Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Squad Tactics Invisible Inc.

Discussion in 'Strategy Gaming' started by Ulminati, Jan 22, 2014.

  1. dukeofwhalesgender: ⚧ Savant

    dukeofwhales
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    It's designed to be played and beaten on easy mode, then normal, then hard, rather than jumping in at your normal difficulty.

    I'd probably recommend turning off the "extended campaign" part of the DLC for your first playthrough if you already have it, too. I don't really think it makes the game better, just longer.
     
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  2. I'm With Her Metrogender: ⚧ for prison Arcane Beg Auditor

    Metro
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    Klei seems to prefer tackling different genres.
     
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  3. Lord Azlangender: ⚧ Arcane Patron Shitposter

    Lord Azlan
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    24 hours in.

    I can't help comparing it to the Dungeon of the Endless. Which I became hopelessly addicted to. This one is not as fun.

    However, I am enjoying the fact that we finally come across a game that does not involve wanton mayhem killing from the very start. Love the art style - stupendous.

    Struggled a bit but finally completed the game on lowest difficulty. Mostly down to dumb luck. I am finding this game more at the mercy of RNG gods than Endless. Items and Programmes - wtf do they actually do - some seem bugged, useless or rely on other items.

    Really like the alarm escalation system - is that unique? The point where you need to judge between escaping a place and deciding whether to explore as to gain more loot is exquisite.

    So another thumbs up for Steam Moderator.
     
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  4. Make America Great Again Darth Roxorgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Wielder of the Huegpenis, Hater of Eternity

    Darth Roxor
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    :nocountryforshitposters:
     
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  5. spectregender: ⚧ Arcane

    spectre
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    Shush, let the guy git gud. It's all natural progression - first you see the game as RNG dependant and impossible to beat, then you beat it on easy and gradually lose all the training wheels.
    And it feels awesome.

    For the record, I agree that the programs are a bit of a mess. Takes some practice to know what's actually useful.
     
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  6. Jaedargender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

    Jaedar
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    You're not entirely wrong, but almost all the programs have a purpose and a some combinations of "bad" programs are quite potent when combined. The trick is to make sure you start with a decent pair, although I suppose first game you don't have much choice, but power drip and lockpick are not bad.

    Also, it's a roguelike-like. Trying to make do with suboptimal setup wrought from randomness is like half of the genre.
     
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  7. Leechmongergender: ⚧ Learned

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    Roguelite is easier to say.
     
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  8. spectregender: ⚧ Arcane

    spectre
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    It's not really about the starting programs, and it's not about function.
    What I am arguing is that software slots are very limited in the game and it's not really possible to fiddle around with them.
    That alone makes me forego many of the "utility" programs: Oracle, Daemon Sniffer, Abacus (especially on higher difficulties), Ping, Leash, Shade, Wings, Wisp, etc.
    I am a bit rusty on the programs after the DLC, but that's what I remember off the top of my head. Still, you will notice that it's quite a sizeable chunk the whole lot.

    I am not questioning their usefulness in general, but from the standpoint of being able to reliably tackle the endgame on Expert and above, I am finding that there is little reason not to go for the solid suite of: Seed, Lockpick, Parasite, Dagger/Hammer, Hunter.
    While I agree that the game is largely about making do with what the RNG throws at you, I am finding that there isn't a lot of leeway when it comes to programs.
    All in all, you need a power generator for backup, Lockpick (or equivalent) is also mandatory, Hunter or Taurus is also mandatory for the endgame.
    That takes up most of the program slots. Technically I can still sport two utility programs, but In practice I found that leaves my hacking ability stunted, even when I abuse Dr.Xu and Buster Chips.
    The weakness becomes especially evident when facing Sankaku.
    In the end, Parasite/Dagger give me far more efficiency when dealing with different scenarios then, say, Oracle or Leash.

    Yes, you can make some great combos, like manipulating firewalls with wildfire, parasite and a couple of wrenches, however, please notice that the combo sucks badly until you assemble the pieces,
    and you can't really guarantee that you ever get them all. Yep, you can plug some of the holes with equipment, but that still leaves you with a bunch of moving parts.
     
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  9. Jaedargender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

    Jaedar
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    I almost Always skip hunter or other daemon programs, too power costly.

    Ping otoh, is amazing. You're not wrong that utility programs lose their worth after many days, but that's imo only a concern in endless, hacking and power doesn't have time to get that constrained in standard campaign.

    And I still don't think it's wrong some programs are better than others, because you can always make do with what you have
     
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  10. spectregender: ⚧ Arcane

    spectre
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    While ping is indeed good enough to almost make the cut, it can be substituted by running, playing peek a boo or placing bodies.

    Hunter is about shutting down some of the ways in which RNG can fuck you over.
    A bad sequence of blowfish leading to guard spawn or firewall increase, or a labirynth at the wrong time can bury the whole mission, especially if you're struggling to make do with what you have.
    And there is, of course, the case of Fractal 2.0
     
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  11. BelisariuS.Fgender: ⚧ Savant

    BelisariuS.F
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    Well, it's hard not to complain about RNG when the game on the first two tries of a given level can place your starting location and your objective almost at the completely opposite sides of the level, and then on the third try it places them right next to each other.
     
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  12. Jaedargender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

    Jaedar
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    Sure they can, but Hunter has a huge power cost and a large cooldown, and at a certain point you just have to take some daemons to the face. And when you realize that you have to be able to play without hunter regardless of whether or not you have it, it becomes a lot less cool. I recommend playing a few games with Faust, it's good way to learn how to deal with daemons :)
     
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  13. spectregender: ⚧ Arcane

    spectre
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    You seem to be under the impression that I want to avoid popping any daemons whatsoever, which is hardly the case.
    To reiterate my actual point: the importance of Hunter (or Taurus as a poor man's substitute) is to avoid randomly screwing yourself over by triggering a string of SNAFU that causes you to lose the game.
    You may not care much for it playing on Easy, but good luck tackling Endless Plus without one.
    You will of course say that endless is a different ballgame, but I am of an opinion that principles that is valid for endless mode stay solid for a standard game.
    There is more than one way to play this game, that much is true.

    Done that already, but only just enough to get the steam achievement. In my opinion, It makes the game too random and isn't very feasible unless you can rely on a number of rewinds to get you through.

    I, on the other hand, recommend making friends with Seed. I am getting pretty good mileage out of it with Lockpick and Parasite. It also makes life under Modulate 1.0 and 2.0 much more bearable.
     
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  14. Jaedargender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

    Jaedar
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    This insults me. For the record, I learned to play the game before there were difficulties or rewinds (during early access). I don't particularly care for the + difficulties though, as I find they add more tedium than fun. Mainly the removal of guard enemy sight which makes opening doors quite the chore all the time.

    And most of the time, I'd rather have 5 power than a dead daemon.
    I seem to recall it being pretty easy, although I did combo it with Central for endless free power, and brimstone.

    Seed is fine, although I prefer fusion and even with seed your hunter will cost 3 or 4 power, since you could have used that seed proc on something that actually breaks firewalls.
     
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  15. Make America Great Again Darth Roxorgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Wielder of the Huegpenis, Hater of Eternity

    Darth Roxor
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    I got to day 28 on endless (and stopped because I got bored, I could probably go on indefinitely because my setup got completely unstoppable) using power drip/parasite/bless/blast/ping/brimstone. Honestly, when you get really far (when turbo daemons start appearing p. much), daemons become such a simple fact of life that trying to eliminate them directly with taurus/hunter is pointless, and it gets even more pointless once you trigger a daemon that infects every hackable thing on the map. My choice tactic of getting past really nasty daemons was just to load up every agent with EMP and buster chips. Break enough firewalls manually to take it down to 1, use EMP, rob safe, gg wp.

    Also, I remember ping saved my ass way more times than I could count. You will run into situations where you can't distract a guard safely with sprint/peekaboo, not to mention it's insanely useful once a fuck up happens and guards start going berserk.
     
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  16. spectregender: ⚧ Arcane

    spectre
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    Only serves to show how different it can play for two different people who are basically coming from the same spot.

    I do not follow. If hunter costs 5, seed knocks that down to a manageable 1, effectively savingyou 4 pwr for that turn.
    Personal preference, I guess. I like seed because it goes down well with parasites and Lockpick (preferably both at 2.0), effectively giving you around 3 pwr per turn.
    As a side effect, it can negate Modulate and an unlucky Siphon.

    And I don't like the fact that you need to babysit Fusion (which otoh explains why you'd rather sit on that 5 pwr)

    Daemons on safes were never a big concern for me because I like to play around with Dr.Xu, but yeah, EMP also solves that.
    TBH, I am more concerned about bad daemons on cameras, objectives and gates.

    In my experience, endless mode is usually "solved" around the 10 day mark. Once you stock up on Shock Traps, Cloaks, portable servers and KO there isn't a lot a game can do to hurt you and a lot of shit becomes indeed pointless,
    though pulse 2.0 can still ruin your day at times.

    The trick is actually getting your ass to that point. Also, notice how you still would use Bless for Daemon mitigation? Of course, that depends on which deamons hurt your setup the most. From my experience, Validate, Blowfish and Authority.
    are the most bothersome and are the primary targets for Hunter. Rubiks and Modulate can be problematic, but that depends on the state of my hacking rig.

    I tend to pick a Hand Cannon for such occassions. It's pretty economical and blowing away one or two guards per mission is no biggie.
     
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  17. Zetorgender: ⚧ Arcane

    Zetor
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    I actually prefer taurus for handling daemons on critical objects, esp since most of the new locations the demon can move at that point will either be devices I already hacked (reboot), devices I would never hack like sound sensors, or things I EMP with Xu anyway (drones, safes). It's also cheap and has no CD (iirc).

    But then I haven't played endless+ yet...
     
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  18. Make America Great Again Mozggender: ⚧ Arcane

    Mozg
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    Help me like this. I'm finding it mostly annoying. All the skills and programs seem really boringly quantitative and economic (e.g. you get +1 AP, you get +1 PWR, it costs 2 PWR to X rather than 3 PWR to do 2X, etc.) rather than qualitative. I feel like I'd just have to play a shitload of a game I don't find fun yet to grasp the economic context of all these +1s and +10%s
     
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  19. I'm With Her Metrogender: ⚧ for prison Arcane Beg Auditor

    Metro
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    It's a strategy game so why is that surprising? You manage your resources and cooldowns to get to an objective and beat the clock. What kind of skills/programs do you want to see?
     
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  20. Make America Great Again Mozggender: ⚧ Arcane

    Mozg
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    Stuff that makes the game play differently, I guess? Ideally I'd like for each new program or item to change the rest of the campaign and let me to adapt a different playstyle, rather than just incrementally making an action 10% more profitable or w/e. Instead of exploring new playstyles it's like a racing game or something. I'm playing to do the same thing over with slightly greater efficiency.
     
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  21. oasis789gender: ⚧ Arcane

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    It sounds like you either lack imagination or are playing on a difficulty setting that doesn't demand it.
     
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  22. Make America Great Again Mozggender: ⚧ Arcane

    Mozg
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    Both actually, does raising the difficulty make it less boring? I figured it would just be the same shit with a smaller margin for failure.
     
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  23. kyrubgender: ⚧ Savant

    kyrub
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    I understand some of your frustration. But the game offers a lot of variety, and you can do much better with the Contingency plan DLP (recommended!). Using extra difficulty settings help a lot. (My favourite is modified Expert: 14 rooms, 0,5 cash, more guards, more safes, more demons, 5 PWR start + optional 2minutes for adrenaline).

    Taking Parasite as a starting program makes you play the game in a really different way. You may think twice about your team here, however.
    Using Seed opens incredibly vast area for variety of gameplay. It's good to experiment so I don't want to spoil it all for you. Oracle is fun for instance, although sitautional. some combinations with personnel are great.

    If you lack variety, try solo run with Derek (the teleporting agent). Sacrifice the other agent on the first mission...
    Actually, any game with Derek offers fantastic new ways to play game - and that by itself is the selling point of Contingency plan.
     
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  24. Make America Great Again Mozggender: ⚧ Arcane

    Mozg
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    I finally settled into a game after giving it a bunch of tries and getting bored.

    Don't expect to love this instantly or deeply even if you're a big TBT fan, but if you find yourself with a hanker for a new TB game it's satiating.
     
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  25. Gordgender: ⚧ Arcane

    Gord
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    Got this game a while ago, played for some hours, beat it on lowest difficulty, started playing the higher difficulties, lost interest after a few hours more.
    Tried getting into it again today, but didn't even manage a single mission before losing interest again.
    Not sure why, but it seems just a bit boring after a few hours: no story to speak of (yes, I like some backstory from time to time, sue me) and increasing difficulty aside, the basic gameplay doesn't change all that much, even between different agents.
     
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