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Keldryn

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I'm not familiar with Game Maker Studio.

A major benefit to Unity is the Asset Store. It lets you fill in gaps in your skill set inexpensively. I could spend months developing a responsive character controller, or I could spend $70 on one and focus my time on game content.

Not to mention all of the art assets: characters, animations, environment models, particle effects, etc. Sure, it's better to have custom art for your game, but if you're not an artist and can't afford to pay for custom built art then at least you can still make a game.

You could certainly build your game concept with Unity + ORK Framework. Your best bet may be to try both toolsets and see what works for you.

Unity has a larger community and thus you'll probably have an easier time finding help when you need it. ORK has a great community in its forum and it's a tool that is designed for building just this type of game.
 

Keldryn

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If you decide to check out the Unity & ORK Framework approach, make sure you get the last Unity 5.5 release and not the current 5.6 release. There were some significant changes in 5.6 and it always takes a bit of time for asset developers to get their packages updated. ORK 2.10.1 (the latest) still needs Unity 5.5 and has some issues with 5.6.
 

Nathaniel3W

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Programming is boring and you'll spend your entire life doing it unless you have a massive team to help you.

For me, programming is the most enjoyable part of making a game. And it's also the fastest. The most boring and tedious part of making a game is drawing sprite sheets. Each sprite sheet is the result of endless hours of drawing slightly different versions of the same picture.
 

Keldryn

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You can get a fair bit of mileage out of modifying 3D assets that you purchase off the asset store. Swapping out textures and using different shaders can do a lot to disguise the fact that you're using purchased art. :P

If using an engine that already supports 3D (as opposed to writing one), I find it a lot easier to work with 3D art as it is generally much easier to modify than 2D art.

I'm not a good enough artist to do any sort of sprite work, but I can do some 3D modeling and texturing.
 
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Davaris

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I suggest shopping around for engines as some are better for 2D. Case in point, I am trying Godot and I've gotten more done with it, than I did with Unity or Unreal.


Is Iceblink cross platform? I see PC and Android, but no Linux or Apple.
 
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Keldryn

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That's super great, but I wanted to make a pure 2d game. Heh

I'm just showing you the path of least resistance; the more hats you have to wear when making a game, the greater the chances of giving up partway through. Sometimes it's best to design around the resources you have access to, rather than building whatever you can imagine.

Doesn't matter to me if you follow my advice or not. It's certainly not the only approach.
 
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In simplest case this is document where you describe wtf you want to make. Though for newbie it's better just start code right away.
 

Nathaniel3W

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I don't think recommending a design document makes you an asshole. It might not be necessary for someone who just needs to learn, but it's probably a good habit to get into and definitely a good idea when you're ready to start making a game.

Also, if you want to make a pure 2D game, but you're having trouble making or finding assets, you can take screenshots of 3D assets. A lot of people dislike that look, but just remember it's an option.
 
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire

Personally I would spend a year

(a) programming something not gaming that overlaps with gaming
(b) trying to publish a short story or script
(c) making a board game and trying to sell as many as you can in the indie market

Which would allow you to approach the more daunting task of making a video game from a position of strength.

You can also just do one of the above and find other people who do the other two and make a company.
 
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Oh yeah, drawing. That's pretty important.

The problem is that unlike novels or paintings video games require multiple talent sets in order to do well, so making one on your own is basically impossible unless you "condescend" to toolkits like RPG Maker.
 
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Excidium II

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What exactly is the goal here? If you want to get an industry job, you need skills, and you can demonstrate skills with a portfolio: start with a NWN2 module or something similar, where the assets and systems are already there and you just need to focus on the level design, storytelling etc.
I gather he has ideas and wants to make game.
 
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Barnabas

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I believe in u

U can download unity engine free trial and fool around with that
 
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Nathaniel3W

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Now please give me the speech about how i'm going to be a failure and end up killing myself or something.

How about this instead?

AvoidCriticism.jpg


Just expect, starting right now, that the entire internet will think that everything you do and everything you create is going to be complete shit. Every screenshot, every question, every update. If the criticism is helpful, follow it. If it's not helpful, ignore it. There will be too many people telling you that you suck to respond to all of them. Just keep learning, improving, and working.
 
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Repulsive

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Learn UE 4. Easy as shit to use and also comes with a template for creating pretty much anything. It also has an extremely powerful blueprint system so you can get a lot done without knowing a single line of code.
 

Lexx

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Well, just make mods? Take Fallout New Vegas or Skyrim or whatever and start toying around with the construction kit. Read many tutorials and recreate what they tell you. Once you got a hang of what you're doing, you can start doing some smaller project like... I don't know, make a quest with 2 NPCs at max. Nothing big, because then you will just fail. Start small, basically start as small as possible. Do not get trapped in making graphics or whatever. If you start to care only about a pretty game menu or something, your project will fail.

Your project has a 50% chance not to fail if you start with writing good documents. If you want to know how good design documents can look like, check out the old leaked Van Buren docs. In them you can find a general buildup and many hints about stuff you have to think about. If you don't even write a (rather detailed) base document and just start making graphics, your project has a 90% chance to fail.
 

gaussgunner

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So you want a pure 2D sidescroller. That makes things easier; no isometric fuckery and no 8-way spritesheets or 3D models.

Game Maker Studio might be good for that. Never tried it myself, but I've seen indie games using it. Look at RPG Maker too just to get an idea of everything a basic RPG engine does.

I'm guessing you will want to get into programming if you care about game mechanics and non-CYOA story systems. It's not super hard. Try making a few small text adventures.
 

Agesilaus

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Making short CYOA games is very easy, try making one. Here is a basic CYOA game I made without too much planning or preparation:

https://www.keksociety.com/2017/01/25/aeschines-glimpse-of-adulthood-available-for-android-windows/

However, I think we both want to make something more complex and impressive. Doing that, though, involves a lot of work until you develop your own programming and art skills. Or, you can try to form a team.

The latter is my suggestion. I am not even thinking about programming languages or artwork at this point. I'm just focusing on creating a design document and finishing all the writing. Then, when all the writing is complete and the game has a nice pdf design document, I will try and find some people to help with programming and art.

Does anyone here have any experience putting together a team, or approaching established groups?
 

Keldryn

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Putting together a team isn't super difficult -- the tricky part is keeping that team over the course of many months when everyone is working on it in their spare time and not getting paid. You'll make great progress at first and then later on 6 months will go by with virtually nothing accomplished and half the team has dropped off the face of the earth (I've been on both sides of this).

Established groups generally aren't looking for game designs to work on, nor are designers in particularly high demand. Most often they need artists or programmers.

If you have a design that you want to work on, your best option is to start work on it and try to recruit others once you have a working prototype to show.
 

Agesilaus

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Putting together a team isn't super difficult -- the tricky part is keeping that team over the course of many months when everyone is working on it in their spare time and not getting paid. You'll make great progress at first and then later on 6 months will go by with virtually nothing accomplished and half the team has dropped off the face of the earth (I've been on both sides of this).

Established groups generally aren't looking for game designs to work on, nor are designers in particularly high demand. Most often they need artists or programmers.

If you have a design that you want to work on, your best option is to start work on it and try to recruit others once you have a working prototype to show.

For a cRPG, the writing would be up there with the programming and artwork, right? The completed writing is many hours of work. Having made the simple CYOA game linked in the other post, I can definitely appreciate how long the artwork can take, but a major issue was the motivation to write large amounts of dialogue of sufficient quality and historical accuracy, and have it piece together properly. Not to mention drafting item lists and descriptions, maps, etc.

I agree with you that for other genres it is much less important; I was playing around with Streets of Rogue recently, and the writing for that could be done on the fly (although it is well done).
 
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Keldryn

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For a cRPG, the writing would be up there with the programming and artwork, right?

Yes and no.

The writing is important -- but it isn't gameplay (unless we're talking about a CYOA or text adventure). All of the brilliant dialogue and in-depth world building doesn't count for much unless there is an actual game making use of it.

I think that I often come across as dismissive of design documents. Mostly because I've seen countless would-be game designers writing massive volumes (world hisyory and lore, drawing world maps, etc) without ever really trying to implement even the most basic gameplay systems.

For a dialogue heavy game, write up 2 or 3 characters and then get those conversations into a working prototype before writing any more content (just IMO of course).

And that's why I virtually always discourage people on message boards from starting by writing detailed design docs.

For experienced designers working as part of an established team, they are absolutely essential.

For a hobbyist with little or no game development experience, they are a complete waste of time, in my opinion. One is far better off prototyping different gameplay ideas and learning how to iterate on those ideas.

And if you want to someday recruit a team to build your game, a design document alone isn't generally going to cut it. Certainly, the people you REALLY want working with you aren't going to be swayed unless you have something playable.

I don't recommend that anyone learn to program a game from scratch unless a) they really want to or b) they want to be a game programmer. Get either Unity or Unreal, and get some sort of game framework or visual scripting tool. That gives you a huge head start on developing gameplay instead of spending weeks just getting a character walking around the screen.

TL;DR: Inexperienced designers who start with writing design docs generally include exponentially more content than is reasonable to include in the game.
 
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Nathaniel3W

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Or, you can try to form a team.

I would say that for a beginner, do not try to form a team. I guarantee you everyone will drop out before anything gets accomplished. If however you're working by yourself, you can work on things that interest you, and you can learn what you need to learn, and go at your own pace. And then everything is your own responsibility and no one else's.

After you've learned something about making games, if you have an idea--

--Actually, let me go off on a tangent here. Ideas are cheap. Everyone has an idea. Most people have lots of ideas. This is why writing and game design documentation are generally considered the least important aspects among small-time devs and aspiring devs. It's because there is an overabundance of people who want to make a game--tell a story, be the virtual dungeon master, or whatever--and there is a shortage of people who have the technical and artistic skills to turn that idea into something worth playing.

So back to what I was saying, if you have learned how to make a game by working on your own little projects, and then you still have an idea that you won't be able to realize by yourself, then prototype it, fill it with crappy programmer art, just make something to show the concept. And then recruit a team.
 

Keldryn

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Yes. Not only are ideas a dime a dozen, but frequently those ideas change into something completely different by the end of development.

And yet I can't count how many people I've heard talk about how they have an amazing idea and extensive design docs but jealously guard them because they think someone will steal their idea. LOL.

If all you have are "amazing" ideas, PLEASE develop some technical skills. Don't be the "ideas guy."
 

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