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KickStarter ICY: Frostbite Edition

OwNathan

Innervoid Interactive
Developer
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
210
exile3_shot7.gif
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How can something like this sustain in terms of salary 10 full time workers and 5 freelancers? Sadly Steam is full of old school games which can barely sell a thousand copies in a year, which is not even enough for a single person.

10 full time workers no, but its a one man job, jeff vogel ( http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/) is still alive and well fed. Steam full of oldschool games ? Hell no, Theres absolutely nothing like Exile and his games on steam, he's the only one still doing such games.I can count on one hand the oldschool rpg released in steam the last ten years.
Not so easy, sadly. Vogel has a fanbase developed over the time, without that he wouldn't be well fed. At least not because of his games.

http://steamspy.com/app/357940

Telepath Tactics sold less than ICY, old school games are not easy to sell, not at all. Just like many other genres or concepts. We always do market researches and even when aiming for the best selling concepts there's a high risk of failing. Not just earning below the expectations, I mean selling like 2000 copies in a year.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,182
Ah , we dont have the same definition of old school rpgs, telepath tactics for me does not join the prestigious list. Its a low budget fire emblem clone, a tactical jrpg,completely different genre from classics western rpg.
I can understand the confusion, its even on the rpgcodex curator list, but i tried the demo of that game quickly lost interest and did not bought, its just not good enough. Surprise! it does not sell...
Now finding a good turn based blobber on pc like wizardry its almost impossible, last 20 years we had elminage and i dont like it that much, sword and sorcery underworld wich is very good,thats all. Games like ultima, theres only vogel,. Games like SSI gold box ? never ever.
I could go on and on , on steam theres a sea of jrpg like and rpgmaker stuff without any interest.
 

Brutan

Savant
Patron
Joined
Oct 9, 2014
Messages
127
Location
Romania
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Shadorwun: Hong Kong
As a satisfied Icy backer i have to say I'm not very thrilled with the new game concept. The whole project seems like a propaganda game to me. I doubt the game will present the dark side of the refugee crisis: Islamic refuges abusing Christian ones, rapes, domestic abuse, made up stories to trick naive Europeans, the attraction of welfare benefits (those refugees would never settle in Romania for example, which proves they aren't just looking for the first country that will take them)etc.

However, I like the down to earth approach that OwNathan shows. Telling stories about the uber game I like to hear about and never delivering happens a lot lately. Icy was a good game, and despite my reservations regarding the "That Day We Left" it might turn out a decent game. I don't get the feeling that OwNathan is a tree hugging leftist (just a leftist) so the game story and choices might turn out okay.

Also, after naming the first game ICY, "That Day We Left" seems like a stellar name.

Long story short, I backed "That Day We Left" because of the good track record shown so far by OwNathan & Co.
 
Self-Ejected

Bubbles

I'm forever blowing
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
7,817
ICEY is a 2D side-scrolling action game. As you follow the narrator's omnipresent voice, you will see through ICEY's eyes and learn the truth about her world.

“Alright, you caught me! This ISN'T really just a simple 2D action game, and you WON'T be seeing through ICEY's eyes... NOR will you learn the truth about her world." says the narrator.

“ICEY is a Meta game in disguise. The narrator will constantly urge you in one direction, but you must ask, "Why? Why am I following his directions? Why can't I learn the truth about this world and ICEY's purpose here?" Fight against his tyranny, and uncover what's really going on for yourself!

In fact, you can become ICEY, and let loose the shackles of your own identity. You are ICEY, and ICEY is you... if you want it that way. Feel free to keep hold of your own self, if you wish.

Now Is the Time For You to Discover the Truth.

You See? ICEY, I See!

http://store.steampowered.com/app/553640

The game seem to be doing quite well so far; apparently the extra "E" makes all the difference.
 

OwNathan

Innervoid Interactive
Developer
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
210
Any news about the remastered edition? Previous statements said release before the end of 2016
Sadly some annoying shit happened. I can't get into details because it won't be fair and professional, but let's just say that a new programmer is now working on it. What we received was simply horrible, but in less than two weeks the remastered already looks really nice, even if none of the old source code was used. Before February we will release some videos with a detailed overview of the improvements we made and an explaination about what happened. The bright side is that the Remastered will be better than anticipated and will also feature a much deeper combat system. Something that, along with the other changes and additions, should turn ICY into a game instead of a visual novel with some crappy gameplay built around the story.
 

OwNathan

Innervoid Interactive
Developer
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
210
Here it is an announcement I just posted on Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/games/375400/announcements/detail/558846854615793269

There's a short video too, showing the improvements.

So, many things happened, but we are now close to the game's release, pretty much everything aside the combat system is ready and we can focus on finishing it to create something interesting enough to give more quality to the game. The video is short and it's not easy to see all the improvements, but basically we turned a buggy visual novel into a real RPG. A small one, that's true, but with enough features and gameplay to be called RPG. In a month a final version should be ready for testing, anyone interested in trying it can write here or PM me. We don't expect a lot of bugs, we worked carefully to create solid mechanics and we'll need to test the final work mostly for balancing reasons.
 

OwNathan

Innervoid Interactive
Developer
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
210
So when are you guys doing that Zaharia thing? Liked the demo.
We'd really like to see it developed, but it would cost a lot and we don't have that much money. But with this remastered we started to build a framework to build RPGs, maybe in the future we will be able to use it to create complex RPGs.
 

OwNathan

Innervoid Interactive
Developer
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
210
Hope so. Are you making design documentation for it in your spare time?
I personally stopped working on it a year ago, I used to write something in my spare time but after the several failures and setbacks we witnessed (and sometime caused) I dropped it. We have more than 500 page of lore related stuff, but this new framework it's a project that should give us the chance, one day, to create Zaharia. Maybe our next game won't be a RPG, mostly because we need a lot of time to do some proper pre-production for it, but we are working on such framework in order to easily produce RPGs in the future, improving it in the meantime to improve the gameplay quality game after game.

The main downside of RPGs is that there's a lot of writing, game design and level design to do, a lot of things that can be done before putting programmers and 3D artists on the project, so right after we'll be done with ICY we will start the design and writing work for a quite ambitious RPG, using that framework. In the meantime we may create other games, but that doesn't mean we are ignoring our love for RPGs, we simply don't want to waste the potential of our ideas and we want to carefully plan the development and create all the design and writing foundation to do a proper, solid work. That could be the difference between a crappy RPG and a good one. ICY had some good ideas but with more work on its foundation we could've created something way better. We can't completely fix ICY, sadly, but we can work to create something better in the future using the experience we made so far.

Anyway, the project is still in our minds and we would love to finally develop it. In the meantime working on such framework means working on a structure that can be used in many different RPGs with several features: reputation system, travel system, level exploration system and many other systems. We're not touching its lore anymore, but we're working on RPGs' design and all the good things we will develop will surely appear in a future Zaharia too.
 

OwNathan

Innervoid Interactive
Developer
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
210
OwNathan: What other games are you working on right now? Is the one with the refugees still in the works?
For that one we had investors that lied to us about a marketing budget for Kickstarter and complained when the KS failed, investors that were also trying to put us in a scam scheme or something like that. Also, the communication wasn't that good and many believed we were trying to do a crappy SJW wonderland game, while we tried to do something neutral showing the good and bad realities of such phenomenon. Anyway, the investors disappeared after trying to force us to take a massive loan for them, so the project will be never finished.

We are definitely going back to RPGs and this time we will probably go for a fantasy one, but we also have a complete design for a restaurant tycoon game that should allow us to put the production team on something while we carefully work on the design and writing for the RPG. While such game won't probably find many followers in here, being this community focused on RPGs, we are a company and we have to earn at least a little to pay salaries. And also pay ourselves.

Anyway, developing the tycoon game won't stop us from developing a RPG, quite the contrary since we already planned some features to create an emergent narrative system that we will prototype and test with that tycoon game. And, unlike the RPG, it won't need several months of pre-production.
 

OwNathan

Innervoid Interactive
Developer
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
210
jeez... So much drama for vidya games.
It's not videogames, it's that doing bussiness works like that in Italy. We had zero issues with the american publisher that took ICY, things were always clear and straightforward, he kept all his promises and we kept ours. I'm not saying that we're poor victims, we simply have slightly different rules here, some things are easier while others are harder. But I think you don't want to be bothered with boring bureaucratic, cultural, and financial details.
 

Brutan

Savant
Patron
Joined
Oct 9, 2014
Messages
127
Location
Romania
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Was Icy successful (financially)? I liked it and would love to see more games like that. You could try different settings or themes just keep the format ( part VN and part RPG).
 

OwNathan

Innervoid Interactive
Developer
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
210
Was Icy successful (financially)? I liked it and would love to see more games like that. You could try different settings or themes just keep the format ( part VN and part RPG).
Without the Remastered, it wasn't. It costed us nearly 33k euros, 6k of which coming from the Indiegogo campaign, but it managed to get us only 25k euros so far (nearly 10k copies sold). And I and me partner worked completely for free, since they were already investing that budget. We did ICY with a low budget and low wages, its actual cost should've been at least two times higher.

So, it wasn't a complete failure, quite the opposite, in 2015 90% of games on Steam sold for less than 15k dollars in a year, we sold for nearly 60k dollars (but paying taxes, Steam and the publisher we only get 40% of the actual price). On the other side, we could've been way better.

I am working right now with a new programmer with 20 years of experience, investing in the company his free time, we had to work on ICY's Remastered from scratch and, despite the fact that I just applied myself to the world of programming and he only has 1-2 hours per day, since the beginning of January we did everything but the combat system, more stuff than it was in the original ICY. Having a precise direction allow us to focus on creating nearly definitive stuff, instead of prototyping stuff that will be changed ten times before being good enough for the game, but on the other side we realized the programmer we had before was probably lazy or incompetent.

When we'll be done with the Remastered, we'll see if it will manage to do more sales. We don't really believe it will bring us a lot of money, we did it because we all wanted to fix ICY and release the game that it should've been, but maybe we will earn enough to reach the break even point. The market is different right now, its full of indie games and selling enough copies is becoming harder with each passing year, but Valve is shutting down Greenlight and we also got some contacts for some good marketing.

After that, we have several solutions, doing another 2D visual novel isn't the smartest of all choices because Mirko, the artist behind ICY, is a friend of ours, but his rates are now three times higher: we can't affort to pay him enough and we don't want to force him into the job using the friendship bond. So, we will do a 3D game, since 3D assets can be used multiple times. We want to create a compelling RPG and use the experience we made with ICY and TDWL to work on something with a strong narrative, an interesting setting, but also a good gameplay. Sadly I can't tell much about it because its design needs to be polished and improved, but I will surely post here on RPGcodex as soon as the game will be something more than some doc documents on our dropbox.

The restaurant tycoon game won't affect the development of such RPG, because it won't need the same skills involved in the pre-production of a RPG, on the other side it will allow us to work on a project that will be on sale when we will have all the design foundations and writing documents we need to properly start working on that RPG.

The core concept is that, with a team full of RPG enthusiasts, we crave to work on RPGs and we will do something as soon as possible. And since the Codex has been a nice place for me to discuss and have good, solid feedbacks, this place will be the first in which I will share any detail.
 

Owlish

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck Douchebag! Village Idiot Repressed Homosexual Possibly Retarded Edgy Shitposter
Joined
Sep 14, 2013
Messages
2,817
When you come across the black guy in ICY and his sob story against the evil racists, there's no real option for the player except to fight the waycists even though you just escaped slavers and had all of your shit stolen and should presumably have more pressing concerns than playing the post-apocalyptic social activist. You're supposed to be the leader but no matter what option you select the result is the same, and afterward no matter what option you select he still joins you because others in your party beg him to.

Can't wait for your game about rapefugees.
:selfhate:
 

OwNathan

Innervoid Interactive
Developer
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
210
When you come across the black guy in ICY and his sob story against the evil racists, there's no real option for the player except to fight the waycists even though you just escaped slavers and had all of your shit stolen and should presumably have more pressing concerns than playing the post-apocalyptic social activist. You're supposed to be the leader but no matter what option you select the result is the same, and afterward no matter what option you select he still joins you because others in your party beg him to.

Can't wait for your game about rapefugees.
Why this shit again?

Let me be extremely clear, for the last time.

  • That crappy part was changed in the original ICY and changed again for the Remastered. It was crappy? Yes, it was. And instead of being here trying to defend my bad choices (I wrote that shit) I admitted my faults and try to change such shit. Mobolaji is a core character not because he's black but because he creates discussions across the whole game. With Carlos, a CLEARLY Mexican guy who sneaked into YOUR family and even took a WHITE WOMAN. I bet you didn't notice, did you? That's how smart they are.
  • I posted yesterday about That Day We Left, something that I thought was quite clear, but I'll make it even clearer: people were paying us to develop it, we had to keep the company alive. Also the agreement originally included two games, one of which was a fucking fantasy RPG the whole team wanted. But being those guys people outisde of the world of videogames, they initially wanted us to focus on something mundane. It was a choice we made to survive.
  • Despite that, I think the game could've been a good one. We wanted to do one thing: fuck with all the stupid prejudices people have. Including the ones usually belonging to libtards (is this the right word?) thinking that millions of people can just settle peacefully in Europe without any possible issue. The internet today is full of libtards discussing with right wing reactionaries, too bad that on most issues they are both wrong because crappy ideals can't fucking solve anything: building a massive wall to keep refugees out won't work, welcome them all won't work. What we wanted to do is to tell the story of a Syrian family, a family that included a fucking fanatic, the woman. Among the different endings there were one in which the annoying son of the main character would turn into a terrorist and blow something up. How politically correct is this? We wanted to show something real, not a fucking unicorn wonderland with armies of refugees holding hands with white hippies.
  • And I don't care if you don't believe me, but that's the truth. I don't like how society is changing right now. I can't read on Polygon bullshit like that Geralt is a classic macho white male character, that the game is pure maschilism or that the lack of black people in a polish-inspired fantasy is a problem. I get cancer when I read people saying that there are 180 genders, because gender dysphoria is a serious issue but only concerns a small minority of people, people that will be ignored because attention-seeking assholes need to define themselves as "genderfluid manta-male techno-woman". I was educated as a tolerant person and I will never be discriminatory against blacks, gays, women, refugees and so on, but at the same time I think that racist jokes should be allowed and people should stop getting offended by everything, people with a crybaby attitude thinking that this world has to be fair, for some fucked up reason. I guess we all read shit across the internet, shit like "don't post on your blog that you go jogging because you offend me, I'm fat" or "looking at a woman is like raping her", but that's not more idiotic than people deeply convinced that ALL women are inherently inferior or ALL refugees are rapists, it's simply a different way to be idiot. So, stop thinking that we wanted to do a libtard game, because we didn't.
The only thing I regret is our inability to communicate those concepts, because from the outside I can clealry see how it could appear as a retarded game, but we didn't want to develop a retarded game and even in the short demo everyone can see things like Fatima's fanatism. We did many things wrong, but we were not working on something stupid.
 
Last edited:

Owlish

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck Douchebag! Village Idiot Repressed Homosexual Possibly Retarded Edgy Shitposter
Joined
Sep 14, 2013
Messages
2,817
With Carlos, a CLEARLY Mexican guy who sneaked into YOUR family and even took a WHITE WOMAN. I bet you didn't notice, did you? That's how smart they are.

That's how smart who is? What does that have to do with what I said? Kudos to you for pointing out how tryhard you are to show how not racist you are, I guess. Hardly the same scenario as I what I said and it makes sense that you would team up with them. It's a net gain to your group with little risk. Unless you're saying that you don't actually have an option to tell them to beat it?

Despite that, I think the game could've been a good one. We wanted to do one thing: fuck with all the stupid prejudices people have. Including the ones usually belonging to libtards (is this the right word?) thinking that millions of people can just settle peacefully in Europe without any possible issue. The internet today is full of libtards discussing with right wing reactionaries, too bad that on most issues they are both wrong because crappy ideals can't fucking solve anything: building a massive wall to keep refugees out won't work, welcome them all won't work. What we wanted to do is to tell the story of a Syrian family, a family that included a fucking fanatic, the woman. Among the different endings there were one in which the annoying son of the main character would turn into a terrorist and blow something up. How politically correct is this? We wanted to show something real, not a fucking unicorn wonderland with armies of refugees holding hands with white hippies.

W0rTfy0.jpg


Migrants entering Hungary after the barrier.

Why won't a wall work, exactly?

PdQFRAe.jpg


Walls and border patrols work pretty nicely, actually.

Unless you mean it's inhumane to keep them out. Well they can be resettled in the Middle East with a more compatible culture for cheaper. And anyway, fuck 'em.
 

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