Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Squad Tactics Invisible Inc.

Discussion in 'Strategy Gaming' started by Ulminati, Jan 22, 2014.

  1. Jason Lianggender: ⚧ Liturgist

    Jason Liang
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    I'd rate the starting agents for E+ like:

    OP:
    Sharp
    Nika

    Great:
    Archive Banks
    Shalem 11

    Good:
    Archive Nika
    Xu
    Central

    Mediocre:
    Archive Xu
    Archive Shalem 11
    Monster
    Prism
    Banks
    Decker

    Poor:
    Internationale
    Archive Internationale
    Archive Decker

    Not sure about Archive Sharp and Archive Prism yet. I'd rate the power generating aug agents much higher if Portable Servers didn't exist. But they do.
     
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  2. spectregender: ⚧ Arcane

    spectre
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    Not so. Being able to detect the mission objective is potentially huge when you're on the clock to get out as soon as possible, which in my experience is what Plus difficulty is all about.
    I'd argue that it's a matter of preference. For Plus difficulty, I find early game to be crucial, because it actually gets easier once you're all built up. I am finding that Sharp does pretty much nothing early on, and requires lot of investment before he gets ahead of, say, Banks + Paralyzer.
    You are spot on about internationale not getting along well with Econ Chip (which is why I begrudgingly settle for Monster to up my evasion game).

    You are right here, but to be frank, two paralyzers on an agent will give you more or less the same results. The point of Sharp is achieving ridiculous KO times, but post a certain threshold it becomes largely superficial.

    I'd argue that once you get to that point the game is pretty much "solved". Biggest thing about the custom chip in my view is the reduced cooldown, making it very convenient to use with torque injectors.
    Second chip... I dunno. These things are pricy and given that it usually nets around 1000 creds per level, the second one doesn't pay for itself fast enough for my taste.
    But no argument here, Archive Banks is a game-changer.

    Since Shalem will most likely be the designated killer, I don't mind specializing him that way. I'm not too hot for the Desert Wind myself, as the guaranteed Hand Cannon is much more economical.

    I believe there is such a thing as too much AP. Predictive brawling on nika lets you do quite a lot of scouting, but I am finding that you will often be blocked by an obstacle that takes time to bypass, be it a guard facing an inconvenient direction, or something that needs to be hacked.
    Main reason for xu is bypassing daemons and saving a lot of PWR, which is all good for you when you're using console PWR for Economy Chip.
     
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  3. dukeofwhalesgender: ⚧ Savant

    dukeofwhales
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    I've been trying an maximum cash endless run with Archive Banks and Xu, starting with Parasite and Fusion with the aim of never having to use a console for power, only for cash. Not sure if it's feasible unless I can get the item which decreases cooldowns on the first couple of missions though because the combination of the 4 turn cooldown on the econ chip and the need to wait for parasite to knock off the cameras means it just takes too long and I end up fucking myself. Wondering whether to swap Xu out with Internationale as the detect ability gives you a head start on cameras quite often. You miss out on the free safe hacks though which can save quite a bit of power.

    Haven't managed to get very far yet. Of course if I were better at this game that would help too.
     
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  4. 34scellgender: ⚧ Learned

    34scell
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    Archive Internationale plus 5x alarm multiplier to break the game. With volt a disrupter you can use all your attacks for free every turn.
     
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  5. spectregender: ⚧ Arcane

    spectre
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    You're gimping yourself here. I realize the theme, but IMO parasite as a starting program is only useful with Internationale (cause it reveals lots of possible targets) and Archived Prism (because you have a buster chip and can disappear at will)
    - in the latter case, Dynamo may be a better choice.
    For Xu and Banks low PWR builds, I'd recommend starting with Seed an Lockpick 1.0, with view of upgrading to 2.0 asap. As a matter of fact, I've been using it with good success for all of my EconChip plays.

    Generally, I favor agents with improved hacking to go with Econ Chip. Sharp, Internationale, Monst3r. Xu works, of course (and it's nice that he has a shock trap and a neural disrupter - you don't gimp yourself too much by not having the disrupter on banks),
    the sweet spot for Economy Chip seems to be at Hacking 3, so you will have to invest some of that earned cash before you start making a profit.
    A bit advantage of that starting setup is that you only need to get a Paralyzer and you're prep'd for almost anything the game can throw at you at low levels (drones, daemons, armored guards).

    If you're still learning the ropes, perhaps standard Banks + Dr. Xu would work better for you? If you want the Econ Chip so badly, you can restart if you don't get one in the nanofabs during the first or second mission. It's not as convenient to use,
    because it needs speed 2 and has more cooldown, but std.Banks + Xu is a very balanced duet in my opinion.
     
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  6. Jason Lianggender: ⚧ Liturgist

    Jason Liang
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    Yeah, I'm not a fan of parasite either. You don't need to save power THAT badly, and it slows you down too much waiting for hacks. Lockpick 1.0 all the way.

    I don't think Xu is worth starting. You still need to carry an EMP or two whether you have him or not.

    Having a 2nd Econ Chip means you don't have to wait around to cash in during the cooldown.
     
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  7. spectregender: ⚧ Arcane

    spectre
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    Parasite was great for starters back in early access, when they let you pick any two programs, so Parasite + Lockpick worked quite all right.
    As it is now it's an excellent auxiliary breaker, and what you want is a main breaker for starters.
    You may be right for Endless, but when the schedule is tighter, I find him great as a full package that can take care of a number of things. A guaranteed shock trap loses its charm once you get mk.III
    but its one way you can guarantee being able to drop an armored guard.

    With regular chips, I could see myself doing that, especially if RNGesus won't bless you with torque injectors.
    Is it feasible though? You need to spend 800$ + 800$ for them in the first place, which is a-ok for one chip - as it should pay for itself after 1-2 missions, but the second chip will take a much longer time to do so,
    Depending on how sooner you get the duplicate +1 rank to hacking will give you more mileage.
     
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  8. Make America Great Again Eyestabbergender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

    Eyestabber
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    Just finished experienced for the first time. This game is fucking awesome!

    Don't know if this has been discussed before, but check this out:

    [​IMG]

    I made myself a nice little POW camp on the last mission. Drop all guard bodies on the little room you see + trap the door. Both Nika and Central had lvl 3 shock traps, so, apart from some small leaks here and there, I solved most of the opposition by locking them in a room and chain stunning them while Monst3r did his thing. Shock traps ignore armor, so arpen is a non-issue here. That and the fact that a well equiped Nika is pretty scary. :P
     
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  9. Stormcrowfleetgender: ⚧ Arbiter

    Stormcrowfleet
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    So what's the deal with this game ? Cons and pros ?
     
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  10. Jason Lianggender: ⚧ Liturgist

    Jason Liang
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    PROS:
    Concept++++ (cyberpunk+noir+raygun gothic, awesome)
    Design+++++ (procedure-generated rogue-lite, combat and weapon mechanics, stealth system mechanics, alarm system mechanics, hacking mechanics, all clever)
    Presentation+++++ (animations, character design, gui)
    Length +++ (6-8 hour story campaign, Goldilocks "just right")
    Initial Difficulty/ Learning Curve (each day gets appreciatively more difficult)
    Customizable Campaigns (if its too difficult you can design your own difficulty)
    World Building (one of the better balanced future dystopias, not completely grimdark)
    Campaign Plot (classic Neuromancer with a twist)
    Gameplay tension/ stress (perfect)
    Modability (easy to mod)

    CONS:
    Long term replayability (game doesn't have enough random variance or content, gameplay gets kind of repetitive after about a month or so)
    Long term challenge (even the toughest situations are no problem for a maxed out team of 4 agents)
    game balance (lots of agent loot/ augs are OP like Econ Chip, Portable Servers, Cloaks, etc... they break the game design and balance that make the game good)

    Overall:
    Invisible Inc is an instant classic, the content and design is top notch. But it has imperfections and just not enough content or challenge to last for more than 1-2 months of gaming. The first 10 hours are awesome, the next 10 hours are great, then the game is still enjoyable but it fails to get better after that. Once you've seen nearly everything, the game is done.
     
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  11. I'm With Her Metrogender: ⚧ for prison Arcane Beg Auditor

    Metro
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    Read the thread?
     
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  12. Cyberarmygender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

    Cyberarmy
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  13. spectregender: ⚧ Arcane

    spectre
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    You want a quest compass with that? It's a roguelike, turn based stealth game that pulls no punches.
    If I were to apply the term liberally, I'd call it a tactical turn based game with character development.
    If that's not enough for you, you are beyond help.

    Also, yes, it is very good and polished.
     
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  14. Stormcrowfleetgender: ⚧ Arbiter

    Stormcrowfleet
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    You people are so edgy tonight. I'm asking because people are starting to finish the game so they can actually give a complete review instead of tidbits. I already knew what the game was about since I checked the thread and the gameplay video.
     
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  15. dukeofwhalesgender: ⚧ Savant

    dukeofwhales
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    It's my favourite game of the year so far. Tense, compelling, and a lot of replayability if you're the type to challenge yourself with different party makeups, skills and items. Difficulty levels are spot on too. Have gotten 66 hours out of it so far and will most likely go back for more.
     
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  16. spectregender: ⚧ Arcane

    spectre
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    Perhaps that was a bit too edgy, but come on man, tactical turn based games that are actually good are so rare, we should be all over it whenever such magic happens.
    I blame it on the weather. 40 degrees on my balcony since 11am. Fucking hell.

    Really though, unless you actually crave for an AAA experience, or can't stand the roguelike approach, I don't see how you could be disappointed by the game.
    I've seen GOG keys at less than 15$. Just go get it.

    If I were to nitpick, I liked the game better when it was a bit less cyberpunk and more noir in early access, but they made it so integral to the gameplay that I barely notice.
    Story mode can feel a bit lackluster and short, but that's deliberate, as the game was built for replayability from the ground up. It will still be challenging and intense. You'll be surprised how intense can a turn based game.

    Myself, I don't mind the game being short, even though I beat story mode in close to 2 hours in time attack mode, steam says I'm getting close to a 200 hour mark of total playtime on this one.
    It's actually great to play in short bursts between other stuff, or when you actually have other responsibilities. I could see myself growing weary of the game if I played it for a few days straight.
     
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  17. Jaedargender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

    Jaedar
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    Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
    Here's the only piece of consumer advice you need for this game: Buy it.
     
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  18. oasis789gender: ⚧ Arcane

    oasis789
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    Are you playing Endless mode? Just changing the alarm settings to only rise on suspicion totally changes the style of play.

    It's like Don't Starve, there is a large but finite amount of content in the game world, but you can make things totally different by adjusting stuff like hound frequency, winter duration etc.
     
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  19. oasis789gender: ⚧ Arcane

    oasis789
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    Klei announced the 2nd expansion for DS, 3rd if you count multiplayer, but nothing new for invisible. :negative:

     
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  20. Luckygender: ⚧ Arcane

    Lucky
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    Couldn't wait any longer and got it today. Completely worth it, this is gameplay porn.

    Makes me crave for X-COM as done by Klei...
     
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  21. Make America Great Again cvvgender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    Oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy.
     
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  22. Hellraisergender: ⚧ Arcane

    Hellraiser
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    Probably because it was already announced there will be an expansion focusing on the Pan-European InfoSec or how was it called.
     
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  23. oasis789gender: ⚧ Arcane

    oasis789
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    Uh, that's not really reign of giants expansion tier, just DLC with new agents. It doesn't even look as large as the caverns patch.
     
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  24. Ludo Lensegender: ⚧ Arcane

    Ludo Lense
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    I have a couple of questions regarding the game (I am releasing my critique Monday):

    Was the text that indicated that Expert Difficulty was for tuning the game in since launch?

    For EA people: Did the level structure from early access back when it was called Incognita have any story? If so what?

    Did the Dialogue/Interaction options that were removed from EA mean anything beyond Flavor?
     
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  25. spectregender: ⚧ Arcane

    spectre
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    You mean that expert was the default mode in early access?
    Yeah, it was pretty much so. It was all balanced around this level and easiest dificulties were only introduced once the game launched.
    I'm having trouble remembering, but I think at some point in EA there were two difficulty levels, one of them being equivalent to expert.
    Also, there was no custom dificulty in EA and no rewinds.

    You mean the story mode? There wasn't really any. The entire plot was only revealed when the game was out.
    All we got was character bios.
    There were no omni guards and final level. In story mode you had 3 days to prepare and they you would get a codename:insomniac mission where you had to recover a captured agent within a fixed time limit.
    All in all, It was a bit more difficult but not as difficult as the current final level.

    This system want through a number of overhauls, and finally they ditched it. It added a bit of randomization and sometimes offered a risk/reward scenario.
    At first there were "dialogues" which popped up when you used a console fro PWR. You would receive a prompt that the security is tracking you and you could ignore it (raising the alarm) hack the protocol
    or bribe the guard, which had a chance of actually lowering the alarm level.
    Later on, there were also similar dialogue windows when you interacted with safes and doors, some of them allowed you to use your skils (hacking, stealth, anarchy)
    to gain an added bonus. E.g. you found out that the safe was rigged and you had a choice to ignore it, disarm it, or go for it anyway.
    Sometimes you could tamper with a locked door to try and unlock all the doors on the level, stuff like that.
     
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