Esquilax
Arcane
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Yeah yeah, whatever, I don't give a fuck. Does Solaris have sex cards or not?
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Development Info InXile consults academics to create Wasteland authenticity
- Thread starter Zed
- Start date
Yeah yeah, whatever, I don't give a fuck. Does Solaris have sex cards or not?
Brother None
inXile Entertainment
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2004
- Messages
- 5,673
No 
Excidium
P. banal
I like to LARP it's a 40,000 prequel, makes it a thousand times better.
I was tempted to say "Russian and other Eastern European", but my point stands for all of them, that's why I didn't bother to double-check.
I...what. For someone who just lambasted someone for ignorance, you don't really seem to have done your homework here, including the fact that Stanislaw Lem is very much so not a Russian. He's Polish. And while state censorship was a huge problem for Soviet-era writing, it was less of a problem for science fiction than for other genres. While other genres of novels became staid and put out horrifyingly bad books like Cement and How the Steel was Tempered. Ptfuh.
I mean, it's fine if it's just not to your taste but to claim American science fiction writing is somehow superior is kind of ignorant, if just not hilariously chauvinistic. Zamyatin's We did the dystopian novel thing before 1984 and Brave New World were even dreamed up (and was a huge influence on both), Bulgakov's Heart of a Dog is as good a bit of sci-fi based social commentary as ever written, Lem's Solaris and Tarkovsky's film based on the book are the best science fiction novel and film I've ever seen. And if you're into more casual, less hard-science/social commentary stuff, go for the Strugatsky brothers with their Noon Universe or Roadside Picnic (STALKER!). There's also Efremov's (another scientist) awesome Andromeda Nebula.
So, well, yeah. I wouldn't be so dismissive. Your casual dismissal of all Eastern European science fiction indicates to me that although you may have read sci-fi, your heart wasn't really into it and you missed some things.
I just don't like them. It's what tuluse was saying: most of the Eastern European writers' work in the end comes down to being cold and dieing. I tried the Strugatsky brothers' work and it had the same problem as Lem's - too soft, borderline fantasy and degenerating fast into philosophical commentary. I prefer sci-fi of a harder nature. To put what I'm saying into context, I'll just say that the cutting edge of modern sci-fi is currently Greg Egan. Look up Diaspora... and I would put that only half-way on Greg Egan's sci-fi hardness scale. If you want to have a taste, check out his website, where he as many of his short stories for free: http://gregegan.customer.netspace.net.au/BIBLIOGRAPHY/Online.html .P.S. Greg Egan is Australian, so, yeah, there are some non-U.S. good sci-fi writers by my standards, but not that many.
Brother None
inXile Entertainment
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- 5,673
Well then, it's not just to your taste, that's fine. It does tend to be more exploration of human nature, yes.
Since this thread is about anything, this quote from Polygon's writeup on Homefront reminds me of Brian Fargo's remark on publishers wasting development time...
After THQ greenlit Homefront, recalled another writer , "it was blue-sky times." Kaos was trying out anything and everything: boats, aircraft, even aircraft carriers. They were working on new multiplayer modes and systems, and trying to decide what Homefront would ultimately be. The only trouble was that almost immediately after THQ executives fell in love with the pitch demo, the publisher told Kaos to start working on a bigger, better version for E3 2009.
"It was all throwaway assets, throwaway code, it was all hacked together," he said. "We spent about a total of eight months of our production time making a five minute demo that was … not an actual game. It was a very nice demo. But it was all smoke and mirrors."
The effort lavished on producing a demo and related assets that would ultimately be discarded galled some of the development team, and THQ’s requests for convention demos were a regular feature of Homefront’s development. Every time there was a convention coming up, "it was like: stop the presses! We need to polish up the demo," said one artist.
"There is an expectation," explained one producer, "that if you spend eight months developing a demo for E3 that does really well in the press, then that's eight months well spent. Because you just sold another 500,000 copies of the game. It comes down to this very, very bizarre math. … No other industry would actually let you work like this. ... So a lot of people are abused in the gaming world. Especially for marketing and things like E3. And I think that's a business problem."
Since this thread is about anything, this quote from Polygon's writeup on Homefront reminds me of Brian Fargo's remark on publishers wasting development time...
After THQ greenlit Homefront, recalled another writer , "it was blue-sky times." Kaos was trying out anything and everything: boats, aircraft, even aircraft carriers. They were working on new multiplayer modes and systems, and trying to decide what Homefront would ultimately be. The only trouble was that almost immediately after THQ executives fell in love with the pitch demo, the publisher told Kaos to start working on a bigger, better version for E3 2009.
"It was all throwaway assets, throwaway code, it was all hacked together," he said. "We spent about a total of eight months of our production time making a five minute demo that was … not an actual game. It was a very nice demo. But it was all smoke and mirrors."
The effort lavished on producing a demo and related assets that would ultimately be discarded galled some of the development team, and THQ’s requests for convention demos were a regular feature of Homefront’s development. Every time there was a convention coming up, "it was like: stop the presses! We need to polish up the demo," said one artist.
"There is an expectation," explained one producer, "that if you spend eight months developing a demo for E3 that does really well in the press, then that's eight months well spent. Because you just sold another 500,000 copies of the game. It comes down to this very, very bizarre math. … No other industry would actually let you work like this. ... So a lot of people are abused in the gaming world. Especially for marketing and things like E3. And I think that's a business problem."
Johannes
Arcane
That's ridiculous.
Serious_Business
Best Poster on the Codex
Really? Is that an appeal to authority?
I guess I would be enough of a sucker to try to take a debate about Star Wars into epistemology and my crusade agaisnt positivism, but yeah, I'm getting old
Fly with your own wings my man, the skies are awaiting your grace. This is what the ol' N-man would have said, and I always follow the N-man, which means that I never follow the N-man, it also means ignoring everything he said about women
Really? Is that an appeal to authority?
I guess I would be enough of a sucker to try to take a debate about Star Wars into epistemology and my crusade agaisnt positivism, but yeah, I'm getting old
Fly with your own wings my man, the skies are awaiting your grace. This is what the ol' N-man would have said, and I always follow the N-man, which means that I never follow the N-man, it also means ignoring everything he said about women
Yeah, fuck positivism. Study after study has proven it to be total shit.
almondblight
Arcane
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2004
- Messages
- 2,549
I don't think it's what one is what people think of a "research" and the other is real research. For example, if I need to know the capital of Denmark, or need to learn how to write a Word macro, I can "research" it on the web. And this "research" should be suffice. Likewise, if I wanted to know who converted the Franks to Roman Catholicism or the background of the Derg, it would probably be enough. Would the latter suffice if I wanted to teach a course dedicated to the subject? No, but for most people who want to just get a survey of the subject, it will probably provide the information they want. And the thing is, if you're hiring consultants, that's what they're going to give you - a summary of what's going on.
Now here's the other part - there are already summaries of a lot of scientific knowledge. Now, I'm not talking about Wikipedia here. There are plenty of good articles and books out there with the main goal of summarizing scientific knowledge for the layman. Go read that Wired article about Chernobyl, "Fukushima vs. Chernobyl: How Have Animals Fared?" at the New York Times or the article posted a couple of pages back about what effect the radiation in Fukushima has had on fish (and you can find similar articles on the internet). If that's not enough and you want to go deeper, you can read studies like "Differences in effects of radiation on abundance of animals in Fukushima and Chernobyl" or books like Wormwood Forest: A Natural History of Chernobyl. If you want to get even deeper, you can read "Concentrations and Dose Rate Estimates of 134, 137Cesium and 90 Strontium in Small Mammals at Chernobyl". Too complex? Go back to a step. Still too much? Go back to the articles.
Now where do the scientists come into this? The Wired and New York Times articles are simple enough that anyone can understand. If you need something deeper, go as deep as you can go. Hiring a PhD to do basic research seems like overkill, and it's also an odd message. "We care so much about the science! that we hired real PhD's! And they'll save us a lot of time on research, because we can't be bothered to take 20 minutes to read a Wired article."
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Excellent article.
Brother None
inXile Entertainment
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Yeah. Polygon (formerly the Verge) is built to be big powerhouse quick. Part of Vox Media, just like the NFL blog I write for.
But hiring Brian Crecente and Russ Pitts does not make that good an impression on me, haha.
What's wrong with overkill? Attention to detail, even obsessively so, can pay off in a big way.
I don't see what odd message it sends. Research simply is not always a good way for writers to spend their time, and 20 minutes research is hardly always enough, so the only odd message it sends is "we care too much about science!", which they've already refuted, several times.
ironyuri
Guest
Really? Is that an appeal to authority?
I guess I would be enough of a sucker to try to take a debate about Star Wars into epistemology and my crusade agaisnt positivism, but yeah, I'm getting old
Fly with your own wings my man, the skies are awaiting your grace. This is what the ol' N-man would have said, and I always follow the N-man, which means that I never follow the N-man, it also means ignoring everything he said about women
It was less an appeal to authority than the fact I want to know where you posted that shit so I can plagiarise the fuck out of it.
Le plagiat est nécessaire. Le progrès l'implique.
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- 5,480
That and STALKER are two of my all time favorite films. I'm quoting this now in hopes that I'll see it tomorrow when I'm sober and at the library and will remember to check out this book finally.
ironyuri
Guest
STALKER is based on the novel "Roadside Picnic" by the Strugatsky Brothers. You should check that out too. Faggot.
(The last bit is just because I felt like I should call you something so it doesn't look like we like each other.)
Seems like a good time to quote Lem's law: No one reads; if someone does read, he doesn't understand; if he understands, he immediately forgets.
almondblight
Arcane
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2004
- Messages
- 2,549
This:
You don't see something odd about "we want to do scientific overkill but don't think it's a good time for our writers to research science"? If that's the case then they're more likely to be handed a scientific "cheat sheet" to shoehorn into the game, which often comes off as fake. I'd rather the writers get a much shallower understanding themselves and let these things come naturally - especially since I don't see any reason for this game or any game that's not "radiobiologist simulator" to have scientific overkill.
Johannes
Arcane
Wouldn't some paramilitary and/or survivalist people be much more relevant consults than scientists, considering the focus of the game?
Vault Dweller
Commissar, Red Star Studio
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2003
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- 28,024
Good point. Seems a lot more relevant to the setting.
Brayko
Self-Ejected
Yes because "paramilitary and/or survivalists" have survived some mad post-apoc environments and are eager to share their experiences.
Vault Dweller
Commissar, Red Star Studio
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Well, you won't be dealing with the aftermath of a nuclear attack and battling radiation, so survival experience is more relevant. Like this guy, for example:
http://www.spiveysabertoothknife.com/History/History.htm
"When people see the knife I carry into the backwoods they immediately want one. Unfortunately, the more than fifteen hundred I built are gone. The knife is called Sabertooth. I invented it during a horseback journey from ocean to ocean in 1968. That ride took seven months and covered 4000 miles through all the seasons. Necessity made me realize the kind of knife I needed. The Sabertooth at an overall length of 12 ¾ inches, with a 7 ½ inch blade is perfectly suited for wilderness survival.
...
A rock chipped to a sharp edge is probably the oldest implement of human design. No society, ancient or modern, has existed without the tool we call a knife. It is as old as intellect and could very well be partly the cause of it. Humans may have continued walking with their knuckles on the ground had it not been for the discovery of this simple tool. A good edge is as relevant today as it was in prehistoric times. Unlike a gun, a knife is not always used as a weapon. A knife has far more uses than a gun.
I used my knife for just about everything. I ate with it, dug fire pits, built windbreaks, cut rope and leather straps, sliced bread, bacon, elk steaks and stirred the stew. I drilled holes in leather belts, scraped mud from my boots and many other small tasks. There are times when one has to do things with a knife that they would not ordinarily do. Once while crossing a fence, instead of cutting the wires, I pried staples from a corner post so that I could lower the fence and cross with my horse. That of course is not something most people would have to do, unless they are traveling on horseback. With that kind of treatment, the blade of any knife will be dull the next time it is needed. Without a sharpener, streambed stones are just about everywhere and finding the right one was easy. When the grit of the stone was not right, I kept trying. It was either a grit up or grit down. In rough country, I was always able to find the right whetstone.
During my ocean-to-ocean journey, I sometimes had to hack my way down to a river, cross and then hack my way out on the other side. The knife I started my journey with was a Marble sheath knife. The blade was made of fine steel and the handle was caribou horn that had been carved into a mythical dragonhead. When my knife and gun were stolen, all I had left was a limber blade pocketknife. Because of that, I was forced to make choices I would not have made otherwise. I realized how important a straight-blade was only when I no longer had it. I brought it along because I thought it would be handy. I wanted it back because by then, I realized it was a necessity. Life in the backwoods can be difficult without a good sheath knife."
http://www.spiveysabertoothknife.com/History/History.htm
"When people see the knife I carry into the backwoods they immediately want one. Unfortunately, the more than fifteen hundred I built are gone. The knife is called Sabertooth. I invented it during a horseback journey from ocean to ocean in 1968. That ride took seven months and covered 4000 miles through all the seasons. Necessity made me realize the kind of knife I needed. The Sabertooth at an overall length of 12 ¾ inches, with a 7 ½ inch blade is perfectly suited for wilderness survival.
...
A rock chipped to a sharp edge is probably the oldest implement of human design. No society, ancient or modern, has existed without the tool we call a knife. It is as old as intellect and could very well be partly the cause of it. Humans may have continued walking with their knuckles on the ground had it not been for the discovery of this simple tool. A good edge is as relevant today as it was in prehistoric times. Unlike a gun, a knife is not always used as a weapon. A knife has far more uses than a gun.
I used my knife for just about everything. I ate with it, dug fire pits, built windbreaks, cut rope and leather straps, sliced bread, bacon, elk steaks and stirred the stew. I drilled holes in leather belts, scraped mud from my boots and many other small tasks. There are times when one has to do things with a knife that they would not ordinarily do. Once while crossing a fence, instead of cutting the wires, I pried staples from a corner post so that I could lower the fence and cross with my horse. That of course is not something most people would have to do, unless they are traveling on horseback. With that kind of treatment, the blade of any knife will be dull the next time it is needed. Without a sharpener, streambed stones are just about everywhere and finding the right one was easy. When the grit of the stone was not right, I kept trying. It was either a grit up or grit down. In rough country, I was always able to find the right whetstone.
During my ocean-to-ocean journey, I sometimes had to hack my way down to a river, cross and then hack my way out on the other side. The knife I started my journey with was a Marble sheath knife. The blade was made of fine steel and the handle was caribou horn that had been carved into a mythical dragonhead. When my knife and gun were stolen, all I had left was a limber blade pocketknife. Because of that, I was forced to make choices I would not have made otherwise. I realized how important a straight-blade was only when I no longer had it. I brought it along because I thought it would be handy. I wanted it back because by then, I realized it was a necessity. Life in the backwoods can be difficult without a good sheath knife."
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I think that guy's gonna get an email from Brian today.
I don't see anything in that anecdote about attacking tank treads with his allegedly "handy" knife.
They should go with Bear Grylls instead. This is the face of a man stupid enough to go after a scorpion shaped tank with a knife:
They should go with Bear Grylls instead. This is the face of a man stupid enough to go after a scorpion shaped tank with a knife:
Vault Dweller
Commissar, Red Star Studio
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2003
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- 28,024
Johannes
Arcane
Oh you're right, to get that practical knowledge of realistic post-apoc scenarios, you need biologists and pharmacologists. Wait...
Excommunicator
Arcane
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2010
- Messages
- 3,524
Well that's it. Now I'm going to have to get myself one of these sabertooth knives
I wonder if they're balanced for throwing too
I wonder if they're balanced for throwing too
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