE of the distance, and level of abstraction in the original... It becomes disgusting when seen at 4' away... and their implementation was unintentionally comical; enemies would continue to fight as normal ~while on fire, until death, and a sudden texture swap for an unrecognizable image of mystery meat.