Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Informal Market Research Questions

Alfons

Prophet
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
1,031
Gothics 1&2 and risen 1&2 do a good job at starting you as a -10. you are literally the single most useless person in the entire world, its a fairly fun journey.
That's not the same since your guy has some skills. In risen 1 you can start killing epic level enemies if you have an hour to burn through. I would consider that semi-competent. Something like fallout you literally can't hit a guy who's standing right in front of you. By that logic you can say that dark souls also starts you as nobody but since it gives you all the tools to beat the game from the start you are potentially an untouchable god, that too seems rather competent.
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,823
Part of the reason is fun too. People like bullshiting with the likeminded (or at least, loosely likeminded). I haven't been to an RPG site for awhile, so it's refreshing.

If it gets truly tiresome though, then it's time to move on.
My join date wasnt quoted that much, was too agressive for that, but some people did seem to think i was drog for some reason.

That's not the same since your guy has some skills. In risen 1 you can start killing epic level enemies if you have an hour to burn through. I would consider that semi-competent. Something like fallout you literally can't hit a guy who's standing right in front of you. By that logic you can say that dark souls also starts you as nobody but since it gives you all the tools to beat the game from the start you are potentially an untouchable god, that too seems rather competent.
Thats just player skill vs character skill. Has nothing to do with zero to hero. Theres another thread discussing it, cant remember which tho
 

Alfons

Prophet
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
1,031
Thats just player skill vs character skill. Has nothing to do with zero to hero. Theres another thread discussing it, cant remember which tho
In action RPG's they are tied to each other. Player skill is part of character skill. You can be the strongest fucker on the planet but it doesn't mean shit if you can't hit anyone. In something like fallout stats are the only thing.
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,823
In action RPG's they are tied to each other. Player skill is part of character skill. You can be the strongest fucker on the planet but it doesn't mean shit if you can't hit anyone. In something like fallout stats are the only thing.
Id argue you can beat quite a lot of encounters you shouldnt be able to in fallout by using tactical positioning or ingame resources despite not actually being good at handling them. Same with baldurs gate. Player skill is a thing even in turn based deterministic games, as Craig Stern can tell you.
Its funny that you bring up fallout btw, that game can be beaten at level 1 in 15 minutes if i remember correctly.
 

laclongquan

Arcane
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
1,870,144
Location
Searching for my kidnapped sister
Howdy folks,

I have just a couple of questions for now, but will add more as time goes by.

1. Do you prefer zero to hero level based paradigm or competent to very competent points based system?

Depend on your game has a gradual increase in difficulty or a spike.

I think PST illustrate the gradual curve: the hostiles in morgue and Sigil is pretty much the same unless you go waaaaay out of your way to provoke more dangerous enemies. The skill checks also pretty much the same across the board in early game, unless you know enough to poke deeper to get harder checks

The spike would be fallout 1, 2 and new vegas. Your tutorial hostiles are easy, but if you dont follow the hints to advance, and skip out of the established path, enemies would be ready to buttfuck you. Hell, outside of tutorial, even enemies on the path would be dangerous enough.

So it's not much a matter of preference, but a matter of matching your game with the chargen.
2. What are your thoughts about using a point buy system that character creation points are broken up and spent as follows: Racial package, Background (Culture)+additional points for customization, and profession/class archetype+a few points to customize?

Too complicated. Fact is, you need to make sure the chargen is not that complicated, so when people inevitably reroll their characters, they dont have to "fuck, now I have to wrestle with that fucking chargen". Especially when it is to roll a level 1 character. Rolling high level chars like BG2 or NWN2 MOTB is another kettle of fish entirely.

What's wrong with Arcanum's method? It's still a lil bit too complicated to my taste, but it should be good enough for you.

Also, making 3 section in chargen is cheap and easy. Making sure game has enough feature to justify those sections is hard. Does the game has enough racial/background/profession checks to justify the initial timewaster?

DONT DONT DONT take Darklands as a model in this feature/ Darkland is too complicate and I gave it the middle finger immediately the few times I tried to play it, years apart.
It is an obscure game no one give it a shit for a good reason. The biggest is that it's a chore to start it.
 

stray

Learned
Joined
Aug 30, 2015
Messages
455
DONT DONT DONT take Darklands as a model in this feature/ Darkland is too complicate and I gave it the middle finger immediately the few times I tried to play it, years apart.
It is an obscure game no one give it a shit for a good reason. The biggest is that it's a chore to start it.

Not quite related, but nothing's held me back more than Bioware and Bethesda just for graphics alone. The char creators alone are my biggest waste of time. It was with easier with 2d sprites, no matter how complicated the game.
 

laclongquan

Arcane
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
1,870,144
Location
Searching for my kidnapped sister
It depend on how you design the end battles. A three(?) stage battle with no rest force you use low level spells on small fries to save high level ones for bosses.

NWN2 prove this with some of the modules when they designed them well. Plus, the area effect of grease, web, and entangle is nothing to sneeze at.
 

JamesDixon

GM Extraordinaire
Patron
Dumbfuck
Joined
Jul 29, 2015
Messages
11,176
Location
In the ether
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut
Too complicated. Fact is, you need to make sure the chargen is not that complicated, so when people inevitably reroll their characters, they dont have to "fuck, now I have to wrestle with that fucking chargen". Especially when it is to roll a level 1 character. Rolling high level chars like BG2 or NWN2 MOTB is another kettle of fish entirely.

What's wrong with Arcanum's method? It's still a lil bit too complicated to my taste, but it should be good enough for you.

Also, making 3 section in chargen is cheap and easy. Making sure game has enough feature to justify those sections is hard. Does the game has enough racial/background/profession checks to justify the initial timewaster?

DONT DONT DONT take Darklands as a model in this feature/ Darkland is too complicate and I gave it the middle finger immediately the few times I tried to play it, years apart.
It is an obscure game no one give it a shit for a good reason. The biggest is that it's a chore to start it.

Character Generation will actually be quite painless. You pick your race which has adjustments to stats then you pick your background. Finally, you pick your profession/class archetype. You do have points to spend at every step, but in the end every character is equal in terms of characteristics, ability, and skills.
 

Xathrodox86

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 27, 2014
Messages
760
Location
Nuln's labyrinth
Howdy folks,

I have just a couple of questions for now, but will add more as time goes by.

1. Do you prefer zero to hero level based paradigm or competent to very competent points based system?

2. What are your thoughts about using a point buy system that character creation points are broken up and spent as follows: Racial package, Background (Culture)+additional points for customization, and profession/class archetype+a few points to customize?

1. I like the competent system. In any RPG player should be free to distribute points as he sees fit even if it means, that his character will potentially become useless, later in the game.

2. I like it! Brings more diversity to the game and has a potential to make it more interesting.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom