I have no patience for RPGs anymore

[Melcar]

Nowadays I just simply have no time. I have turned into a poor Mexican, so my time is spent working for money. At the end of the day I rather get a whore than sit in front of my PC playing a modern RPG. Sad. Still, I say it's not entirely lifestyle. The last game I dared to spend hours upon hours was Fallout 2, and I still play my old titles in nonstop fashion (often neglecting my real life duties). It's just that most of the new games I have are like a chore to play.

 

[Vikter]

I think every RPG should overhype itself years before launch, and then show some tits and cool trailers so that even if it's shit during the first 10 hours, you will get all excited and hyped. If you don't know how fun it will be after you spend time yourself, it's hard to have patience for it.

 

[belowmecoldhands]

I think a lot of this is overblown. I played Eschalon and didn't have trouble with its movement, even though many complained about it. Not to say I didn't complain about some things, I did. But for me it was the anti-climactic end and a couple stupid quest design things. By this I mean the way to advance a qeust was stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupppppiiiiiiiiidddddddd.

Btw Eschalon did have teleporting to key locations, but not to everywhere. So sometimes you did retrace your steps. I'm assuming that's where the complaints originate. Otherwise, you wouldn't want to move fast through a place you haven't visited before, generally. This can be for a variety of reasons. It's jut funner to absorb it then to skip it.

I find I often lean towards the "immersion" side of things. People who want hings fast and convenient are usually on the oposite side, argyuing with me or not agreeing. I'd say most players are on the other side, since most I meet want convenience.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Eschalon had ZERO movement speed issues if you selected GL renderer instead of directdraw.

 

[belowmecoldhands]

Eschalon had ZERO movement speed issues if you selected GL renderer instead of directdraw.

I'm talking about Eschalon Book I. They made changes to movement in II, but players still complaint about it.

EDIT: Something like 80% faster in Book II. Still not fast enough.

 

[Leitz]

At the end of the day, it's not RPGs that are at fault here IMO. It's just that many of our lifestyles don't really match up with how these games are structured. For example, I might have an hour once a day, three times a week to play the game. In a deep, complex, and great incline RPG like Underrail, maybe it takes me 5-7 mins to remember what I had done last time...where the story is, etc. Ok, great, so I realize i need to talk to 3 or 4 NPCs, so that's an additional 10 mins. So far 17 mins have passe. then I double check equipment, make sure I sold everything I need to sell, buy everything I need to buy; another 5-7 mins.
[...]
Then you wonder why people like Tim Cain have AAA popamole games in their most played Steam library. It's not the game's fault. It's just that a proper RPG needs time..something that's less in supply when you're a bit older...

I guess what I'm trying to say is "fuck getting old"...

So that's why you've made over 300 posts on this forum since January 2015? Because you have soooo much to do? Seriously, people like you make me mad. Maybe you old guys just have to stop browsing forums about games if you have sooooo much to do in your lifestyle. Maybe you elderly farts had more time then. Ever thought about that?

P.S. If you write all these comments at work then to hell with you and your lifestyle.

 

[belowmecoldhands]

Idk. I think we all just step back a bit and realize we're all different and should just stop arguing. I know I get involved ina rguments and should just stop. At the end of the day, I have games to play and they have games to play.

PST is a great example. I HATED that game. The dialogues killed it for me. I wanted more combat.

Who cares? I just won't play PST, even though some people think it's the best game ever made.

If you don't feed the hate you can just live and let live. The hate is temporary good, bad longterm.

EDIT: Want to add time doesn't always matter. Some people here make the argument because some people have less time they need a casual or lite game. Thing is, I have a friend who has all the time in the world and yet she likes to turn on god mode in RPGs. Cheats and plays casually even if plays 10 hours straight. The opposite of a hardcore, yet plays long hours. How do you explain that? I know I'm not like that. When I was younger, I never used god mode. I never cheated. I hated those things. I played hard. Died over and over and over. I know me and my friend are different. It has nothing to do with time.

I've known people who work long weeks and yet still play harsh games and like it. You may think they don't exist, but they do. It's an oxymoron. Someone who has less time, liking a game which beats the s*** out of them? Or someone who might prefer a game which has long travel times, despite not having much time to play? It seems contradictory, but it exists.

Don't focus on the time. It's hte person. And just because they like a different game or seem to be "casual" doesn't mean they're less legitimate. That's what they want. They pay for it. Leave them alone. (I don't argue with her, btw.)

 

[pakoito]

We have some fresh account




Welcome to the Codex.

 

[Mustawd]

At the end of the day, it's not RPGs that are at fault here IMO. It's just that many of our lifestyles don't really match up with how these games are structured. For example, I might have an hour once a day, three times a week to play the game. In a deep, complex, and great incline RPG like Underrail, maybe it takes me 5-7 mins to remember what I had done last time...where the story is, etc. Ok, great, so I realize i need to talk to 3 or 4 NPCs, so that's an additional 10 mins. So far 17 mins have passe. then I double check equipment, make sure I sold everything I need to sell, buy everything I need to buy; another 5-7 mins.
[...]
Then you wonder why people like Tim Cain have AAA popamole games in their most played Steam library. It's not the game's fault. It's just that a proper RPG needs time..something that's less in supply when you're a bit older...

I guess what I'm trying to say is "fuck getting old"...

So that's why you've made over 300 posts on this forum since January 2015? Because you have soooo much to do? Seriously, people like you make me mad. Maybe you old guys just have to stop browsing forums about games if you have sooooo much to do in your lifestyle. Maybe you elderly farts had more time then. Ever thought about that?

P.S. If you write all these comments at work then to hell with you and your lifestyle.

K'

 

[Melcar]

More like Musturd.

 

[Mustawd]

We have some fresh account




Welcome to the Codex.

Seriously. As if people have no use for their time other than to get butthurt on how I spend my 10 minute breaks during work to check email and post something every now and then.

 

[Mustawd]

More like Musturd.

Zing

EDIT: this thread is now about how Leitz is obsessed with my free time. Mods, please change title accordingly. K thanks.

 

[Mangoose]

Have you played KotC? Slickest game ever because of, well, just good UI and hotkeys, very easy access to hotkey info (an overlay that doesn't block anything). It's the same fucking mechanics as TOEE but no need for dumb radial expanding menu and shitty cursor position definition. IIRC completely playable with just keyboard.

 

[Mustawd]

Have you played KotC? Slickest game ever because of, well, just good UI and hotkeys, very easy access to hotkey info (an overlay that doesn't block anything). It's the same fucking mechanics as TOEE but no need for dumb radial expanding menu and shitty cursor position definition. IIRC completely playable with just keyboard.

Keep hearing about KOTC. Should check it out once my Steam library is cleared in 2020.

 

[TedNugent]

The only thing I don't understand about RPGs is:

1) why do I have to loot every cupboard in the city?

2) why does the hero always start at level 1, even in sequels?

Why don't roleplaying games ever try to give you a unique set of skillsets that you can choose from at the very beginning so that you don't have to grind your way into a specialization?

 

[AetherVagrant]

Playing UnderRail for the first time.

1. What an atmosphere! what cool little graphics! What moody sounds!
2. Damn the guy is too slow.. where is the run button ... fuck there is no run button
3. fuck, why dont the screens transition directly ? I have to wait this slow fade out.
4. Hey! Beardy dude by the crossroads is cool. Seems like someone avatar on the codex
5. what a moody exploration! Im excited! all those derelict stations and all
6. OH COME ON, no fast travel ?? I must traverse all these maps back in turtle steps !?
7. Ok, first mission is over. Now I must capture some little dogs.
8. FUUUUCK! MAPS TOO BIG! TURTLE STEPS AGAAAAAIN!!!!
9 quit
?

6) There is fast travel...but it's Morrowind-style. Many major locations have some way to shortcut between them. some of them are in the open like ferrymen, and some are passages that you can open up at some point later.

2) Everyone including myself seems to bitch about no run button. the one concession to that so far is there are boots that increase your movement speed, and they become available pretty early in the game. you can get a 20-30% boost in walking speed within the first 4 hrs if you find/make them.

5) The location do get more varied and interesting visually, despite the still limited palette and animations.

I was in the same boat the first few hours of playing it, and i scrapped several builds. but after reading about some people's experience i gave it a little more patience and it's become my favorite rpg of the year. I love games like Skyrim, Dishonored, Bioshock, Mass Effect and their ilk, and I have definitely noticed that they have reconditioned me and made me more desirous of a certain immediate satisfaction. Some of these games ARE worth deconditioning for a few hours and giving them time to grow, without needing to be some old troglodyte yelling at youngsters about when they walked 100 miles through the snows of Hammerfell in 1996.
Read some build guides, i found the pure psi approach suits me the best as it streamlines worrying about shit like ammo and different weapons, and i prioritized getting some boots with increased movement speed asap, and if found the game much more enjoyable with a more knowledgeable playthrough. maybe it sucks to need metaknowledge to enjoy a game; but i realize i wouldve shit bricks 15 years ago to have this game and i realize the difference is me, not the game.

 

[Ashenai]

The only thing I don't understand about RPGs is:

1) why do I have to loot every cupboard in the city?

I dunno, because you have OCD I guess? You don't have to. I don't know of a single RPG where you find critical or even very necessary items in the cupboards of random villagers. What you generally find is low-value vendor trash.

2) why does the hero always start at level 1, even in sequels?

In Baldur's Gate 2 you start around level 7, and around level 18 for Throne of Bhaal. In Wizardry 8 you only start at level 1 if it's your first game; if you import a party from Wizardry 7 you start at level 5. Eye of the Beholder 2 and 3 also start you at higher levels, and let you carry over parties from previous games.

Why don't roleplaying games ever try to give you a unique set of skillsets that you can choose from at the very beginning so that you don't have to grind your way into a specialization?

What the fuck. Have you seriously never played a class-based RPG? Most of them front-load most of your specialization. It's not like your Level 1 Paladin is just like your Level 1 Mage and then they only become different as they gain levels.

 

[AetherVagrant]

For game speed issues download Cheat Engine and bind some keys to speedhacks. I have NUM 1 at +25%, NUM 2 at +50%, NUM 3 at +100%. Use it on probably 33-50% of the games I play.

aw crap. I'll feel like a dirty cheater, but this would eliminate at least 50% of the times i quit and decide to come back in a day or two after playing something with a sense of speed. now if i could find and repair a bicycle, make an old car run with my psi powers id just masturbate to this game instead of porn./

totally imagine an Earthbound-style bicycle. including rocks making you fly over the handlebars

 

[TedNugent]

I dunno, because you have OCD I guess? You don't have to. I don't know of a single RPG where you find critical or even very necessary items in the cupboards of random villagers. What you generally find is low-value vendor trash.

Not necessarily true, in Baldurs Gate 1 you can find Ankheg armor sitting in a random field, rings of protection, etc sitting in random crates. In TW3 I am routinely finding critical crafting ingredients or patterns in random caves, or useful patterns (for instance oil patterns) in random bags and cupboards.

In Baldur's Gate 2 you start around level 7, and around level 18 for Throne of Bhaal. In Wizardry 8 you only start at level 1 if it's your first game; if you import a party from Wizardry 7 you start at level 5. Eye of the Beholder 2 and 3 also start you at higher levels, and let you carry over parties from previous games.

Modern games should do this as well.

 

[Azarkon]

You either die an oldschool fan or live long enough to see yourself become poppamole.

 

[Silva]

Lots of good answers here. Its nice to see Im not alone in this.

I just would like to reinforce that my problem is not with UnderRail per se, but with tropes from the genre that I feel are outdated. I know this is a pretty subjective and taste-based thing, but the older I get the more convinced I am that the electronic gaming medium wasnt conceived to convey passive experiences. Let those kind for the books and cinema. Thats why I find Dark Souls so brilliant - because it conveys story and setting through actual gameplay, and not through static, huge walls of texts. And even when it do make use of text (like on items descriptions) its concise and to the point, rarelly using more than a couple lines of fluff. More importantly, it keeps the experience firmly focused on the gameplay, a very proactive gameplay, where youre always tense on your sit pondering about (hard) choices and completely drowned in its mechanics.

Sorry to say this, but the "short attention span generation" had it right in a way, even if we bearded grogs didnt want to admit it - if you want to tell me a great story, go write a fucking book. In my videogame I want to be engaged in mechanics/tactics/decision-making 110% of the time, I want to back off from it in the end of the day completely exhausted as if my brain was raped again and again by the AI.

So, Planescape Torment, I loved you with all my heart, but dont ever want to see you again.


P.S: Btw, I just finished "Invisible Inc" for the second time and in some ways this is the perfect example of game classical RPGs should learn some lessons from - there is no "fat" in here. You finish its campaign after half-dozen missions, 5 hours or so. Each choice you take affects the campaign in significant ways. And its pretty replayable due to procedurelly generated content. Now of course it has its flaws - it gets repetitive sometimes, and its scope is arguably too narrow. Its far from being the perfect game, but it does point to the right direction IMO. (had a similar experience with Metal Gear V: Ground Zeroes, by the way - a fast, replayable/sandboxy and fun little game)

P.S²: and thats why I couldnt tolerate the new Shadowrun games by Harebrained Schemes even if Im fanatic for the tabletop and the SEGA Genesis and SNES videogames: Returns and Dragonfall sell themselves as old-school but are full of the WRONG elements of old-school, the exact ones that are outdated and should burn in a fire - the slow traversing in and out of maps, the inane combats, the huge walls of texts, the ilusionism/false-choices, etc. On top of that, its mechanics and AI are so shallow it hurts. Whats the point of playing these games again ???????????????????? TO LARP all my way up to finish ? Sorry, Im too old for that, If I want to LARP I will play the tabletop version, where I will be engaging in funny jokes and pizza with buddies for 4 hours and go back home to bang my wife and play with kids; no need to stand 30 hours of inane passive content just for LARP.

 

[Ellef]

Sounds like you need more roguelikes in your life. Many like DCSS even have instant auto walk features that don't stop until you see something relevant.

 

[AetherVagrant]

Silva:
Both your points and grognards' are correct. We have been conditioned to expect certain things, just like moviegoers. Not everything that needs patience deserves it. Which is why i appreciate being able to stalk people with similar taste but more time or patience to weed through the chaff for me, because without Underrails or AOD community i would have dismissed them straightaway.
soon there will be no AAA RPGs. there will just be games that utilize elements that we have always enjoyed, and some of those games will appeal to some of us...and others to none of us.

and roguelikes: ive dabbled in every genre, but roguelikes have been one of those i can never get into. its not even the graphics as ill play text adventures or ultima 5. but i dont like systems for systems sake, i feel like good systems are there to serve a higher purpose, and arent gameplay in and of themselves (outside of pinball/pong/asteroids-type gameplay)

 

[Siobhan]

Some of the answers in this thread are pretty pathetic annoying. I agree that RPGs are notoriously padded, but don't use your age as an excuse for your popamole tastes. Yes, life gets more complicated when you get older and you have less time for your hobbies. But it's simple: if you care, you will make time. If you don't, just drop the hobby rather than half-assing it like a mid-tier manager who plays a game of tennis once a month.

It took me over half a year to finish MM6 because it's the type of game that you need to spend at least three or four hours on per session if you want to get anything signficant done, and I rarely have that much time left in a day. It boiled down to a simple question: is this game fun enough to be worth the scheduling hassle? And guess what, the fact that it took a lot of dedication to finish made it all the more rewarding, and it motivated me to try the same with Wizardry 8, which is now one of my top 5 RPGs.

Accept the fact that you have less time, evaluate your priorities accordingly, and then act on them. If that means dropping certain genres, fine. Just don't whine to the world about the fact that you don't care enough to make it work.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Have you played KotC? Slickest game ever because of, well, just good UI and hotkeys, very easy access to hotkey info (an overlay that doesn't block anything). It's the same fucking mechanics as TOEE but no need for dumb radial expanding menu and shitty cursor position definition. IIRC completely playable with just keyboard.

Plus grappling.