I have no patience for RPGs anymore

[Mustawd]

Some of the answers in this thread are pretty pathetic annoying. I agree that RPGs are notoriously padded, but don't use your age as an excuse for your popamole tastes. Yes, life gets more complicated when you get older and you have less time for your hobbies. But it's simple: if you care, you will make time. If you don't, just drop the hobby rather than half-assing it like a mid-tier manager who plays a game of tennis once a month.

It took me over half a year to finish MM6 because it's the type of game that you need to spend at least three or four hours on per session if you want to get anything signficant done, and I rarely have that much time left in a day. It boiled down to a simple question: is this game fun enough to be worth the scheduling hassle? And guess what, the fact that it took a lot of dedication to finish made it all the more rewarding, and it motivated me to try the same with Wizardry 8, which is now one of my top 5 RPGs.

Accept the fact that you have less time, evaluate your priorities accordingly, and then act on them. If that means dropping certain genres, fine. Just don't whine to the world about the fact that you don't care enough to make it work.

Please. Just as things like family, career, etc. increasingly eat at your time, they also eat at your focus. This doesn't just apply to RPGs. It's across a lot of different hobbies. For example, I love reading biographies. I've had Abraham Lincoln's bio in my iPad que for over three years. Why? Because it's complex, rich, and deserves proper attention. Could I have finished it over three years? Sure..but I would have enjoyed it less, and most likely forgotten most of it by the time I got to the end.

No one is saying we don't "enjoy" these old school rpgs anymore. But when time is short, it's hard to enjoy the games in 1 hr increments. Now if you can do it, that's great for you. But to me enjoying some of these old school RPGs meant playing them consistently over a period of time...where builds/quests/story lines were at the forefront of my mind. Not shoved to the back of my mind after months of 60-80 hr work weeks; in which case my brain is fried after each day.

Obviously, this kind of work/life balance is my choice. Speaking only on my own experience, it's one of the reasons why I'm looking to start a less stressful phase in my career.


Tl;DR - Don't judge me cuz my life is busy as shit, and it's harder for me to find the time to enjoy good RPGs. At least I'm able to play some incline, even if it's not a 100+ hr epic.

 

[Siobhan]

Tl;DR - Don't judge me cuz my life is busy as shit as busy as that of any other person with a job and family, and it's harder for me to find the time to enjoy good RPGs prioritize my time. At least I'm able to play some incline, even if it's not a 100+ hr epic use it as a shield against criticism.

Seriously, I will gladly judge the hell out of you --- you won't care (presumably) and I get to feel morally superior, which makes for a nice egoboost once in a while. Just two remarks:

1) It's "RPG codex - doesn't scale to your level", not "RPG codex - we accept each other's shortcomings".
2) if you don't make an effort to read that Lincoln bio soon, you'll never read it at all because there's always something eating at your time and focus. So you better think about how to make that happen, e.g. scheduling off-times and taking notes so you can easily jump back in after an extended break. Hopefully that new phase in your career will also improve things, but don't count on that alone making a big difference.

There's always ways to rationalize why one isn't doing something. And that's why your average 40-year old is out of shape, hasn't learned anything new in over 10 years, only consumes media that doesn't challenge them, and doesn't pick up any new hobbies or interests. Just because things are harder than they used to be doesn't mean that it's somehow okay to take the easy route of complacency.

 

[Mustawd]

Seriously, I will gladly judge the hell out of you --- you won't care (presumably) and I get to feel morally superior, which makes for a nice egoboost once in a while.

Hey, if I can help your self esteem then my good deed for the day is done. In the meantime, 67% of the codex is doing what the codex does: Talk about interesting RPGs. But whatevah. I guess we all have to get the rust off our alts at some point or another.

 

[MicoSelva]

So, is it just me ? Or are other vets out there losing the patience to play through classical 40ish hours games ?

It is not just you, you just got older.

When you are young, your brain easily adjusts to new experiences and you can play various types of games, but as you grow older, these changes develop more and more slowly, and you will enjoy stuff that suits your already formed brain patterns more, while others will annoy you and you will not have patience for them. This is the same mechanism that makes learning harder as you grow older, the reason people get more stubborn and less likely to change their minds as they get get older, and the cause of nostlgia factor, etc.

'Music these days is awful* - when I was young we had really good music, not this modern crap.'

Enduring this lack of patience is a way to excercise your brain, by the way, and can prevent/slow down mental degradation at old age.

---

*music these days really is awful.

 

[Trip]

2) if you don't make an effort to read that Lincoln bio soon, you'll never read it at all because there's always something eating at your time and focus. So you better think about how to make that happen, e.g. scheduling off-times and taking notes so you can easily jump back in after an extended break. Hopefully that new phase in your career will also improve things, but don't count on that alone making a big difference.

There's always ways to rationalize why one isn't doing something. And that's why your average 40-year old is out of shape, hasn't learned anything new in over 10 years, only consumes media that doesn't challenge them, and doesn't pick up any new hobbies or interests. Just because things are harder than they used to be doesn't mean that it's somehow okay to take the easy route of complacency.

This is well-said. I also agree that dedicating yourself to something makes in inherently more rewarding. However, there is a lot of stuff about long RPGs that is simply wasting time and some people's llack of it makes that stuff sting more. (Age is just a partial reason; level of responsibilities in life is more important. I'm 29 and I'm currently at a loss how to fit my family, RPGs (all sorts, including PnP), game design, writing, reading and my job into the 24 hours I have every day.

And my objection is a pretty similar one to the I have with genre novels nowadays. The RPG, like the novel, is an extremely demanding creative form, arguably the most extensible and rich one to try out all sorts of concepts on, and definitely a serious investment on part of the player. I just don't want authors winging it; and unlike novels, it's not like there's a deluge of RPGs out there at any given point in time, not to mention the "grognard" social stigma on the hobby, which makes people uneasy about sinking massive amounts of time in it, unless it has something interesting to offer (not saying "good", but much of the time "interesting" is enough for me).

 

[Visbhume]

Speaking of the degenerate "gameplay" that characterizes RPGs, this video about power fantasies and leveling up is interesting:

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

The only thing I don't understand about RPGs is:

1) why do I have to loot every cupboard in the city?

This is actually an interesting point. Most RPGs have a shit-ton of cupboards, chests, drawers, boxes, bags, etc lying around, containing everything from valuable equipment to trash. RPG players have been conditioned to search through them, and even when I was a high level character in New Vegas, for example, loaded with more weapons, ammo and items than I could ever need, I still often found myself instinctively rifling through desks and drawers. Is this a valuable mechanic that the genre should keep or an obsolete holdover from older games?

My take on it is this: I would prefer RPGs to have logical containers, in other words they would contain stuff that's in line with where they are, what kind of container they are, and common sense. And then, this would be used by the game in organic ways. So for example, a cupboard in somebody's apartment is only going to contain mundane everyday stuff, a safe might contain money, a high end metal chest in a rich mansion could contain some really valuable stuff, a locker in a military base would contain weapons, and so on. This would make the world richer and more coherent, save the player time and remove the need to OCD your way through trash, but also it could play into the gameplay. By using logic and common sense, you could know where to find things in the game-world without the game telling you (e.g. baking ingredients in kitchen cupboards, disguise clothes in bedroom closets, etc) and use this in your solutions to quests.

 

[Mustawd]

The only thing I don't understand about RPGs is:

1) why do I have to loot every cupboard in the city?

This is actually an interesting point. Most RPGs have a shit-ton of cupboards, chests, drawers, boxes, bags, etc lying around, containing everything from valuable equipment to trash. RPG players have been conditioned to search through them, and even when I was a high level character in New Vegas, for example, loaded with more weapons, ammo and items than I could ever need, I still often found myself instinctively rifling through desks and drawers. Is this a valuable mechanic that the genre should keep or an obsolete holdover from older games?

At the very least it provides LARPING opportunities. Especially if your PCs are of a certain background/alignment/etc. Personally, I like how the old (post Exile) Avernum games handled loot/containers/stealing: If you were caught = reputation loss; Some chests had some really nasty traps and, finally, the game would automatically lower your rep if your action was egregious enough (aka stealing an entire town's supplies of XYZ).

It also reminds me a bit of the first MMO I ever played (one of four I really enjoyed): Ultima Online. It had real pickpocketing from NPCs and PCs alike...true Real World feeling for sure.

 

[mondblut]

67% of the codex is doing what the codex does: Talk about interesting RPGs.

...what?

 

[Mustawd]

67% of the codex is doing what the codex does: Talk about interesting RPGs.

...what?

Obviously you can't into made up statistics. It's ok...just watch like a week of cable news and you'll get it.

 

[Hobo Elf]

OP is probably just playing games he doesn't like. Sometimes I feel like I have no patience for long RPGs, then a really good one comes out and proves me wrong. My only conclusion can be that the game I had no patience for was just shit.

 

[commie]

Rarely do I hear a Looking Glass game mentioned, much less a new Deus Ex, or System Shock 2, and even then, only in passing. Elder Scrolls series seems to put everybody off. Dark Souls got brief waves, and even Witcher undergoes heavy waves of criticism despite fanboys. Yet nobody would dispute Fallout 1-2, and given the choice, I think most players here would prefer a new Jagged Alliance, or Wasteland, or Original Sin sequel, than a new Underworld, even if it was done properly gauging by the number of comments.

Give them first person, or real time, and it's OH GAWD NO! Especially if there's no dialogue, or minimalistic dialogue with few choices.

What crap are you talking about? There's a constant stream of LGS threads, Thief threads etc here. The thing is that these games aren't specifically RPG's and so talk of them is mostly relegated to the GG section.

There's also a lot of talk of Underworld III(Arx Fatalis) and pining for more of the same.

Evey game gets criticised here yet once you look past the crap KKK harvesters, you'll see that games like Witcher are supported by many and often a majority. Hell, take a look at the earlier threads about the 'maligned' Witcher 2 combat and you'll find that a lot of those that later would come out with phrases like "rolling simulator LOL" actually were praising the combat difficulty and even complaining that the game was too hard! That the Witcher 2 ended up having a pretty exploitable combat system is a separate criticism that wasn't originally apparent and so it's only in retrospect that it looks like the Codex 'hated' it always when orginally there was praise for the game from most quarters.

ES puts people off because apart from a couple of entries, the games are staggeringly deficient as RPG's with idiotic mechanics and cut pasta exploration. Redemption only comes with mods and only then partway. When Obsidian made F:NV it garnered a lot of acclaim here precisely because it didn't for the most part fall in the same traps. So how does that fit with your 'theory' that Codexers like only spreadsheets?

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Sorry to say this, but the "short attention span generation" had it right in a way, even if we bearded grogs didnt want to admit it - if you want to tell me a great story, go write a fucking book. In my videogame I want to be engaged in mechanics/tactics/decision-making 110% of the time, I want to back off from it in the end of the day completely exhausted as if my brain was raped again and again by the AI.

So, Planescape Torment, I loved you with all my heart, but dont ever want to see you again.

What you said makes no sense, short attention span generation hates complex mechanics and tactics as well, they want gaming equivalents of Michael Bay movies (lot of cutscenes and explosions, little actual gameplay).

As for PST, in addition to great writing/plot it also has interesting world to explore, multiple solutions to quests and numerous attribute checks, great itemization that breaks away from genre traditions, unique game mechanics where dying is sometimes crucial to solving quests, great graphics and sound/music etc.

PST does take advantage of the medium's strengths (far more than most modern games) and certainly wouldn't be better off as a novel, it's just something that people with shit taste parrot all the time. Overall, there's nothing wrong with text heavy games or the ones that rely on environmental storytelling, it's all about the execution.

 

[HiddenX]

In other news:
The Guardian - Does it matter if people don’t finish games any more?

 

[Xathrodox86]

I know that feel and I blame FPS games obviously. When I was younger I loved to play all sorts of cRPG's and finished most of the one's that I've started. Then I moved out from my folks, got a job and a girl and suddendly the time became an issue. So instead of playing the new and immersive RPG, I've opted for a quick game of CoD or BF or some other FPS. Now I'm trying to get back to the RPG genre and it's going rather well, but... sometimes I wish I had more time.

 

[Mustawd]

... sometimes I wish I had more time.

 

[Leitz]

We have some fresh account




Welcome to the Codex.

Seriously. As if people have no use for their time other than to get butthurt on how I spend my 10 minute breaks during work to check email and post something every now and then.

EDIT: this thread is now about how Leitz is obsessed with my free time. Mods, please change title accordingly. K thanks.

You want to play games now? Oh wait, I forgot you have no time for this, right.

On May 17th, 2015, a Sunday you wrote 9 comments on this forum. You had to read through a lot of stuff to do this, right? Had some leisure time on your hand, huh? What happened with your dense lifestyle, pal?

I don't envy you old people who have to cope with all that: your family, your beautiful wife, your hobbies, friends, games. I assume you woke up in the morning, sent your five kids to the neighbor and your wife to her "hairstylist"...Jamal, so you finally had some time for yourself. This day you were done with your studies of russian and astro physics and finally, finally you could start your shitpost frenzy again. Maybe, just maybe there was even a minute or two to play a game, humble as you are.
No, I really don't envy you old guys. You have my empathy.

 

[SophosTheWise]

Tl;DR - Don't judge me cuz my life is busy as shit as busy as that of any other person with a job and family, and it's harder for me to find the time to enjoy good RPGs prioritize my time. At least I'm able to play some incline, even if it's not a 100+ hr epic use it as a shield against criticism.

Seriously, I will gladly judge the hell out of you --- you won't care (presumably) and I get to feel morally superior, which makes for a nice egoboost once in a while. Just two remarks:

1) It's "RPG codex - doesn't scale to your level", not "RPG codex - we accept each other's shortcomings".

- Shortcomings in playing games
- feeling morally superior because one has played more games
- getting an egoboost because one has played something that another one hasn't

 

[Mustawd]

We have some fresh account




Welcome to the Codex.

Seriously. As if people have no use for their time other than to get butthurt on how I spend my 10 minute breaks during work to check email and post something every now and then.

EDIT: this thread is now about how Leitz is obsessed with my free time. Mods, please change title accordingly. K thanks.

You want to play games now? Oh wait, I forgot you have no time for this, right.

On May 17th, 2015, a Sunday you wrote 9 comments on this forum. You had to read through a lot of stuff to do this, right? Had some leisure time on your hand, huh? What happened with your dense lifestyle, pal?

I don't envy you old people who have to cope with all that: your family, your beautiful wife, your hobbies, friends, games. I assume you woke up in the morning, sent your five kids to the neighbor and your wife to her "hairstylist"...Jamal, so you finally had some time for yourself. This day you were done with your studies of russian and astro physics and finally, finally you could start your shitpost frenzy again. Maybe, just maybe there was even a minute or two to play a game, humble as you are.
No, I really don't envy you old guys. You have my empathy.

Leitz, why are you so obsessed with my free time?

Tell u what...I'll give you a breakdown of my day today cuz I know you're interested:

1. Get showered and shaved
2. Go get suit altered as I have interviews coming up
3. Laundry
4. Mall to buy some clothes (work and casual)
5. Work a few hours
6. Research companies I have interviews with (aka read their 10k, 10Q, and last two earnings releases)
7. Post on RPG codex
8. Play 1hr of video games
9. Family time

There. That should make u feel better :D

 

[adddeed]

My take on it is this: I would prefer RPGs to have logical containers, in other words they would contain stuff that's in line with where they are, what kind of container they are, and common sense. And then, this would be used by the game in organic ways. So for example, a cupboard in somebody's apartment is only going to contain mundane everyday stuff, a safe might contain money, a high end metal chest in a rich mansion could contain some really valuable stuff, a locker in a military base would contain weapons, and so on. This would make the world richer and more coherent, save the player time and remove the need to OCD your way through trash, but also it could play into the gameplay. By using logic and common sense, you could know where to find things in the game-world without the game telling you (e.g. baking ingredients in kitchen cupboards, disguise clothes in bedroom closets, etc) and use this in your solutions to quests.

Most RPGs are already like that though.

One thing I like about the recent Shadowrun games is that there is virtually no loot and no containers to open up, and no inventory management to worry about. Not that I don't like these things, but its cool to just focus on the combat and story.

 

[Silva]

....but then there is the slow map traversing and the huge wall of texts and the fake-choices and the shallow combat and the retarded matrix. In other words, ita shit.

Underrail, even with the slower turtle steps, is a much better game by the simple fact its mechanics are sound, instead of half-assed like Shadowrun Returns and Dragonfall one.

 

[Ellef]

i'll say it again, play some roguelikes if you want to cut out all the crap for a while!

....but then there is the slow map traversing and the huge wall of texts and the fake-choices and the shallow combat and the retarded matrix. In other words, ita shit.

Underrail, even with the slower turtle steps, is a much better game by the simple fact its mechanics are sound, instead of half-assed like Shadowrun Returns and Dragonfall one.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

I have a 4 month old pup and have zero time lately for Gaming.

 

[Pots Talos]

Leitz, why are you so obsessed with my free time?

Tell u what...I'll give you a breakdown of my day today cuz I know you're interested:

1. Get showered and shaved
2. Go get suit altered as I have interviews coming up
3. Laundry
4. Mall to buy some clothes (work and casual)
5. Work a few hours
6. Research companies I have interviews with (aka read their 10k, 10Q, and last two earnings releases)
7. Post on RPG codex
8. Play 1hr of video games
9. Family time

There. That should make u feel better :D

Shouldn't your wife be handling 3 and 4?

 

[Soph]

Just smoke some weed, tends to make you more patient. It will also give you more time due to forgetting work, neglecting the wife and all the other mumbo jumbo eating up your gaming time. Oh and if you're lucky you'll yearn for a feast right after smoking, which consequentially makes you be able to game longer without taking a break later.