Is it time for a new Dark Sun game?

[Dorateen]

War of the Lance was fine, for what it was: a self-contained story about Good vanquishing Evil

The War of the Lance was not about Good vanquishing Evil, it was about Balance being restored. This is a major theme, with references to the fall of Istar and the Cataclysm when "Good" waxed too powerful, and in the War of the Lance, the pendulum had swung too far in the opposite direction toward Evil.

 

[J1M]

I only know that in TSR's times the imagination for new settings seemed boundless. Do capable writers care about D&D today?

I think it has a lot more to do with financial concerns than a lack of imagination. By the mid-90s TSR was publishing full-fledged product lines for ten different campaign settings (Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Mystara, Planescape, Spelljammer, Birthright, Dark Sun, Ravenloft, Al-Qadim). This isn't even counting the small sub-lines within the Forgotten Realms brand (Mazitca, Kara-Tur, The Horde) and the D&D Gazetteers/Mystara (Hollow World, Savage Coast). Then there were a few one-off settings as well (each of the Historical Reference books would count, plus Council of Wyrms, etc).

The way I understand it, TSR was losing money on most of these. They were fragmenting their customer base with so many different product lines that were in competition with one another (to some degree; it's not like I didn't own stuff from most/all of them at the time). It was one poor financial decision among many made by TSR that sunk the company. Hence, after WotC bought out TSR, they axed most of the campaign settings and focused on books that were more generic in nature. Forgotten Realms was obviously the most popular and the most profitable, so they kept it and brought out the new book early in 3e's lifespan. I suspect that they kept Greyhawk more because people on the team wanted it than because it was especially popular or profitable at that point in time.

I agree that the settings of the early-mid 90s were fantastic (Dark Sun, Planescape, Birthright in particular), but they never seemed to get the traction as Forgotten Realms. And while I greatly dislike the FR, I do have a fondness for the original "grey box" campaign setting. Before the massive supplement bloat and reams of shitty novels.

Anyway, Dark Sun. Of all of TSR's settings, I would say that Dark Sun has the best chance of being brought back as a tabletop setting (which would make a CRPG based on it more likely). It's the only one from the list above that got an official 4e version. It's different enough from Forgotten Realms (and Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Mystara, Birthright) without being as weird as Planescape or Spelljammer. It would be a great candidate for a one-year focus from WotC: release a campaign setting book, an adventure path set in it, and then leave it alone.

From what I understand, the history you've described is accurate.

I think it was a mistake to kill all of the settings though. There should be room in the D&D market for both splat books with additional rules and settings books to fuel adventures/imagination. Not every setting needs to be supported with a related splat book, several adventures, tie-in novels, etc.

I'd even argue that encounter-building tools and sample encounters should be distinct products from splat/settings.

 

[mondblut]

Let the dead rot with dignity, you filthy corpse-rapists. Go molest some children instead, leave Dark Sun alone in the better times where it belongs.

 

[Morality Games]

Beamdog are working in a D&D game

If Beamdog/Wizards were smart it would definitely be a Dark Sun/Ravenloft/Planescape game.

It's going to be Realms though -- maybe with a planar component, but core Realms.

 

[Hobo Elf]

If numenera is the I-can't-believe-it's-not-planescape, why can't there be an equivalent for dark sun? Isn't it just high fantasy in a post-apoc wasteland setting, with insects?

Read the thread my man. Dragon Kings exist, made by the original author of Dark Sun. Along with a prog rock album to supplement the setting.

 

[Baron Dupek]

The answer is no
https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/dungeons-dragons-hasnt-returned-to-dark-sun/

"I'll be frank here, the Dark Sun setting is problematic in a lot of ways," Brink said. "And that's the main reason we haven't come back to it. We know it's got a huge fan following and we have standards today that make it extraordinarily hard to be true to the source material and also meet our ethical and inclusion standards... We know there's love out there for it and god we would love to make those people happy, and also we gotta be responsible."

"... and its heavy use of slavery as a symbol of oppression would likely need to be updated due to evolving views on how oppressive systems are depicted in games."

 

[Ladonna]

The answer is no
https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/dungeons-dragons-hasnt-returned-to-dark-sun/

"I'll be frank here, the Dark Sun setting is problematic in a lot of ways," Brink said. "And that's the main reason we haven't come back to it. We know it's got a huge fan following and we have standards today that make it extraordinarily hard to be true to the source material and also meet our ethical and inclusion standards... We know there's love out there for it and god we would love to make those people happy, and also we gotta be responsible."

"... and its heavy use of slavery as a symbol of oppression would likely need to be updated due to evolving views on how oppressive systems are depicted in games."

Crisis averted.

 

[BruceVC]

What about another Ravenloft, a modern update would be great but it must have complexity around rules and combat mechanics and it would only be for PC and not consoles....sorry console guys

 

[luj1]

"... and its heavy use of slavery as a symbol of oppression would likely need to be updated due to evolving views on how oppressive systems are depicted in games."

literally came to say this

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Heavy use of slavery? Good grief. Its a fucking game. These people need to get over it. Sanitize everything... that is just dumb.

 

[Baron Dupek]

HOT OFF THE PRESSES! WOTC BUYS LICENSE TO JOHN NORMAN'S GOR NOVELS. CHRIS PERKINS SAYS "WE ARE GONNA BE 100% FAITHFUL TO THE SOURCE MATERIAL"!!!

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Right........

 

[Dorateen]

The only developer capable of creating a new Dark Sun cRPG today is Heroic Fantasy Games.

 

[Desiderius]

The answer is no
https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/dungeons-dragons-hasnt-returned-to-dark-sun/

"I'll be frank here, the Dark Sun setting is problematic in a lot of ways," Brink said. "And that's the main reason we haven't come back to it. We know it's got a huge fan following and we have standards today that make it extraordinarily hard to be true to the source material and also meet our ethical and inclusion standards... We know there's love out there for it and god we would love to make those people happy, and also we gotta be responsible."

"... and its heavy use of slavery as a symbol of oppression would likely need to be updated due to evolving views on how oppressive systems are depicted in games."

ProBLeMaTIc

a-pathos -> bathos (clownworld)

People literally buy these games to get interesting problems to solve. Or in the case of these phaggots don't.

 

[PapaPetro]

How they gonna deal with Muls (Mulattos)?

 

[unseeingeye]

How they gonna deal with Muls (Mulattos)?

Haha good point, yea this just could never happen in a way that would be pleasant. I agree with what mondblut said almost 7 years ago, it is better off being left as it is rather than being turned into some neutered piece of shit like everything else they've done or demanded others do for the past 20+ years.

 

[PapaPetro]

How they gonna deal with Muls (Mulattos)?

Haha good point, yea this just could never happen in a way that would be pleasant. I agree with what mondblut said almost 7 years ago, it is better off being left as it is rather than being turned into some neutered piece of shit like everything else they've done or demanded others do for the past 20+ years.

It'll just get the Nu crown, like with Nu D&D, Nu Trek and Nu Star Wars.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Ugh!

 

[Serus]

HOT OFF THE PRESSES! WOTC BUYS LICENSE TO JOHN NORMAN'S GOR NOVELS. CHRIS PERKINS SAYS "WE ARE GONNA BE 100% FAITHFUL TO THE SOURCE MATERIAL"!!!

Actually, those novels have very bad and undeserved rep. At least the first few books i'v read. Possibly in later books the author went stronger into what sells best - aka kinky sex. But this is not the case in the first 3 or 4. The first few novels are, believe it or not, good science fantasy. If you want an original world with culture and society depicted with astonishing detail, this is it. This world actually makes sense too and is a somewhat original one at that (it is based on archaic and classical Greece). I said science-fantasy - with the science part being really present. And if you hope for a lot of sex or kinkiness, you will be sorely disappointed. I'm pretty sure there are more of kink in later tomes - and there are many.
Of curse both slavery* and patriarchy are prevalent on Gor. As we know those are pro-ble-mat-ic, even in works of fiction, even in fantasy of SF. But in less crazy times then a mainstream game based on first few books could work.
*Interesting enough slavery is portrayed mostly in negative light and regaining freedom is a common theme in early books. Though admittedly regained more often by men. Again i suspect that the whole "woman as a slave at the feet of a man being sexy and romantic", present only in very limited form in early books becomes a common thing later.

TL;DR Don't be afraid, first few books are actually GOOD and NOT pornographic. However read past the first few at you own risk. I didn't, at least so far. The original covers are what they are - to sell as many books as possible and they aren't that different than some covers of R. E. Howard's works.

 

[Butter]

How they gonna deal with Muls (Mulattos)?

Funny enough, CRPGAutist also thought that's what Mul meant, and he had a soy fit about it when first covering Shattered Lands. Always seemed pretty obvious that it was based on "mule", a horse-donkey hybrid.

 

[PapaPetro]

How they gonna deal with Muls (Mulattos)?

Funny enough, CRPGAutist also thought that's what Mul meant, and he had a soy fit about it when first covering Shattered Lands. Always seemed pretty obvious that it was based on "mule", a horse-donkey hybrid.

I guess different minds fill in the same blanks.

 

[Camel]

The answer is no
https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/dungeons-dragons-hasnt-returned-to-dark-sun/

"I'll be frank here, the Dark Sun setting is problematic in a lot of ways," Brink said. "And that's the main reason we haven't come back to it. We know it's got a huge fan following and we have standards today that make it extraordinarily hard to be true to the source material and also meet our ethical and inclusion standards... We know there's love out there for it and god we would love to make those people happy, and also we gotta be responsible."

"... and its heavy use of slavery as a symbol of oppression would likely need to be updated due to evolving views on how oppressive systems are depicted in games."

A silver lining is WotC can't turn one of their better and edgier settings into another Trannyfinder.

Actually, those novels have very bad and undeserved rep. At least the first few books i'v read. Possibly in later books the author went stronger into what sells best - aka kinky sex. But this is not the case in the first 3 or 4.

The first book is a generic heroic fantasy. After the first one it became a degenerate and boring drivel.

 

[Herumor]

We know it's got a huge fan following and we have standards today that make it extraordinarily hard to be true to the source material and also meet our ethical and inclusion standards

I don't understand this. It's not like they're depicting slavery as a good thing, why would that sort of thing have to meet "ethical and inclusion standards"? It's a fucking fictional setting, just because you use it doesn't mean you endorse and support everything bad about it.

And this part:

"... and its heavy use of slavery as a symbol of oppression would likely need to be updated due to evolving views on how oppressive systems are depicted in games."

What does that mean as well? Updated how? Why? What the fuck does "evolving view" stand for? Did they once support slavery? I mean, what is the actual issue here? I really can't comprehend this type of thinking.

 

[lightbane]

At least it will be allowed to rest. Isn't escaping slavery and regaining your freedom a common theme in Dark Sun games, including the PC ones? It never was depicted in a positive light, and only one of the available character classes (Templar which replaced Paladin IIRC) had to be evil/pro-slavery if I'm not mistaken.

 

[unseeingeye]

We know it's got a huge fan following and we have standards today that make it extraordinarily hard to be true to the source material and also meet our ethical and inclusion standards

I don't understand this. It's not like they're depicting slavery as a good thing, why would that sort of thing have to meet "ethical and inclusion standards"? It's a fucking fictional setting, just because you use it doesn't mean you endorse and support everything bad about it.

And this part:

"... and its heavy use of slavery as a symbol of oppression would likely need to be updated due to evolving views on how oppressive systems are depicted in games."

What does that mean as well? Updated how? Why? What the fuck does "evolving view" stand for? Did they once support slavery? I mean, what is the actual issue here? I really can't comprehend this type of thinking.

Yea that response either wasn't well prepared or just shows how insincere and fragile the basis of this ideology actually is.