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Is Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance the best game ever made?

Lyric Suite

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For the record, i didn't say i was looking for something similar to Dark Souls, just something that that is comparable to it in terms of quality.
 

baturinsky

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What about something like blue Demon Knight, these which can be damaged only by angelic weapons (in theory made for attacking multiply enemies and crowd control). One strong enemy with such requirement sounds like definition of sponge.
Scythe has good enough damage. Alternatively, you can break his shield and shoot Aquila, so he is eating damage while you deal with others.
 

Martius

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Scythe has good enough damage. Alternatively, you can break his shield and shoot Aquila, so he is eating damage while you deal with others.
I still dont like it since it restrict use of specific weapons. Minor damage buff and debuff like in DMC3 would probably be enough.
 

Cowboy Moment

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For the record, i didn't say i was looking for something similar to Dark Souls, just something that that is comparable to it in terms of quality.

Depends on what you mean by "quality". Generally speaking, the highly regarded action games, such as Ninja Gaiden, God Hand, DMC3-4, Bayonetta, are easily up there with Souls in terms of moment-to-moment gameplay, they tend to have much deeper combat systems, better enemy/encounter design, and share a similar "git gud or get out" philosophy when it comes to difficulty.

When it comes to aesthetics, though, they're basically corny, over-the-top action movies in game form, with a good dose of self-awareness. Not exactly Planescape Torment, but definitely less cringeworthy than Bioware's offerings, for example.
 

Lyric Suite

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I don't know man, this shit is up there:

hesstaringatyou.jpg


But whatever, i'm bored enough to give it a try. I'm downloading the iso of Armored Core 2 for PCSX2 and removing the others from some inventory for the time being. If i like them i'll get them on Steam when they go on sale. Let's see how this experiment goes.
 

Martius

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I dont think Nero is good example. He mainly made as introduction few new players so he is much toned down in comparison to Dante. Lets see how goofy can uncle Dante be sometimes.

 

Hobo Elf

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On a slightly unrelated note, Platinum Games' newest game, The Legend of Korra, was just released on Steam. It costs 15€ so my guess is that it'll be 15 USD.
 

kingcomrade

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Confirmed: Revengeance best game on fourth playthrough Spoilers: don't play with mouse and keyboard, it's serviceable but just don't
My list of games that have mattered to me is pretty short. Papers Please, PST, Fallout 1, Revengeance, Doom 2, Chrono Trigger, FFT....there's probably more but those are the 6 off the top of my head (edit- Portal). There are many great games, but the ones that I gave a shit about?

Also I heard Platinum's new game sucks, which is sad.
I'm probably going to buy a Wii U for Bayonetta 2+Bayonetta. It also will have mario kart 8 and there must be a new metroid coming out in the next year or two, I'll get that too. I have zero interest in Xbone or PS4. Wii U just seems like it's got what I want. Mario games, too, and Zelda, if I get drunk enough to just spend the money.
 

Lyric Suite

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I'm not really sure i'm looking for a "genre" either. To me console gaming is completely uncharted territory. I was impressed with the gameplay in Dark Souls so i thought that was a thing with Japanese devs, or something. The art style of a lot of those games is just very hard to digest for me but i figured if the game is good i can close an eye to it (maybe).
You could check out the armored core series, made by the same company that does the Dark Souls/Kingsfield line of games. Though you'd need an emulator or console for that. Very different genre obviously, but widely regarded as having excellent gameplay, and shares some similarities with Dark Souls, like weapon/combat variety, branching/open paths (both within missions and in terms of selecting them) and a significant amount of 'character' customization in the form of equipment.




It's a long running series, the major changes during it being 4 (things went into anime super robot territory with energy fields and insane mobility) and 5 (where they went in the opposite direction and made things much more awkward and clunky.) I linked #2 because it's my favourite, partly due to the massive dueling arenas that disappeared in later titles, but also just due to the overall atmosphere and a lot of the little details like overheating mechanisms, as well as the general pace and variety of missions.


PCSX2 works very well for this game, but the controls are shit fuck man. I can't even kill the boss in the tutorial level since he keeps getting out of lock and i can't dodge and move the camera at the same time. So i just set up muh mouse and keyboard. Everything works, except i can't disable the left double click thing that switches the game from full screen to window. How do i do that?
 

Damned Registrations

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I dunno, I'd forgotten that the controls for Armored Core games are... detailed, lets say. Generally speaking to adjust the camera while dodging one would strafe with a shoulder button, control the camera to aim with the left stick, and fire/jump with the face buttons. I've never used mouse controls for PCSX2, maybe spekkio can help you out.
 

Lyric Suite

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Nevemind, figured it out. Just had to set to DirectInput instead of Windows messaging. Keyboard and mouse made it easier, but not by a whole lot. Just checked on youtube to see how people play this game, and their style is slow and methodical, where as i went total shooter style. It is probably gonna take a while before i can get used to the way this game works. Love that i can bump the resolution, this emulator is pretty good.
 

Damned Registrations

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Yeah, if you are a veteran of the series, it's possible to pilot like a nutjob, more like this:



and I've had far more intense fights than that involving missile swarms or missions against multiple opponents. Also, the finesse required to use the laser blades in the earlier games is fairly high, the auto tracking isn't really suitable for anything besides immobile targets.

But it's certainly not the only style, and heavier, less mobile mechs are viable too. Early on you don't have the parts required for that sort of mobility anyways.

I do like the controls in Armored Core though, you have options for things like jettisoning weapons, overloading your generator or booster, and access to multiple weapons and subsystems all at once.
 

kingcomrade

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Are there modern Armored Core games? Are they good or bad? I had Armored Core 2 for the PS2 like a decade or longer ago and loved the game. I vaguely remember thinking tank chasses were overpowered, but I have no idea if that was actually true or not
 

Damned Registrations

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Well, there was an expansion/spinoff of AC2, Another Age, then AC3 came out, then that had a shitton of spinoffs. Nexus, Last Raven, Silent Line, maybe another, I forget. Then the series lied dead for quite a while until AC4 came out for PS3. AC4 and it's spinoff are the ridiculous super fast energy shielded mechs. The most recent entries are AC5 and it's spinoff, which are the other way around, big clunky things that can barely get airborne and require drones to assist their fire control systems and shit. I actually enjoyed AC4 and it's spinoff for the sheer spectacle of the giant boss fights and insane mobility and weapons, but it's definitely a different animal, and the series has suffered a pretty serious decline in number and variety of parts ever since it moved past the PS2.
 

Mangoose

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Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity
On a slightly unrelated note, Platinum Games' newest game, The Legend of Korra, was just released on Steam. It costs 15€ so my guess is that it'll be 15 USD.
YESSSSSSSSS

Well, there was an expansion/spinoff of AC2, Another Age, then AC3 came out, then that had a shitton of spinoffs. Nexus, Last Raven, Silent Line, maybe another, I forget. Then the series lied dead for quite a while until AC4 came out for PS3. AC4 and it's spinoff are the ridiculous super fast energy shielded mechs. The most recent entries are AC5 and it's spinoff, which are the other way around, big clunky things that can barely get airborne and require drones to assist their fire control systems and shit. I actually enjoyed AC4 and it's spinoff for the sheer spectacle of the giant boss fights and insane mobility and weapons, but it's definitely a different animal, and the series has suffered a pretty serious decline in number and variety of parts ever since it moved past the PS2.
And ridiculous is not even an exaggeration, FFS I have no idea what's going on ever.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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AC4 and ACV are the ones with noticiably less parts than previously on the PS2. For Answer and Verdict Day are back to PS2 ballpark in terms of parts. But in terms of gameplay, the two/four new iterations of the series are anything but decline. For Answer is pretty much the greatest mech game ever made, and Verdict Day is a close second.

It also bears mention that ACV is NOT slow either. It's only slow if you like getting your ass kicked or lack skill. The V games focus on the same principle as AC4 games, where speed is armour (big difference in terms of how speed is armour is that in ACV the Cores don't have Primal Armor shields so you don't want to get hit at all if possible). The main mobility difference is that ACV imposes vertical mobility limitations and you are generally supposed to take advantage of any and all terrain you come across in order to gain mobility advantage. I'd also mention that ACV is a lot more viable to play with slow-big-armoured-fatass builds, since high levels of armor present an alternative to speed is armour approach. However, the inevitable weak spots in having one or two impervious categories of armor may fuck you up big time, and you still get hit a lot when someone's packing bigger punch weapons, and you have a tough time keeping up with a human opponent. Having a Tank AC AI goon designed around "move forward and shoot" with big fucking guns is a good way to deal with the one/two-on-two/three/more fights in single player tho since the AI is a crack shot when set up for tank mode.


The part category where there's actual noticiable decline across the series after PS2 is Weapon Arms. They axed them completely in V, and brought them back revamped in Verdict Day as kind of Arm units with integral weaponry. Then again, I only use those for making "full tank" Cores, so it makes me sad if no "main gun" arms are available :(.

Well, there was an expansion/spinoff of AC2, Another Age, then AC3 came out, then that had a shitton of spinoffs. Nexus, Last Raven, Silent Line, maybe another, I forget. Then the series lied dead for quite a while until AC4 came out for PS3. AC4 and it's spinoff are the ridiculous super fast energy shielded mechs. The most recent entries are AC5 and it's spinoff, which are the other way around, big clunky things that can barely get airborne and require drones to assist their fire control systems and shit. I actually enjoyed AC4 and it's spinoff for the sheer spectacle of the giant boss fights and insane mobility and weapons, but it's definitely a different animal, and the series has suffered a pretty serious decline in number and variety of parts ever since it moved past the PS2.
And ridiculous is not even an exaggeration, FFS I have no idea what's going on ever.
It's all a matter of zen.


EDIT: Also, on the subject of similarities to Souls games, probably the most significant one is that Armored Core games are also very eager to kick the player in the balls.

Another interesting factoid is that the main guy (Hidetaka Miyazaki) behind Dark Souls started his career as part of the team behind the last PS2 Armored Core game, Last Raven, and his first own games were Armored Core 4 and Armored Core For Answer.
 
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Damned Registrations

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I tend to favour light close range mechs (I cleared all of AC4 using only laser blades) and I don't even look at the terrain for the most part (makes all those pretty graphics a big waste), it's far more effective to glue your eyes to the radar to have a better awareness of everything around you in your blind spots. But it's much different at longer ranges or with slower mechs.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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I was referring to ACV, since the main method of gaining mobility in it is to Ninja Gaiden-jump off surfaces, assuming you referred to that. After all, since ACV's "radar" is the Scan mode that lets you see through visual obstacles if you have deployed sensor probes to do so you have to rely more on sight and prediction to keep track of your targets.


In a lot of ways, AC4 and 4A are also probably the ones that require the least amount of conformity to current most effective method of Core building. While some builds are indeed superior (read: Machine guns and Gatlings) to others, most of the game can be cleared with just about any method one fancies (sans the last Old King mission and its Hard counterpart).

I have this one laser blade AC I made in 4A that I use as a kind of demonstration for people new to the series about the kind of zany shit you can do. The whole purpose of the machine is that it positions itself on the edge of one map, looks roughly in the distant opponents general direction, and then zooms across the entire map at 5000+ kmph in an attempt to blender-collide. When dueling I tend to die more of that thing accidentally going over the map edge to out of bounds in the fraction of a second because I didn't stop the blade charge soon enough. Fun times.
 

Damned Registrations

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Was mostly referring to what Mangoose quoted me on.

To be fair to AC5, I never got to play it much, just tried out a friend's copy. It does seem to speed up a lot later on, like any other AC game, but the whole sensor probes and wall jumping thing still seems far more awkward than previous games, which tended to feel more like a dance, moving rythmically to lead shots in a particular direction just before boosting up or in the opposite direction or whatever, or convoluted missile evasions in the sky while trying to close to point blank range with the mecha equivalent of a bat on meth.

It's a shame the arenas after AC2 got so small, I really missed the whole stealth/evasion aspect of places like Etal Base, sniping some poor tank fucker from beyond radar range or popping up behind him with the stealth parts in Another Age. Or having ridiculous chases across the desert where you're both overboosting until someone turns around and starts unloading, or someone runs out of energy and becomes a sitting duck.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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It's a shame the arenas after AC2 got so small, I really missed the whole stealth/evasion aspect of places like Etal Base, sniping some poor tank fucker from beyond radar range or popping up behind him with the stealth parts in Another Age. Or having ridiculous chases across the desert where you're both overboosting until someone turns around and starts unloading, or someone runs out of energy and becomes a sitting duck.
ACV and especially Verdict Day go back to this level design method, with stealth also being back due to the limits of sensor probes and Scan Mode. Of course, stealth was all about outwitting and predicting the opponent more so than actively using any particular equipment (after all, deploying something like ECM units would just tip anyone off that some motherfucker is right near them). The stages are also very huge in vertical sense, something that any tank will notice because they can't gain altitude worth shit since they can't Ninja Gaiden jump off the walls (and thus face vastly reduce mobility).

My personal biggest disappointment in V and Verdict Day is that they lack split-screen versus, since that was always a nice addition.

For Answer actually had fairly huge stages too (especially compared to some PS2 titles like Nexus and Nine Breaker)... It was mostly just that the NEXTs were not merely fast and mobile: They were really fucking fast and mobile.
 

Damned Registrations

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It wasn't just the NEXTs that were fast though, it was the weapons too, and size of radar, etc. The stages were bigger, but they didn't feel any bigger because you could overboost from one end to the other without running out of energy, or be followed by missiles over that distance, etc. It was completely impossible to just outrange an opponent and get a breather. Which I think was a very conscious effort because people playing in tournaments for AC2/AA were being gigantic faggots that would ping someone with a rifle and then run away till the timer ran out. Me and my friends never did that shit, the only time you ran like a bitch was if you literally had no weapons left at all. Which isn't terribly likely unless you had some really weird lightweight build without a blade, or a missile boat that ran dry.
 

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