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I want to immerse myself in the Decline

Discussion in 'Made for Console Popamole RPGs' started by Ovg, Mar 15, 2012.

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Ovg Learned

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#1

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Bros, I wanted to take a plunge into the mound of shit we call decline due to my urge to fap to pixels. As of now I've got:

Dragon Age 1, awakening and Dragon Age 2
Baldur's Gate 1, 2 and Throne of Bhall
Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3

Fallout 3 (which mods add romances?)
New Vegas (which mods add romances?)
Skyrim (which mods add romances?)
Oblivion (which mods add romances?)
JarlFrank Великий князь

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#2

http://www.loverslab.com/showthread.php?tid=1301

Buy my book! It's awesome! It's fucked up! It's super fun!
(also it's in German but you should buy it even if you don't understand the language because, you know, it's awesome)
Alternative purchase link (publisher's onlineshop)

Erzherzog: JarlFrank4WorldDictator
Sterotypical Villain: On another note: Frank deserves a promotion.
MisterStone: JarlFrank is probably someone's creepy uncle who collects blood porn.
Korgan: By the way, JarlFrank, you're fucked up. I'm now almost sure you're the Fuhrer's reincarnation.
Menckenstein Lunacy of Caen: Todd Reaver

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#3

www.rpgwatch.com - enjoy

"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
octavius Erudite

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#4

Baldur's Gates "the decline"?
How edgy.

Grunker Brofists this.
Ovg Learned

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#5

I remember that the romances were harlequiny a bit. The game itself and the mechanics were rock solid in my opinion.
DraQ Arcane

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#6

octavius said: ↑

Baldur's Gates "the decline"?
How edgy.

Why do you care? It's not in first person.

<^ಠ.=.ರೃ^>
Quetzacoatl Scholar

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#7

DraQ said: ↑

octavius said: ↑

Baldur's Gates "the decline"?
How edgy.

Why do you care? It's not in first person.

I can feel the edginess burning through your scaly skin

MetalCraze said: ↑

@Jasede
NWN2 campaign is not stupid. It's a rare thing in todays games (in all of genres) when bad guys are driven by ironic logic (take Black Garius f. e. and how his evil plan turned for him in the end =) ), not by bioware-styled script "I'm a bad guy, so I must kill everybody because I'm bad".
NWN2 is far not a great rpg. But it's definitely WORTH a shot.
I know why VD didnt like it, but NWN2 indeed has places where you have to fight countless monsters, like in the end of act 1, but it's definitely FAR FAR more intelligent than IWD2. As well as better than NWN1 OC.
As someone mentioned here NWN2 is uneven. In some places it's a huge letdown, in some - it's a great game. And because of the second places it works. At least for me.
But as I said - you should try it.
voice acting is... satisfactory. I really liked Neeshka's voice, while Elanee sucked. Khelgar is a standard dwarf - true, like some others, but some voices are pretty fine chosen.
octavius Erudite

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#8

DraQ said: ↑

octavius said: ↑

Baldur's Gates "the decline"?
How edgy.

Why do you care? It's not in first person.

You can do better than that.
circ Prophet

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#9

wax nostalgic

WE HAVE WORMSIGN THE LIKES OF WHICH EVEN GOD HAS NEVER SEEN

MEGA MADNESS SUPER BADNESS WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?
DraQ Arcane

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#10

octavius said: ↑

DraQ said: ↑

octavius said: ↑

Baldur's Gates "the decline"?
How edgy.

Why do you care? It's not in first person.

You can do better than that.

I can but I won't.

<^ಠ.=.ರೃ^>
Revenant Learned

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#11

Dragon age 1 is no decline.

D:
Awor Szurkrarz Arcane

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#12

octavius said: ↑

Baldur's Gates "the decline"?
How edgy.

Edgy? Why? In old days IE games were pretty disliked and criticized a lot on the KKKodex. Here are some examples:

Saint_Proverbius said: ↑

Marketting people and trend bandwagonning are the main reason I play Spiderweb's CRPGs and Prelude to Darkness. I don't want to keep playing the same game, over and over again. I already have Diablo and Baldur's Gate, though I admit I truly hated Baldur's Gate to the point where I couldn't stand to play it more than a day or so.

I'd much rather have something new than something recycled repeatedly.

Rosh said: ↑

Well, alignments are okay in D&D P&P. They do give a bit of a guideline for the player to keep to. If there was more taken into play with that, then it would perhaps press the player (and character) into playing more into the archetypical alignments.

BioWare's "Reputation system" was...gah, it defies description. To sum it up, it was a load of bullshit. A paladin could get better prices at the Thieve's Guild in BG2 than a thief with lower Reputation.

Then, how about the random travel encounters where you had NO chance of winning? Imoen and a fighter were often no match for the bandits you'd encounter when you were on your way to that Inn. Hell, the critters in the first areas were sometimes a challenge enough, and if you played as a mage...

Another point of crappy design where D&D is translated to CRPGs is where you double in power from level 1 and 2, in the case of most classes. Most other CRPGs have it where you gradually go up, like in Fallout and Arcanum. D&D, in the P&P realm, you often have a series of small adventures to build yourself up in knowedge from the greenie up. Often I find low-level play a bit fun because of this reason. In CRPGs, you're either reloading or very lucky.

That is another flaw that has been present in most modern D&D CRPGs, in that the lower levels are farming time, building up obscene amounts of exp to get to a higher level, and the game is often balanced for those steep steps. The lower levels are less about learning who and what the character is, very little character development (and often the character is just a mirror of the player), and more about doing some weak quests to get to level 2. In P&P that is played well, the game is consistently a learning experience for the characters. It's meant to be both educational for them and fun for the player without worrying too much about tough battles.

That's why Planescape: Torment was good, and seems to be a fluke. It's the best of the Inbred Engine games, because it doesn't force H&S and munchkinism like the others do. It does leave that open a bit if people want to play a bit H&S, but it also allows a person to explore the characters and the setting more than the other IE games combined.

Rosh said: ↑

Anonymous said:

The only good game Bioware have made was MDK2, and that's because it was a sequel. All they had to do was not fuck it up. Any of their forays into "original" games have been pretty fucking miserable, and from what I can tell, a downhill slide since Baldur's Gate.

If it's any consolation to BioWare, BIS did make a game crappier than Baldur's Gate and NWN.

It's called "Asswind Dale", a lot of hot wind about "role-playing" in an arctic setting. At it's release, it was competing with Diablo II, and while Diablo II was the more fun, AWD got some support from the AD&D (and ADHD) fanboys.

The more time goes on, it seems that Planescape: Torment is one hell of a fluke for BIS given the mediocrity of their work in general and the bugfest of Fallout 2. PS:T was the only truly halfway original Inbred Engine game out there. Then with BioWare, I'll agree that all they had to do with MDK2 was not screw it up. At that point, you couldn't trust the overpriced chimps at Shiny to do that. 8)

Rosh said: ↑

BioWare's talent is really limited to taking an incredibly clichÃ© setting and adding in some esoteric material to make it seem good. Poor quality shows within a short amount of time to the trained eye. That their original "blockbuster" project of the Infinity Engine with Baldur's Gate borrowed only half-ass from Fallout and added in Diablo elements was much worse. It was essentially poor use of the speech tree system Fallout used and a hokey setting with a hit parade to appease the fanboys. Their ability for creativity is sadly limited, mostly by how they come up with excuses, and thusly their dungeon designs are some of the worst I've ever seen. That includes placement and whatnot. It is only a logical conclusion that their support for an editor along the same lines would be just as crappy.

Rosh said: ↑

Actually, in the case of Baldur's Gate, they do have reputation and alignment, and the system is just piss poor. Please tell me how a Lawful Good character can maintain a bad rep, for example.

Even in BGII the reputation system is flawed in a clear way. I'm not going to install it and check for precise prices, but when your LG Paladin is getting obscene discounts from the Thieve's Den fence, there's an obvious problem that violates the setting.

A few things I learned from most of the Inbred Engine games:

Charisma only has place in the stores.
Thieves don't like each other. That is why Paladins and goody-two-shoes get discounts.
Stupid people and supremely intelligent people speak the same way, and are treated the same.

Rosh said: ↑

Muze said:

Muze wrote:
Nobody every complained that way about Baldur's Gate but that's linear in the same fashion.

Would you like to retract that?

nope. But thanks for asking.

Well, many do consider it very linear, with numerous faults in the dialog including having no real affect upon the game and most choices leading to combat. Quests are often solved just one way and can be the epitome of Fed-Ex (and let's not get into their crap level design, either).

The second one wasn't much better and had the same linear game with a stuffing of bullshit side-quests to offer as padding to try and fool the player into thinking the game had variety.

So I would call it a bit laughably wrong that "Nobody every[sic] complained that way about Baldur's Gate but that's linear in the same fashion." You'd be surprised to know how many don't care for the game, namely because there's essentially only one way to play through the game.

As for quality vs quantity, it's still amusing to see that 3d is still running into its limitations. Nobody has made a world as populated and quality-filled as Ultima 7 so far that I've seen.

Saint_Proverbius said: ↑

Muze said:

oh one more thing. You brought up a very good point about linearity in this game. I've seen posts in the RPG newsgroup that denounce Arx for "being on rails," which I just think is not true. To paraphrase your comments - the story is linear, the game is not.

I haven't played it, but if the story is linear, then the game is linear. Side quests don't make a CRPG less linear, nor do having multiple methods of solving things through that story make it less linear. Regardless of how you do a quest, if you're still doing those in a set, sequential order, it's linear.

I'm not saying multiple methods through quests is a bad thing. I'd actually say, it's great! More games need to do it! I'm just saying that if the game forces you through it in a set manner that's never open to how the order of things are done, if they are done at all, is linear.

There's a HUGE difference there. Nobody every complained that way about Baldur's Gate but that's linear in the same fashion. People compare Arx to Fallout, expecting the same level of open-endedness, which is totally unfair considering the graphical superiority of Arx over top view RPGs which have more freedom to create huge sprawling worlds.

Baldur's Gate was compared to Fallout by a lot of people, and has been since it came out. Honestly, the success of Baldur's Gate has always amazed me, since it came a year after Fallout and didn't do a single thing better than Fallout. In fact, there's a large number things even the older games, like Ultima, did more of and did better than Baldur's Gate.

I really don't consider "graphical superiority" as a plus over "non-linear", or even an equal. In fact, I never rate CRPGs on the quality of their graphics because they're not interactive screensavers.

I know what you're thinking: Morrowind. Well as far as I'm concerned there IS no cohesive story there. I mean sure there's a story that you may follow, but all that open-endedness is just bland and in no way like Fallout.

Morrowind has a story, but it's fairly linear. I just ignored it and roamed free.

Clockwork Knight said: ↑

Sometimes I wonder if GD isn't just a social engineering project in order to get Awor to snap and strangle the mailman or something.

"This bonds of humaneness provides me supreme disgust
Time has come to bury you all in a sea of fire
That is about to rise

And consumed shall be man"
Quetzacoatl Scholar

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#13

It's interesting how the opinions of this Codex slowly change as old posters leave and newfags come. But what is most interesting was how utterly storyfag dominated the place used to be.

MetalCraze said: ↑

@Jasede
NWN2 campaign is not stupid. It's a rare thing in todays games (in all of genres) when bad guys are driven by ironic logic (take Black Garius f. e. and how his evil plan turned for him in the end =) ), not by bioware-styled script "I'm a bad guy, so I must kill everybody because I'm bad".
NWN2 is far not a great rpg. But it's definitely WORTH a shot.
I know why VD didnt like it, but NWN2 indeed has places where you have to fight countless monsters, like in the end of act 1, but it's definitely FAR FAR more intelligent than IWD2. As well as better than NWN1 OC.
As someone mentioned here NWN2 is uneven. In some places it's a huge letdown, in some - it's a great game. And because of the second places it works. At least for me.
But as I said - you should try it.
voice acting is... satisfactory. I really liked Neeshka's voice, while Elanee sucked. Khelgar is a standard dwarf - true, like some others, but some voices are pretty fine chosen.
pipka Scholar

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#14

sup drog
octavius Erudite

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#15

Well, I didn't like Baldur's Gate much at first myself, but I certainly didn't think it was "decline" either. It was an OK game that years later got hugely much better with the right mods.
BG 2 OTOH was an instant classic. One could argue that the romances were the start of the decline, but the romances could be (and were by me) ignored.
Ebonsword Scholar

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#16

Revenant said: ↑

Dragon age 1 is no decline.

Obviously you never actually played it.
Quetzacoatl Scholar

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#17

pipka said: ↑

sup drog

Didn't you know? I'm Chefe, Prosper, and Drog all at the same time!

MetalCraze said: ↑

@Jasede
NWN2 campaign is not stupid. It's a rare thing in todays games (in all of genres) when bad guys are driven by ironic logic (take Black Garius f. e. and how his evil plan turned for him in the end =) ), not by bioware-styled script "I'm a bad guy, so I must kill everybody because I'm bad".
NWN2 is far not a great rpg. But it's definitely WORTH a shot.
I know why VD didnt like it, but NWN2 indeed has places where you have to fight countless monsters, like in the end of act 1, but it's definitely FAR FAR more intelligent than IWD2. As well as better than NWN1 OC.
As someone mentioned here NWN2 is uneven. In some places it's a huge letdown, in some - it's a great game. And because of the second places it works. At least for me.
But as I said - you should try it.
voice acting is... satisfactory. I really liked Neeshka's voice, while Elanee sucked. Khelgar is a standard dwarf - true, like some others, but some voices are pretty fine chosen.
Takeda Kenshi Learned

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#18

Quetzacoatl said: ↑

pipka said: ↑

sup drog

Didn't you know? I'm Chefe, Prosper, and Drog all at the same time!

sup Cheproog.
Haba Harbinger of Decline

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#19

Sexout is the only way:
http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa477/mastercchris/Temporary/1001-1010.jpg
http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/images/42977-1-1311618120.jpg
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6664/screenshot35pw.jpg

Or some shit on Oblivion:
http://shy.jsphr.net/upload/img/ups24137.jpg

NSFW
Revenant Learned

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#20

Ebonsword said: ↑

Revenant said: ↑

Dragon age 1 is no decline.

Obviously you never actually played it.

I have beaten it and am currently replaying it. It's a good game, especially considering what shit comes out today. Dragon age 1 has a fairly robust combat system, not entirely dumb character progression and emotional engagement (lol). I thought Dragon age was bad, but then I played Skyrim and after that Dragon age looked like a masterpiece to me.

D:
adure Educated

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#21

Revenant said: ↑

Ebonsword said: ↑

Revenant said: ↑

Dragon age 1 is no decline.

Obviously you never actually played it.

I have beaten it and am currently replaying it. It's a good game, especially considering what shit comes out today. Dragon age 1 has a fairly robust combat system, not entirely dumb character progression and emotional engagement (lol). I thought Dragon age was bad, but then I played Skyrim and after that Dragon age looked like a masterpiece to me.

Teh Button of AWSOMNESS!
Revenant Learned

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#22

Well, no one is forcing any of the romances onto you, especially the homosexual ones in Dragon age 1

D:
Carrion Savant

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#23

I'm pretty sure Zevran starts flirting with you almost instantly unless you kill him the moment you meet him (which is something I regret not doing when I played the game). I finished both BGs and the first KotoR without even realizing there were romances in those games, but in DA:O that stuff just keeps jumping on your face every time you talk to someone. It really takes some effort to avoid romance in that game. It made Mass Effect feel subtle.

Dragon Age was marketed as being a spiritual successor to BG but I thought it was more like a really badly paced KotoR set in an utterly boring fantasy world and filled with trash mobs, mentally challenged characters and terrible MMO fetch quests. Of course it wasn't as bad as some of the other shit that gets released, but that's not much of a feat.
octavius Erudite

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#24

Carrion said: ↑

I'm pretty sure Zevran starts flirting with you almost instantly unless you kill him the moment you meet him (which is something I regret not doing when I played the game). I finished both BGs and the first KotoR without even realizing there were romances in those games, but in DA:O that stuff just keeps jumping on your face every time you talk to someone. It really takes some effort to avoid romance in that game. It made Mass Effect feel subtle.

Did modders fix it?
Stinger Liturgist

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#25

New Vegas is more incline than decline. But it shouldn't be too hard to fuck it up with some terrible sex mods.

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